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InvisibleCrasher
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Scary thoughts on hell
    #319694 - 05/18/01 05:30 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I think, that just maybe, we are already in hell. (not really, but more of a what if). This is my description of hell. You are born into hell, not realizing that you're in hell. You are raised, believing that you will either go to hell, or heaven. You spend your life trying to be good, so you won't spend the rest of your eternity in hell. But you're already there and you don't know it. So you die, and instead of heaven, you start over again, not knowing where you are (still in hell). And this is eternity. Being born, and trying to escape a place you don't even know you're stuck in. dying, and doing it over and over again, never grasping the fact that you're already in hell. That my friends, is the worst thing i can imagine hell being

Nothing of what I say is a personal matter. All cultivation questions are on behalf of counterparts who risk growing. I take no responsibility in being the messenger.


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Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...


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Offlineque
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #319803 - 05/18/01 08:16 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

or....

"Down through circles and trenches. Down and down into the screaming rock and the molten flesh of Hell.

"Down where lovers, who have promised never to part, are fused together in a tangle of shrieking flesh. Towering, selfless love turned into hate and madness.

"Down through infinite arctic wastes where people wander alone and naked and freezing, never reaching any destination.

"Through the streets of suffering cities where the stones of the houses bleed and beg forgiveness. Where taps drip and fires don't light and hearts burn endlessly,

"Where men and women are made monstrously huge. Bodies so big they cannot move. They can only scream and cry out as other damned creatures burrow and build in their flesh.

"Down and down.

"And down through the pointless grinding banality of Hell."




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Invisibleshroom-girlie
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #319819 - 05/18/01 08:35 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I think that your thinking is correct. This world is probably another planets hell. If you believe in reincarnation then this will make sense.



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"Express yourself completely then become quiet."


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Offline~`Tursiops truncatus`~
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: shroom-girlie]
    #319915 - 05/18/01 12:21 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

That's an interesting concept, but what would if any be the way to asend out of this ''hell"



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OfflineMind Mage
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #319938 - 05/18/01 01:48 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I find it interisting that sp far all the post think of hell as having some content. I think that being in a place of nothing for eternity would be more of a hell.... just you... no body... no blackness... no nothing just your "ego" ''soul' "spirit" or what ever you consider the core of what you are. Personaly if I had to choose I'd pick burning for eternity than nothing, at least then you have some thing. "god' once had nothing... I don't think he liked it very much, that would be a good reason to create every thing. :wink:

. .  .  .    .    .      .      .        .        .          .          .


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. . . . . . . . . . . .


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OfflineChonger
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Mind Mage]
    #319946 - 05/18/01 02:17 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I dont really beleive in heaven or hell. The reason being, is I beleive there exists all levels of "heaven's characteristics" and "hells Characteristics" and everywhere in between.
What gets me most is that people think when you die you will be judged upon the deeds you committed in life and sent to either destination. I think this is particularly a load of crap because what about people who were reeeaally good, never even thought a bad thought and went to heaven as did a person who wasn't exactly good, but still just about managed to get into heaven. That wouldn't be fair on the really good person then, because they would not be rewarded anymore than the other guy.

I think both places are just states of mind, and we have the power to choose our eternal resting place, or choose to be reincarnated whever we like......




Peaceful Pussycat


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I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than have a frontal lobotomy


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Anonymous

Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Chonger]
    #319955 - 05/18/01 03:00 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I don't really believe in either Heaven nor Hell in the typical sense.
But, one interesting philosophy I heard several years ago really stuck with. This is all based on what one rather intelligent person told me who claimed he had done the research on it (he didn't formulate the idea, but he confirmed it). Parts are based soley on assumption, other parts he acted as tho metaphysics, quantumphysics, whatever allowed for it/confirmed it. If I mess parts up, sorry, the memory is rusty...
There are an infinite number of dimensions basically identical to our own. Except on one "end" every single choice made by every single individual there was the "right" one. This place is heaven. Right next door is a dimension identical in all ways, except that one "wrong" decision was made. Each following dimension had one more "wrong" choice made until you get to the realm where every choice was "wrong" and that is hell. I can't remember any more details (it's a shame, because there was some really sound logic behind it).
I'll try to get in touch with Ian for more info, but has anybody else heard anything similar?? When it was fresh in my mind, it made a hell of a lot of sense.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thoughts follow my vision and dance in the sun


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Offlinegribochek
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: ]
    #319989 - 05/18/01 04:32 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Peachman, when you say "right" decision and "wrong" decision, what do the words "right" and "wrong" signify? "Right" and "wrong" for what?



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Offlineque
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: ]
    #320044 - 05/18/01 06:52 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

peachman...sound like your friend has a good grasp on the subject IMO....except you mentioned "right next door is the identical..." this gets to be a bit confusing whereas I see it as identical yet opposite(?) if that makes any sense....

take christians' 10 commandments 'thou shalt not kill" (no shit huh!!) if one kills thier mind/spirit/soul is going to be undoubtedly in a funky place. Moreso than after life(?) I think we place ourselves in heaven/hell moment to moment in this life, kinda like being mentally in a really bad neiborhood/place (ie drugs,guns,death all around) as opposed to serene/peacefull placement. Spirit following mind/body actions and visa-versa, proper placement on all levels equates to heavenly bliss.....

