I've always considered hell to be a self-created (perhaps collectively created) reality in which one admits ones self to be punished for those things one did and felt guilty about (that went against ones integrity). This "dimension" could be a subtle overlay on waking life, or a dramatic reality after life (or outside it).
~ jiva
I would agree with you regarding "Hell" as being self-created first and collectively created thereafter as a result of constructive interference [kind of like a feed-back loop].
Regarding admitance [into 'Hell'] stemming from a feeling of guilt.. Perhaps; however, I don't think it was meant to be a form of punishment, but rather, an intended temporary escape.
What you mentionned about the "dimension"... excellent! Regarding its relation to waking life, as an overlay... I'd say that you are correct... There is OVERLAP...
The second part of that statement... you appear to speak from the reference of your personal vantage point. So the way you said it was correct.
If you were to take the generalized vantage point, you could say that it is surrounding life [ that is.. before and maybe after... I say maybe only because it dosen't have to end that way.. However the potential is always there].
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To me, hell is when you are in torment or when a mass is at a state of misery. it's one side of the coin that expresses extreme emotion. here hell would be the negativity because that's the connection we have with the word hell.
I think how far hell can go depends on how deep the roots of fear and anxiety have been sown in a certain individuals mind. you can go as far as you want your mind to go down, or you can go up as well. both to me are just judgement values of that particular person. if there was any TRUTH or fact to the actual event in connection to what really "IS", it would remain to be seen.
the only factor I could see that hell has is chaos. And really it is neither bad nor good. or is it?
~Kaiowas
Concerning: "... When a mass is in a state of misery." & "... One side of the coin that expresses extreme emotion."
As I was saying to Jiva, this is a direct result of a feed-back loop. Allow me to use a silly example:
Let's begin by allowing equilibrium to be initially present, coupled with the parallel existance of an extreme potential to take the initial state [potentially] out of balance.
An illustration of what I am refering to, along with your concept, Kaiowas, can be as follows:
Suppose the mass [ and I am making the assumption that you mean "mass" to be a large number of entities ] was synonymous to a hugely and tightly packed snowball atop a hill with incredibly steep slopes. The initial positionning of the snowball is such that it can roll down any of the hill's slopes in any direction; but it dosen't due to it's [the snowball's] perfect balance. This is the state of equillibrium with potential existing all around at the same time.
The two sides of the coin, as you said, would then be like: an equillibrium side and a non-equillibrium side.
Equillibrium has a tendance to stay that way until it is taken out of balance. Once the snowball begins to move, through input to the snowball, or within the snowball, the particular potential of the hill's slope begins to take hold. The transformation is that of expression in terms of kinetic. Kinetic can be overlapped and caused to form a loop called a feed-back loop, where you can incorperate individual inputs from various locations and come up with an augmanted resulting expression.
If you find that difficult to understand, consider this... At a concerto, in an auditorium, an individual begins clapping [ not too loud eh?]. And then another, and another and soon everyone is clapping... Every individual's clap [their personally expressed kinetic] is overlapped with everyone else's... The result.. ALOT of noise ! !
It can get quite loud !
How deep the roots have been sown in an individual's mind, as you put it, overlapped with everyone else's [within the snowball] rooted sowing input, relates to a "time" period... That is... It has been happening for "this" long, where "this" is the current length of the period... Where the current length of the period is always larger everytime you say current length of the period... That is, it is always getting bigger.
So.... Back to the snowball...
Once it begins moving in one direction down the slope, it picks up more "moving ability"... In the snowball example, hopefully, it is obvious that the longer down the slope the ball has been moving, the quicker it picks up velocity.
The direction down the slope is the resulting force input by everyone within the snowball. Input can be added any time, but you'll notice that as the snowball picks up more and more speed in the direction it is going, it becomes more and more difficult to "steer" it. If everyone synchronized the input, "steering" would become easier AND have greater impact.
Unfortunately.... I would say that the sum-total input potential of everyone within the snowball has been significantly exceeded by the kinetic movement of the snowball... That is, without outside help, there can not be enough potential available to stop the snowball from its designated course. It would be synonymous to trying to steer yourself out of a huge whirlpool once you are caught in it.
It is evident that "outside" assistance [ I mean outside of the "snowball system" analogy] in that matter is absolutely essential, if there is any hope of regaining equillibrium.
Concerning the chaos... Once thrown out of balance and caught in an overlapping loop, it can get rather crazy to the observer.. Like a microphone, for example, that begins to pickup its own noise through the speakers and loop it through the system over and over causing that resulting "screeching noise".
Chaos is neither good nor bad... It is simply the manner in which the system behaves. Absolute chaos is the extreme flipside of relative equillibrium.
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Positronius said:
hell is other people
In terms of influence upon the physical, I'd agree with you that "Hell" can be reflected, sometimes VERY efficiently, through people.
