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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Swami Sheds a Tear
    #2101175 - 11/13/03 12:27 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I thought I could leave the Shroomery in good hands. I do not care if one agrees with my viewpoints or not. However, I came to demonstrate the basic tenets of logical debate. In just a few days of posting, I have encountered at least 18 major logical fallacies.

Seems I have failed as a teacher as nothing has changed. This place reeks of emotionalism and irrationality which have no place in philosophy.

It is time to elect a new Swami...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: Swami]
    #2101184 - 11/13/03 12:30 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Your'e Not gonna leave us again, Are you?


We as humans should not be emotional, I agree. :crazy: 


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


Edited by sirreal (11/13/03 12:31 PM)


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: Swami]
    #2101206 - 11/13/03 12:36 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

"Swami Sheds a Tear"... so emotionalism makes you sad?


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisiblewhiterasta
Day careobserver
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Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: Swami]
    #2101221 - 11/13/03 12:40 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

We were all corrupted when we left Vulcan don't you know?
As displayed by your post no one is immune from emotionalism...even the Swami/Sclorch/Spock group
WR:rasta:


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To old for this place


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: Evolving]
    #2101229 - 11/13/03 12:43 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

"Swami Sheds a Tear"... so emotionalism makes you sad?

Very clever! You win the grand prize - a 1973 Gremlin. I was hoping you would let one of the neophytes uncover this fallacy. :smile:
 


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibletekramrepus
Female User Gallery
Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 2,229
Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: Swami]
    #2101247 - 11/13/03 12:48 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

How is logic not as flawed as emotions?


Logic is often "mis-used" to confuse others, proove people's OWN beliefs, etc.

In order to get ANYWHERE in Truthfulness, you need both Logic AND creativity. Equal portions of both.

Albert Einstein wasn't kidding when he stated his famous quote "Imagination is more important that Knowledge". Certainly, your imaginative brain is left in the dark when you try to use conventional science to explain theories and whatnot - that have no purpose in our world.




Any form of understanding or Truth is based on completed systems, not systems of science that lead no where. Physics, Numbers, etc - these forms of logically thinking lead you nowhere in the spiritual realm, they only help you reach material gain.


True sciences - like a true form of religion, meditation, yoga, sacred geometry - and the thousands of more completed systems, are based on logic AND creativity.


Edited by tekramrepus (11/13/03 12:48 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2101274 - 11/13/03 12:55 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

How is logic not as flawed as emotions?
Please explain how logic is flawed in the arenas where it should be used.

Logic is often "mis-used" to confuse others, proove people's OWN beliefs, etc.
If that is true, then it is not logic that is being misused, but rhetoric.

In order to get ANYWHERE in Truthfulness, you need both Logic AND creativity. Equal portions of both.

Albert Einstein wasn't kidding when he stated his famous quote "Imagination is more important that Knowledge".

Editor's note: See how the poster has clevery transmorgified emotionalism into creativity and imagination?

Any form of understanding or Truth is based on completed systems, not systems of science that lead no where. Physics, Numbers, etc - these forms of logically thinking lead you nowhere in the spiritual realm, they only help you reach material gain.
ONLY MATERIAL GAIN. So what you want is something that gives you ONLY SPIRITUAL GAIN (whatever that undefined something is!).

Editor's note: See how the term ONLY appeals to emotionalism and nothing factual? "This car sells for ONLY $19,9995..."


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: Swami]
    #2101487 - 11/13/03 01:45 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

poor SWAMI.

desperately searching for rationality in a fundamentally irrational universe.

actually thats pretty funny.
:lol: :lol: :lol:


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2101535 - 11/13/03 01:58 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

desperately searching for rationality in a fundamentally irrational universe.

Desperately searching for reading comprehension and literacy.

1. I don't believe the universe is "fundamentally" irrational.

2. Exploration of unknown or unknowable topics can still follow rules of rational discussion.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OnlinetrendalM
tangential derivation
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Registered: 04/17/01
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Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: Swami]
    #2101578 - 11/13/03 02:06 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

What if we are to believe Quantum mechanics, and all of it's logical mayhem.


I actually don't think that. I think logic prevails wherever it can.


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The story book's been read
And every line believed
Curriculum's been set
Logic is a threat
Reason searched and seized


BTC - 1KqrSHZ1C3NsQP4g3PkHhppBnhdgyXr6sB


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
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Registered: 06/30/03
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Loc: space
Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: Swami]
    #2101590 - 11/13/03 02:09 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I don't believe the universe is "fundamentally" irrational.





I know, thats what I find so hilarious.

Can you offer me any proof of this belief of yours?


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2101666 - 11/13/03 02:30 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

No more than you can "prove" your hypothesis. However, there are many things today that are explainable that were seemingly inexplicable hundreds of years ago. The more we learn of how things work, the more "rational" things seem (quantum physics notwithstanding).


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlineguitarmon
musician

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 62
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: Swami]
    #2101692 - 11/13/03 02:35 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
...I came to demonstrate the basic tenets of logical debate...

Seems I have failed as a teacher as nothing has changed.




*wipes a tear from poor Swami's eye*

Now, now Swami ... its ok. Sometimes the 'teacher' becomes the 'student'.

We are all students and teachers in this mysterious multiverse we live in.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
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Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: Swami]
    #2101716 - 11/13/03 02:40 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

No more than you can "prove" your hypothesis.




indeed.  This kind of reminds me of the whole athiesm/theism debate.  I love how neither position is logically defensible, which means the only logical position is agnosticism.  Which is basically like saying that the only rational state of mind is confusion.
:lol: :lol: :lol:


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Anonymous

Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2101759 - 11/13/03 02:50 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

ag?nos?ti?cism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-nst-szm)
n.
The doctrine that certainty about first principles or absolute truth is unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge.
The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist.

i dont think that equates "confusion", exactly.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: ]
    #2101773 - 11/13/03 02:54 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

well, if you ask an agnostic whether or not there is a God, his ultimate answer will be : "I don't know."

I think that does equate confusion, at least in a general sense.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Anonymous

Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2101784 - 11/13/03 02:59 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

by definition they would tell you..

absolute truth is unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge.

not 'i don't know.' but most agnostics would say they don't know, and they'd be quite certain of it. so thus little confusion... i think.

or they might tell you its impossible to know if god exists. once again, they'd be quite certain. but ignorant. so i think its more an acceptance of ignorance than a state of confusion.

sorry to derail the thread.. ;x


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
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Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: ]
    #2101889 - 11/13/03 03:30 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

not 'i don't know.' but most agnostics would say they don't know, and they'd be quite certain of it. so thus little confusion... i think.




"I'm quite sure that I'm not quite sure about anything."
:lol: :lol: :lol:



--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
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Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2101907 - 11/13/03 03:34 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

wouldn't everyone have to be considered agnostic since nobody knows whether god exists or not? Sure, you have your beliefs, but your never sure.

Oh by the way, try this one on for size swami.

I am a man.
All men are mortal.
Therefore, I am not mortal.


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: Swami Sheds a Tear [Re: Swami]
    #2101921 - 11/13/03 03:38 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Don't wimp out on us now. This forum needs someone to act as the voice of reason and logic, otherwise it spins into chaos and is overtaken by superstitious people with tin-foil hats. You are the Yin to their Yang(or is it the other way around? I get those two confused sometimes). You help maintain a delicate balance in this forum.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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