As to it being eternal afterlife personally I think its more of a dis-embodied review of last life,rolling right on back to try again with a bit more knowledge than previous. Not to say your going to only focus on improving, perhaps flawed somehow and need to come back as even more of a fuck up to lead to eventual demise......

Most theries of mainstream religion are mearly scare tactics, pathetic IMO to teach children 'do right or eternally burn in hell'......



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Offlineque
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #320050 - 05/18/01 06:59 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

o-yea as to the origional ques? I think you put yourself in heaven or hell at the present moment....and to put yourself in heaven is kinda bucking tthe trend so for majority I would have to agree. This is why IMO plant/fungi techers can be usefull in life. Try naturally duplicate those moments of bliss.....thats what its all about cuz it just don't work to be high all the time, its about remembering! Here and there...from one life to the next.....



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InvisiblePsilosopher
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #320349 - 05/19/01 02:41 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting thought.  Know much about buddhism?  It basically states the same about how life is an endless cycle of birth and rebirth, and every time suffering is involved.  This cycle may only be broken through enlightenment, and reaching nirvana (or paranirvana, i forgot which one;))




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Anonymous

Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #320582 - 05/19/01 08:21 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I believe we create our own hell. I agree to an extent that this plane that we live on resembles hell.
We have the ability to choose our own destiny. That is the greatest gift humans have been given - Free will.
If you choose to live your life with hatred, contempt, self-degrading thoughts, etc etc.... then I believe you are living in hell, creating it for yourself.
However you can choose another way and live life to its fullest, experiencing everything you can, with infinite love for all things.
Though I know that when a person dies, and is still stuck in the physical world, they will continue living there until they are shown another way out. A spiritual being that still thinks it is in the physical world is a nightmare in itself. This can happen when people die suddenly, or are so attached to the physical world they just can't let go. After they die, they don't realize they have left the physical world, and continue doing the things they did in life, perhaps reliving the same day of their death over and over again. That is hell in my book.



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Offlinefun_guy
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #320733 - 05/19/01 03:01 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I think that people can apply an interpretation of hell onto any horrible situation, such as that you described, or various ideas from throughout history. For example, I think it was an ancient Greek or Roman vision of hell that involved a group of people sitting round a banquet table loaded with good grub. Each person was tied to a long firk that was longer than their own arms. The vision of heaven was identical in every way except that in hell they could never get the food to their mouths because the forks were too long. In heaven, they had the same forks but they were feeding each other.

I think that's quite neat, but as with other interpretations, it's just a metaphor. I don't think we humans can conceive of what hell or heaven are. That said, it *is* interesting to speculate!



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"Right now I am lying to you"


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Offlineque
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Psilosopher]
    #321298 - 05/20/01 07:37 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Buddhism...naaa not really i've mostly done my own footwork and visions tell the stories...limited reading..(dying a few times helps a lot too;)..visions with a bit less color and flair than this one...but i believe this recent tale has some content? you tell me? it will sometimes take months to put these together ...still unsure as to many?


....sliding down a shattered prismatic multi-colored neon tube into a hall with eyes coming to a rift out of catacombs of egyptian bird-headed gods and staring into the faces of thingys you usually only catch a glimpse of out of the corner of your eye I found it!! the interworkings! but of what? like the inside of a watch all gears layered in a proto-plasmisic green neon gel....the smooth running of this hyperspacial clockworks is due to the great effort of elves, slipping and sliding up, down and inbetween all the parts. I was told what it all meant in great detail, too great of detail, i could not understand?
everything went dark, dark and foreboding....
I now found myself in front of huge gates with the fires of hell licking through the cracks....out of curiosity i asked for entrance?....denied!....my curiosity grew more, now i found myself begging on my hands and knees ' I MUST KNOW!!!'....a huge booming voice shook me....."YOU ARE PLACED IN THE BLISSFULL INTERWORKINGS OF THE UNIVERSE THAT MANY CALL HEAVEN WITHOUT SO MUCH AS A SLIGHT REQUEST AND NOW YOU ARE ON YOUR HANDS AND KNEE'S BEGGING TO ENTER THE GATES OF HELL!?!?!?!?!.....STUPID HUMANS!!! HAHAHAHAHA.....
I was thrust back to the elf filled world of oz feeling qute stupid....thinking "i've been duped".....a small voice answered my thoughts saying..."yes but by whom?"

note:so many, many times have i've been told STUPID HUMANS!!<~alien phrase)
but then again 'WE LIKE YOU'<~elf phrase).....also often mentioned.......




Edited by que on 05/20/01 12:51 AM.



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OfflineVision Quest
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #321368 - 05/20/01 10:03 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting thoughts, man. Here are my beliefs concerning Heaven and Hell.

I think there is no Hell the way most people see it. It makes no sense that God would want to punish souls for "sins" -- things they have done in life -- becuase God wouldn't allow you to do something "wrong." That doesn't mean to me that it is okay to murder or anything radical like that. I don't think you can do something "wrong" or "bad" in God's eyes at all. You can't undermind God and make the whole process or divine plan or whatever not work. I think our universe is God. That is the best scientific understanding at least. I see God as all that exists in the universe, all that we experience.