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Frog: I disagree. Or, maybe it's a variation of hell. My variation of "hell" is being made to wait.
I appologise for taking this long to reply.
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eve69:
They say hell is eternal but you can't have applied constant pressure. In other words, pressure must be pushed and pulled like as in a circuit. In a circuit there is a polarity of positive and negative. That polarity pushes the current. So also, if you experience unremitting heat or cold for eternity it would have to always escalate or pulsate to maintain a sensation, and even then one would have to have a feeling apparatus which could perceive to the extreme without tiring out or burning up.
Tiring out or burning up is a quality of "real physical"... Such as our bodies, where there is a maximum amount of feeling that they can translate... A finite feeling potential, which, when exceeded, is just too much "information".
If you were to reach a point of "too much information", nothing would matter anymore. It would be like completely surrendering [willingly or unwillingly] yourself ... Because you'd understand: there would be no stopping it.
Remember, I am keeping this in relation to real physical... Synonymous to the manner in which your physical brain has a finite limit of "experience potential", and once exceeded, it is just "too much information"... That is, it [the physical brain] can't process all of it [more than its limit potential] efficiently; therefore, known logical thinking patterns would begin to break down and fail. It would be a state where you'd recognize your inability to maintain control... And thus, as a consequence, you would surrender yourself completely.
[ASIDE- As one approaches the limit of the brain's experience potential {without exceeding that potential}, whether towards a direction of perceived "good" or "bad"... -either way gives the same result, just in different directions- ... You would increasingly {proportionally relative to the limit reached} begin to understand your current place { This is a relation of experience from your own relatively balanced vantage point to that of your own limit (+ ve or -ve) }. And I'd wager that you'd begin to be thankful that you are, in fact, HERE.]
Moreover, it would be very easy to break down, by merely moving in a different direction and not going with the hellish flow.
Yes. You would need to "counter" with enough efficiency in order to create a newly restored balance.
In physics terms, it would be like applying a frictionnal force to the "hellish flow", as you termed it. This, simply put, means that there will not be an instantaneous reinstatement of balance... Rather, a gradient, where PERCEVERENCE [in terms of keeping this frictionnal force applied] is the KEY FACTOR.
Oddly, using physics analogies can lead us to interesting ideas, specifically the analogies of thermodynamics. For there to be an unremitting canned=pressurized hell which is eternal there must be infinite energy to maintain it, or there must be the state of superfluidity at near zer o temperatures as in superconduction.
...Or both. Extreme heat and extreme cold realative to your own vantage point are both negative; but relative to each other, are opposites. They can co-exist in a parallel state, both being on the "negative side" of your originally balanced perception.
Keep in mind however, that an infinate input of energy is, in my opinion, related with the concept of infinity. And infinity is a VERY LARGE number. The implication is, that there ARE boundaries.
You see, the conservation of momentum needed to sustain a perpetual charge would only really be possible in a zero temperature supercondusive enviroment...
I think that a charge is in the form of potential... I'd agree that great potential can be found in a "non-moving" [read: completely balanced] environment.
But I'd also say that once movement began, that is, kinetic energy began expressing, non-movement [equating to your zero temeperature statement] would begin exhibiting an increase in T relative with an increase in movement... [To a crittical limit, that once surpassed would be like a chain reaction... An example of Chaos, or, self perpetuating [feedback-like related] movement in a particular direction]...
You can only really perceive various directions from a mid-point perspective relative to all the possible available directions... So... from a balanced stand point... or... from a crossroad, where you can see all roads available...
It implies equillibrium... Where the resulting sum potential of each direction equals zero.
...hell would really be made from the previous spin and energy of our habits.
Agreed. And we all know, that no matter how difficult it may seem in the beginning, habits can be influenced with an attitude of perceverence. That is, can be changed if you really put in the effort. Effort = work... Where work is m a d.
That means, if everyone is to "balance out", that enough work must be put in by every individual to collectively counter the distance that which has been deviated from the point of origin.
However, given the physical nature of this scenario there would have to be a superconductive container which maintained the appropriate conditions, and it would have to be hermetically sealed, then cooled and maintained at that temperature which again takes enormous sums of energy.
Yes. The energy you mention is effort.
To be "maintained at that temperature", where cooled only means less movement- so decreased Kinetic and a proportionnal increase in Potential - can be exhibited through equillibrium, where, once in balance, the potential to move in any given direction becomes available [Please refer to "snowball analogy" for a simplified illustration]
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Dei Gratia de integro,
Veni Vidi Vici:
In Nomine Domini..
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But mainly, such a physical container would take up a lot of space. Better to just make non eternal prisons and place everyone together in a camp, sort of like the history of Australia, and let them work it out. This is a more economical solution. Hay,you don't even really have to watch them then.
), you didn't really enlighten us to your point of view, did you? Making short statements like that makes you seem pompous. 
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