I still do think there is a Hell though. Many people who see Hell as the place where God sends souls to punish them justify the existence of Hell by describing Hell as the polar opposite of Heaven. If you believe in Heaven then you believe in Hell, because they can't exist without each other. This is entirely true. You can't consider yourself a "good" person unless there are "bad" people for you to compare yourself to. The people who believe in an angry God have failed to prove that Hell is where God sends souls which he has judges as being "bad" within the realm of possibilities that God created for us. I think we all go to the same place, Heaven, after death, and the opposite of Heaven or death is actually life, or incarnation. So, this is Hell. Every day here on earth is a day in Hell.

Hell is actually not very bad at all. I think I like Hell.

PLEASE MAKE THE FUCKING SIGNATURES LONGER. I HAVE A GOOD QUOTE I WANT TO USE!!!


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[red]PLEASE MAKE THE FUCKING SIGNATURES LONGER. I HAVE A GOOD QUOTE I WANT TO USE!!![/red]


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OfflinewhyIdied
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: que]
    #322387 - 05/21/01 09:07 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Que, man; that's some crazy shit! Yes, the interworkings...I've never heard it called that, but it has a nice ring to it...have you ever been to the place where abstract ideas are congregated in groups of grey rooms?

As for hell - it is very important to avoid! It was pretty stupid to want to get in: better to ask for an understanding of it than to be in it - but anyways...
I think hell is actually the reality that some people seriously want to be seperated from God for all eternity. God offers salvation from sin: everybody knows that (Jesus), but some people truly aren't interested in being anywhere near God. Now, since God is the author of all that is existant (the "I AM"), the only "place" He can put those people is a place where existance is as far from itself as possible. It's really hard to write - but the concept I've heard about most is: ETERNAL SEPERATION FROM GOD.

...slow moves, sweet feet...


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...slow moves, sweet feet...


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: whyIdied]
    #323754 - 05/23/01 06:05 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Amartia - 'missing the mark,' in Greek, is the word for 'sin.' Yes, estrangement from God is the standard Christian theological formulation. Hitting the mark, the 'bull's eye' is synonymous with the 'narrow way' to salvation in the Biblical tradition, or 'the razor's edge' in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition. Being left with anything of ourselves in an eternal condition would be Hell. Only That which is transcendental, beyond form, increasingly expansive, increasingly beautiful, ultimately fulfilling, etc., etc. will sustain the ecstasy of Hell's opposite notion. Eye has not seen, nor mind conceived of that glory - but as one can read even at the Shroomery - mind can conceive of very creatively distressing and disgusting Hells. Nightmares, psychotic states, Boschian landscapes, Matrix-like films, Gigeresque aliens and more are easily concocted by our unconscious and very Human imaginations. Ram Dass used to talk about people who went to horror films to experience facsimilie hells. Why? People are already alienated from God, and in that sense, are already experiencing their own private Hells. Movies provide a fanciful visit to other conceptions. Guilt-ridden neurotics who feel that they've not suffered enough create symptoms to punish themselves with. Yesterday I met an Auschwitz survivor who suffers from nightmares still. His pain is not neurotic, it is real. He has experienced Hell-on-Earth more real than anyone else I've met. He has also lost faith in God, in the possibility of transcending suffering (Heaven/Nirvana).
I gave him a business card to do hypnotherapy with him - no fee. I hope he takes me up on it, and I hope that the degree of his pain is not beyond my technical ability to restore to him the means for transcending his Hell. I think this is the Bodhisattva in me, and the meaning of the Catholic doctrine in which Christ 'descended into Hell,' in the creed. Sorry for the ramble, but your theological response got me going.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleG-nome
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #325029 - 05/24/01 08:37 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

My hell will be I'll have a fat blunt and no lighter.

"Getting an inch of snow is like winning ten cents in the lottery." - Calvin


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"Getting an inch of snow is like winning ten cents in the lottery." - Calvin
The Free Spore Ring - the best damn thing since sliced bread?


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #325202 - 05/25/01 12:18 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Do yourself a favor and read the tradeback (full series issue #1-7) of the comic book Johnny The Homicidal Maniac by Jhonen Vasquez. Watch your idea come to life in ink and paper.


Repent! Repent! Floss Often!


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #325305 - 05/25/01 01:59 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Amartia, that corresponds to Dr. Wilhelm Reich's diagnosis that humanity suffers from "pleasure-anixety", an internal fear that causes us to repress our "primary drives" and always substitute "secondary" and "substitute" goals...
Anyways, I think that's great that you've offered your help to the Auschwitz survivor that you've met... My mother is a psychotherapist at a psychiatric ward of a hospital. I'm skeptical if she and her coworkers really are able to offer any help to their patients at all. When she comes home from work, it seems as if a part of her is still there, and the dinner table conversation is full of complaining about the staff psychiatrist, antics of patients, and cynacism - the same with my stepfather, it's their fucked up way of unwinding, and I've always found it kind of distatestful and obnoxious. She generally views her job as boring, although at work she plays quite a role, she's like a totally different person there and her coworkers have this idea that she's some saintly wise person, though at home she's the terribly obsessive-compulsive and anxiety driven. My stepfather watches T.V. the entire evening and my mom sits on the other end of the couch reading a book for the entire night, M-Th ALWAYS (they go out for a beer on Friday) and are in bed by 11 always- conversation is minimal, shallow, and usually cynical and directed towards news programs or whatever new fashion their house needs. It's a small town, so when I'm visiting and we're around town, patients she's had some decade ago will run up to her and hug her and thank her and she's always in a hurry to get away from them pronto. And of course she gets several LSD flip outs a year which has biased her opinion of it(the new flip out drug of choice in this areas is actually a prescription drug opiate derivitive called oxycotin, so she says), and as totally cynical and anxious about me and my drug use and inclination to weird religions (which she inevitably discovered years ago), which sucks because it sure seems like she could use some. Ok, now I'm just rambling, and badmouthing my folks to boot (Sorry ma!). But, my point is that I'm pretty skeptical about modern psychology these days, because the unawakened psychologist can only help the patient substitute his game for that of the psychologists, the psychotherapy is just as high as the psychotherapist. As Ram Dass has said, if the psychotherapist was a Buddha, the patient would achieve enlightenment. So, I just thought that was cool that you offered that guy help for free, sincerity and compassion aren't the social norm in the business... I don't know about myself, having majored in psychology/philosophy... and maybe english... yadayada.. am gonna fair. I'm totally sick of academics, I wanna drop out... maybe find a different alternative school that meets my needs someday. It feels 100% WRONG, the models of achievement, everything... it's no aid to me realizing my own potential. I think my whole motivation towards psychology as an 18 year old kid was over-inflated ideas about my own importance, like i'd be the next Tim Leary, start some kindah revolution. Isn't that terrible?.... I'm thinking of becoming a glassblower and work on other arts-crafts while I teach myself and realize more of my potential.... that is, if my parents don't kill me. Ok, I shut up now... but first, a question: What kind of activities would be good karma yoga for somebody my age? It sure ain't offering advice to people through the shroomery... hahah. Maybe I oughta join the Peace Corps errr sumpthin'....
anyways, be well, peace/cj




Repent! Repent! Floss Often!


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Offlinesir_shroom_alot
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #325571 - 05/25/01 05:53 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

i forgot what i was goingt o say, but it was far greater than anything i have begun to see. By the way i just wanted to mention all my fucking hate for those news bulitons on E! If it was legal u wouldn't get other shit in it! i'm goona fucking blow up!

first u get the money, then u get the Weemen!
Wee men? what the hell are u talking about!
i said woman; no u didn't man!

~Ur PAYING ME IN HAIR CLIPPINGS! WHAT ARE U cRAZY?


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first u get the money, then u get the Weemen!
Wee men? what the hell are u talking about!
i said woman; no u didn't man!

~Ur PAYING ME IN HAIR CLIPPINGS! WHAT ARE U cRAZY?


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OfflineAtticMonkey
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #325615 - 05/25/01 06:48 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I heard a man say one time that if we make it to heaven then this life will be the only hell we'll know, and if we go to hell then this life will be the only heaven we would know. Thats all, take care.

Life Is Like A Plate Of Chitlins, Everythings Just Fine Till You Find Out What Your Eatin!


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Life Is Like A Plate Of Chitlins, Everythings Just Fine Till You Find Out What Your Eatin!


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #325845 - 05/25/01 02:28 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Well, there's a guy I've known since we were 4 years old who is a glassblower in Florida. He has his own technique (melted strands of silver in the glass) for which he is known, and has been successful at it. I don't think there are that many people who can make a sufficient living in that art. My path was an academic one: pre-med>philosophy>theology>developmental/clinical psychology. I found my practical niche in a large school system where I can make 50K for 180 days of work, and the other half a year is MY time. The academic disciplines served as my cocoon from which I emerged rather differently from others in terms of having a cosmic world-view. People ask me what I do and I say that I am blessed to be able to practice Compassion for a living. I don't think your Mom sees it that way or it would permeate the rest of her life. We watched one show - Voyager - per week (I watch X-Files on my own, but it's getting old). Your folks seem sorta like my folks in that eternal TV - sit apart - don't communicate mode. A common enough marital Hell. Stay in school. Why not, it's ALL drama says Ram Dass. That 60's Leary drop out thing didn't work very well. When one comes down (in life) which all highs must, you'll find that air conditioning can be a great blessing, as can sufficient funds to cover the electric bill, and maybe that Tibetan tonka you had your eye on in Snow Lion. You can still say your mantra in the shower, while you take ganga (Om Shiva Shankara Hare Hare Ganja), pray during meals to stay conscious, help others, etc, etc. One can have the best of all worlds in the USA and be liberated. Peace.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinegribochek
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #325872 - 05/25/01 04:39 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I wish I had this kind of contentment...



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Offlineque
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: whyIdied]
    #326020 - 05/26/01 11:20 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

WHYIDIED..."have you ever been to the place where abstract ideas are congregated in groups of grey rooms?"

The grey rooms, yes, I went through this whole series of 'lessons' in this area. I aquired much knowledge from this area, simply amazing, in the span of several months it quite seemed (and still does) that I learned more than all my years combined of conventional 'stuff'. Very intense yet subtle and natural. Entities at first can be quite alarming one needs to get over that and just accept them as teachers but 'don't believe everything you hear'.

It seems somehow there is 'practical knwowledge' which seems (to me) to be like inner earth or underground which deals with the physical world. One such 'dream' in this area delt with entities which control/direct potential and kinetic energy, it was like a factory tour of how all these beings transfered potential energy to the according areas to put to use as kinetic. Now weather one wants to beleive there are actual 'beings' in charge of such things does not matter (i tend to on some level) it is redily transferable to textbook information that I either did not know or did not remember? Either way end result is the same, I will not forget this lesson like so many in a boring classroom.

The energy thing is just a small slice of many strange facets of our reality I've had explained to me in a very non-conventional way by various entities, or just some type of shapeless force that feeds you information.This goes far beyond linguistics in the normal sense,some unique level beyond verbal wereas one would listen. This is more absorbed through many senses.

Practical knowledge from here is very useful for me. It has a kinda 'special clause' attached. When something is learned, such as how to help others (common theme) will be revealed to me in a dramatic manor, either beautiful or terrifying both very captivating with a strong urge to re-experience and/or revisit this area. By 'special clause' I am refering to the fact that if I do not put into motion in the physical world what I have learned I will not return to the area and the vision will not be repeated until I do. This is a nice twist and almost a reward system of joyous bliss providing I do the legwork of putting forth the lesson learned. Unfortunatly I do not have the access to help others on a more professional level such as markthegnostic but I found a unique way of feeding information and healing practices to my physician, in turn helping him help his other patients,me being one of them we can work together on his weak points (usually too much information patient does not understand) and better relaying imformation to others and for me this is therapy...works out well. Ramble,ramble...so anyway yea I then seemingly move up (over,down,to the side?) a level and can re-visit paticular areas, if certain tasks are ignored so is my access.

O yea and as far as it being stupid to want to get into hell you must realize the situation at hand. As marktg mentioned a gravitation to movies with hellish images this is the same thing, not taking things any more serious than watching or not a movie of hell. The heavy voice and inter-cranial bitch-slap was (I think) symbolic of people taking real life not much more seriously than a movie, telling me "wake up this is real life!". This also goes back to previous post of comparison of hev/hel to good/bad/ neiborhoods, in real life I have seen things little more important than the cinema and just working myself into worse and worse spots until your looking down the barrel of a gun and someone is saying "what the fuck you think i'm just playing!!" it was much the same type of non-thought, 'no big deal lets check it out' that lead me to both places.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





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Offlinepan
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Scary thoughts on hell [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #326230 - 05/26/01 08:30 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Really nice,

And so here I was.... many many options (writing/ nursing/ teaching/ more education/ dropping out etc...), total freedom - but t'is but the freedom of an astronaut adrift in space. No chosen path, alas. Wanting to find that karma yoga, that working compassion (while knowing it is only HERE and NOW)
And yet here I also am in Moloch, Babylon, the belly of the beast, where the responsive mind is tossed and turned - especially one without adequate foundation. How to get a foundation? Find a simple practice. How to get a simple practice? Start it HERE and NOW.

I ain't talking no hill of beans, but nice thoughts and words here in the thread relating to where I am so thought I'd add thanks, and also write out what's drifting across my opened mind....

It's just me, all just me, but it ain't half hard to aim that arrow into that bulls eye while Moloch's machinery grunts and shudders all around.

Just another thought...

"If you meet Buddah on the path, kill him"

(Or, well, gag him)

Agree? Disagree?

Namaste,
Pan


(still love the fact that hell is only occupied by those people who consent to being there.)





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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #327949 - 05/28/01 11:59 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

each day i spend a couple hours in old mens' offices swapping high sounding ideas i've collected with the high sounding ideas the professor has collected like baseball cards. quite a game, and my profs. love me for playing, following (under) their footsteps - entertaining each other with mind-games, theory accepted as valid, but practically they do not carry much weight - that is, they don't play intimately into our lives. i don't think many other students do this with their profs., but for me it's the highlight of my day (as far as school goes) - the philosophy professors are a wealth of collected knowledge and i feel like my personality blossoms more around them, because who else can i talk to about the things i learn about? the rest of the world doesn't give a shit! yes, co-dependency for those who worshipped their intellect more than social lives! in a group of normal kids, i have little to talk about but music and art (most of which is shallow talk, nobody invests enough energy into discussions - they're just not as high as one's with the philosophers i enjoy being with, and even they grow tiresome now), so it's more focused on drug use and silliness, playfulness.... sex.

let me let you in on some of the juciest of my academic scandals. tell me, if you can, what in the world is wrong with me?!? 1.) a course in experimental psychology - we had to perform an experiment of our choice and write a research paper, something that would be approved by the A.P.A. good Lord, an opportunity to do something I might find interesting. my paper was titled _The Effects of Music on Perception of Time_ in which I was going to compose several musical pieces and change different variables like tempo, and such, and see what effects it had on one's perception of time . you know, doing t-tests and chi squares and such. i had no time for it, but i had to hand in something. i made up false data and wrote a whole research paper based off it in a couple hours and made an oral presentation. everyone LOVED it, was the most interesting paper in the class. an A, while others who spent the whole quarter working on it got B's and C's.
2.) gender psychology - scenario, 24 girls, female professor, and 1 CJ! i was the male representive for the Gender psychology class. for kicks, as my own psychological experiment, i played it up like i was a stupid, sexist pig (I was heavily involved in theater in high school). well, i never cracked my book open, yet always got the highest grade in the class - usually the second highest grade was 15% or more lower than mine. our final grade was a 5 page mini research paper that was worth 25% of the grade, everyone paired up in groups of 2 except me. i made up this bull shit paper titled Awareness Beyond Gender in under 3 hours, with make-believe interviews, and quotes out of books like The Psychedelic Experience, and books by William James and Abraham Maslow and stuff - I expected to do pretty bad. after turning in my final exam, i cringed as i went up to get my paper - 100%! - the ONLY 100%! the prof. LOVED it and asked to keep my paper - on the paper she asked if i had dosed any of the people who I interviewed! i booked it out of the room while she was talking to somebody else about their paper before she could ask me anything about mine.... can you imagine how many laughs i've gotten out of that, how it shapes my perception of 'the real world', how it would inflate my ego?
3.) social and political philosophy - never read a single text and barely ever went to class, but for god's sake, it's my major - unlike kids who just happen to take a philosophy course to fill some requirement (there are only a handful of philosophy majors), I happened to already understand aristotle, montainge, rousseau, mill, marx, and nietzsche. our final grade was a 10 page paper worth 60% of our grade, comparing 2 of the philosophers. we had 5 weeks to do it. i went to talk to the professor the day before it was due impressing him with all these high sounding ideas from Cosmic Trigger by Bob Wilson because they correspond very well with John Stuart Mill's _On Liberty_, i cut and paste my writing about montaigne from my first paper (worth the other 40%) and checked out a book that is a critique on _On Liberty_, i stayed up that night mostly goofing off and smoking pot and saying goodbye to my friends who were going away for the summer, starting the paper at 2 in the morning and finishing it by noon. final grade - A.
4.) philosophy of Taoism - this professor is my hero, restored any faith in academic philosophy being any good thing - he appeared to be in his 70's and was retired, but came in to teach this one class. he was more energetic than all of our students combined! unfortunately this was his last year teaching, he was moving away (his wife was expecting twins!) this guy was a student of alan watts when he taught at Berkeley, and had lived in china for many years. we would sit and discuss the lao tzu and chuang tzu line by line going around the room getting each class member's interpretation (small class of 15 or so). i turned the guy onto bob wilson's The New Inquistion and Cosmic Trigger!, which he unfortunately lost. anyways, the point is, I loved this guy and me, my prof., and another guy all learned so much from each other (which was what was important - BUT i only did 25% of the coursework, and of the 25% i did, it was only 1 page when it was supposed to be 3-5 pages. well, of course i did great in the class - because we got along so well? because he knew i understood? because it's not my "Way?" who knows?
5.) I had a very cool prof. for Human Biology who I got along so well with - he offered to take me on mushroom hunts, and to show me how to identify ginseng and all sorts of cool things, and had me read great books he like - _The Shaman's Apprentice_ and Abbie Hoffman's _Steal This Book_, and he didn't mind that i missed a big test date to go see ram dass in ann arbor. well, I was using LSD several times a week at the time, and I didn't learn anything in that class, because it required linear thinking which I didn't have time for. I got to take my tests weeks later than other kids, I guess because my prof. just really enjoyed having me in class on the occasions that i attended, I always had interesting input. Even though I deserved an F, I got a C. I retook his class which he was offering online, because i felt guilty about it all, since he was such a great guy and it would be a good opportunity to learn something - he gave me my own unique password deadhead/shaman, and i did end up learning things from school for a change.

6.... I could do this all day, so let's stop.

things i always note..... i come to class with nothing on my mind, when i talk, i'm just talking - my thoughts aren't "my thoughts", they're just thoughts - i have fun with them, i like to explore... i like to go far out, so all eyeballs are on me when i speak, because i do it way different than most people, and my ideas are far out from the norm, but are usually very simple and lucid and appealing. people either LOVE me or HATE me, there's no inbetween or indiference to me entirely, i'm always a spectacle of sorts... i usually end up making friends with the kids in the class who have lots of intelligent opinions and do well and are respected by the professor for some sense of individuality, yet they are prepared and dilligent workers - everything is more important to them, where it's more of a game to me. i end up making friends with the professors of the classes i like very quickly. i usually find their course work to be pretty disappointing, even though the professors are intelligent and friendly, so i find ways to spice it up for myself, usually by doing whatever i want, because i have the ingenuity to make it work... often taking huge risks. in the classes where the professors like me, i obey no rules. deadlines don't apply to me, yet they do for other kids.

this is ridiculous. i'm not doing this for myself at all anymore. it's simply not where my interests lie, and i can't afford to cheat myself out of my entire life. i can't afford to be a little old stuffed-shirt man in a philosophy department for my life. i have to do what i want, i must be entirely self-disciplined. i must be self employed too, this is obvious to me. i'm going to look towards new schools. one that i'm interested in is called Goddard (the band phish went there, trey anastasio did his senior thesis the musical gamehendge there), and there would be no course-work or grades and i would work with advisors to map-out my ciriculum and send them packets of what i've accomplished every so often. i need to re-orientate myself, get myself focused. maybe eventually i'll find a spiritual master. that is training i could use.

Repent! Repent! Floss Often!


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #328084 - 05/29/01 02:45 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

CJ -
Have you read 'The Hamlet Syndrome: Overeducated Who Underachieve' (I think that is the subtitle). There is more than a bit of that in me, and a lot in my lady who is a Cornell graduate with an MBA from U. of Maryland, and a year of law school who sells books at Border for 17K a year. Well, she's gonna need a new job 'cause by the time we get back from Africa this summer, she'll have overstayed her vacation time. She thinks she wants to go into banking all of a sudden (it's gonna be boring for her). Anyway, the Hamlet Syndrome derives from the Jungian descriptions of Puer and Puella Aeternii (eternal youths). She hated the MBA program but decided just to finish. She hated what law school did to her psyche and quit. I hope the hated MBA is able to 'impress' some robot in the banking business to look more closely at Rose's resume, if that's what Rose wants to do. She may have an MBA, but she is not AN MBA. I have a Ph.D from Maryland, but I don't walk through life BEING a Ph.D. like some dandy assistant principal I used to work with (listening to classical FM radio at work and being driven there in a big old Mercedes sedan by his wife. Stodgy, pretentious poseur).
However, my degree did 'impress' those w/o such a degree (it also has gotten clients refunds on airline tickets for mental health reasons, and the occasional restaurant reservation). What a laugh! So? One doesn't exploit oneself or others, but if others take the roles of the Game too seriously, then that's their karmic predicament. Have you read DeRopp's 'The Master Game?,' if not, you'd enjoy it. You've always heard about the Game of Life (even the board game) - well here it is - in your face! And what is your response to your teachers' praise of your 'trickery?'...seems like contempt, digust and willingness to then simply 'drop out' of the game. Hermes-Mercury is the 'trickster' god, youthful like a puer, singularly uninterested in power of all the gods of Olympus. He is the psychopomp - soul-guide; patron god of thieves; father of Pan and of Hermaphrodite; a regular Bugs Bunny.
"Look out 'cause here comes some free advice..." Finish what you began. Start anew with a graduate program. A high school friend went to school in Nebraska and became a dentist. Within a few years, he was driving 18 wheelers for a living. He, however, has options with a DDS while the average truck driver does not. Capiche?



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #328186 - 05/29/01 04:28 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

actually, i'm reading The Master Game right now, and i'm about 80 pages of the way through it. it's some 14 days overdue, which is terrible 'cuz overdue inner-library loans are $.50 a day. but, i'm going to finish it because it's out of print, and i truly have decided to not go back to school at Ohio University. maybe i'll finish it tonight. i also have Foundations of Tibetan Mysctism, by the way, and plan to start that soon too. i'm going to finish up my independent study on mysticism (which has dragged on for 3 quarters) and mail my Taoism professor the work I hadn't completed (which he'll really dig), and then i'm on my way....
Overeducated Who Underachieve. that's interesting, i will check it out. but, i say that i think the whole model of achievement and motivation going around these days in education is completely screwed up. i think the system sucks. the information i'm learning is simply not my field of interest.
my housemate went to my school last year starting as a freshman majoring in theater. he dropped out, because he felt he wasn't achieving what he wanted. so he focused on what he needed to do to get his life straight, finding out what he wanted to do with himself and truly going for it. he enrolled himself at Goddard college, and everything is working out so well for him, because he's doing it all for himself. he plays guitar for 5 hours a day and reads books by authors like James Joyce, Aldous Huxley, and Ouspensky. he's educating himself in exactly the things he's motivated by. he's not being spoonfed scewed versions of things he's not interested in and being tested on his ability to regurgitate or manipulate- there's no resistance. the school's motto is At The Heart of The Mind, isn't that wonderful? at the beginning of each semester he goes to Vermont and picks a new advisor (they all have different areas of specialty, and you can only have the same advisor twice). with his advisor, he plans what kind of work he's going to be doing, and they give him advise on how to achieve it, and they work out a rough course plan knowing that life experience is going to bring much to the education. so he works on making tapes of his music, writing poetry, researching and writing about the books he's reading, and all sorts of things of his own accord - he can bring anything he wants into his education. he focuses where he needs to on his own accords. and that's what all the people at Goddard are doing, and even though the off-campus kids are doing there own things indepedently, they are still very connected people in very high, engaging relationships that self confident, self-directed people have. in the last year i've witnessed him make giant advances in his own spiritual and intellectual development. he introduced me to psychedelics and ram dass (we went to see him together at ann arbor) and tim leary and bob wilson when he was 16, i was 18- we have been friends since highschool. now he's the most peaceful, compassionate, and self-directed person of his age that i've ever met. he's really a very inspiring person to be around. i've noticed he uses psychedelics infrequently now (still maybe 8 times a year), where i use them 10 fold as much. he also has an intelligent, beautiful girlfriend, works and pays for school himself, is involved in the community and sees more concerts and festivals than anyone i know. he makes it all happen. i really respect him for that, and being around such a high minded person shows makes my own short-comings clear as day.
my other housemate works at a restaurant washing dishes. he always just has enough to get by and still make it to concerts and buy a couple cds and a sack of weed every month. every night after getting off work he goes upstairs and works on his computer from 9pm-5am on spacey electronic music. he still uses psychedelics whenever he can get his hands on them. he doesn't really care for religion. he's probably one of the few people i know who i'd call a "genius", but he doesn't benifet from all the non-resistant, unwound spiritual truths that my other housemate does. but he is living right and does find peace in what he does and is very actively engaged in his music, and he has a big heart and a good sense of humor, and i love and respect him very much.
we've all known each other from high school, and have went through a lot of crazy ass shit together. like the time we built a slide down our stairs because we have two parallel sets of staircases for a party we had. they knew i'd be the voice of reason, so they didn't tell me about the pool we installed out of 4' high X 6' long boards covered with a huge, thick tarp, making a 12'X6'4' high pool in our utility room. of course it flooded our basement. we still had a great night, nobody got electricuted after all and our floor didn't collapse or anything... we still haven't assessed the damages... at least my name isn't on the lease... and we make crazy ass artwork together, like my spiritual housemate got naked and that di vinci pose with a multiple exposure camera, or playing chess with myself, and us as see no evil-hear no evil-speak no evil... or that glass head we put in a filled bathtub and put green foodcoloring in the head and a floating pill bottles and candle on its head with this plastic hand with a syringe and handcuffs and cowskull and smoke... and all our crazy musical jam sessions... i know they expect a lot more out of me, and being with me helps me out of all the confusion of the rat-race. they've got really great life-perspectives and have shown me so much... i'm sure they'd be disgusted with what i do here on the shroomery. i feel a bit foolish with myself..... sometimes you don't realize quite how far gone you are.... ibut i'm achieving things for myself lately, they're self-directed. i haven't used lsd in weeks (perhaps that sounds pathetic), and i have been using the weed much more spiritually lately. more of what i'm doing is self-created. it's feeling more right, more authentic. i'm getting there.
well, thanks for your advise though. i'll surely check out the book. peace/cj

Repent! Repent! Floss Often!

Edited by CosmicJoke on 05/28/01 09:39 PM.



--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #329116 - 05/30/01 04:21 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Well, there are certainly many ways to 'skin a cat,' and all I can suggest that I know has definitely worked is my own concrete experience. I took a break between my 3rd and 4th semesters, worked in a factory, snorted acid almost every night, hung around with a guy who used me and my new car to tidy up obligations before committing suicide, and returned to school as a philosophy major. Took over a year after graduating to go for a masters, and a year after my masters to find a doctoral program. 10 years in 3 universities, poor and lonely most of the time after undergraduate school - and then marrying the worst possible female creature I ever met in my personal or professional life!
The only important continuity in life was completing my academic programs, so it symbolizes an Ariadnean thread through the
labrinthe of life. Who knows what parallel life-histories would have been like if I hadn't switched from pre-med to philosophy, or if I hadn't returned to school. I might've actually become a physician, but I probably would'nt have been able to take all the psychedelics I took. If I'd have turned out a general practitioner or surgeon (which was my plan) as an INTP, I would've been mediocre at best. I probably wouldn't have considered psychiatry because I hadn't opened the doors of perception. So I might have turned out a piss-poor physician. Or, not returning to school, I can't even imagine how depressed I would've become when I realized that I had become a delivery boy for a living. Probably my life was/is more determined than I am suggesting. That would mean that I've had very little to choose, and all I can do is describe my path but not suggest anything to anyone because (as Be Here Now taught me) we are all determined. However, you should find the school of your liking, and still come away with a sheepskin for the practicality of its possession.
Sounds like your party is a scene from the film 'Real Genius.' My friends and I rented a haunted house when I was 19-20, and very interesting things happened until the festive atmosphere drove out the paranormal activities. Keep enjoying this stage of your life, but keep an eye on the future as well. Peace.

Edited by MarkostheGnostic on 05/29/01 09:26 PM.



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineFaaip_De_Oiad
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #329360 - 05/30/01 09:24 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

WOOOOOAH ! ! ! ! ! !
Now that's some deep shit, (normally I don't sound this stupid) I never thought of it that way, I hope I did something cool (that got me in to hell), also, maybe this IS hell, but if we do good enough in this hell, then we go back to what really is the "real" world, but we would perceive it as Heaven, or something, and then there is an even higher state of being than THAT. OR (I must be getting boring) this is only a limbo-like place that decides the entrance to heaven or hell, or maybe I'm full of shit, who's to say?

And the angel of the lord came unto me, snatching me up from my place of slumber. And took me on high, and higher still until we moved to the spaces betwixt the air itself...


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #330002 - 05/31/01 03:58 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

there is deffinitelly no Hell,so do not worry.

____________________________________
Not just the Founder of the Shroomery
Crobih@shroomery.org
http://www.shroomery.org


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Offlinemissulena
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crobih]
    #330366 - 05/31/01 12:08 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

check out the sounds of hell on real audio, iam guessing its what Jeff Dahmer would trip too if he still graced us with his presence today

Edited by missulena on 05/31/01 05:09 AM.



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Offlinezetek
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: missulena]
    #330419 - 05/31/01 02:19 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)



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Offlinezetek
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: zetek]
    #330421 - 05/31/01 02:22 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)



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Offlineholographic mind
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #330423 - 05/31/01 02:27 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

fire i have only read your initial message in this thread and all i have to say is bravo.

I am going to read the rest of the thread now



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