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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2193158 - 12/20/03 03:45 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
Me too! :wink:




Step back, foo! Or I'll take care of you, in a milliary coup! Like the battle of Waterloo!

By the way, did you catch that episode of Winnie the Pooh? They stole my idea about introducing a cow that goes moo, and I threatened to sue, but they managed to woo me by taking me, for free, to the zoo. Oh wait, I fucked up some of this, let me redo.

It started out as such a simple little thing, but look how it grew. :grin:

I'm done now, at least until Act Two.  :tongue:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2193166 - 12/20/03 03:52 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

OMG, I've created a monster :grin:


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: lucid]
    #2193174 - 12/20/03 03:56 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

lucid said:
OMG, I've created a monster :grin:




Well, the other day, I was walking through Kalamazoo, when I stepped in some doo, and.... *has mouth gagged shut by an angry mob of Shroomerites*

:smirk:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2193181 - 12/20/03 04:01 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

lucid said:
OMG, I've created a monster :grin:




Well, the other day, I was walking through Kalamazoo, when I stepped in some doo, and.... *has mouth gagged shut by an angry mob of Shroomerites*

:smirk:
Peace.




:lol:


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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OfflineTHATS iT!
mellow
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 225
Loc: In the misty mountains o...
Last seen: 20 years, 22 days
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: trendal]
    #2193202 - 12/20/03 04:14 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Love is logical. Is it not logical to have peaceful and caring emotions about someone? When you meet someone who relates to you and is similar to you, is it not logical to want to spend more time with them? Eventually you want to spend forever with them and begin a family. Is a family with you own children illogical? Love is the only logical emotion in the human psych. Sure we may make illogical decisions sometimes based upon the fact that we do love that person. When you boil those decisions down they become logical, but only if well being is the goal. But if your goal is to harm someone you love out of spite, that is illogical and isn't love. Spite, envy, hate, jealousy are illogical emotions. Why should you not wish the well being of others? Maybe because you are not recieving what you think you should get. Maybe you think you would be better off with someone who can provide for you. That is selfish, and that is illogical. Love keeps us alive, and alive is logical. "When love comes, that is reality." "Passion is sanity, and the woman you love, she is the only person you will ever really understand." E. M. Forester

Edited by THATS iT! (12/20/03 04:16 PM)

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Offlinebumski
cattle russler

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 83
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2193213 - 12/20/03 04:23 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

lucid said:
sez who ?
hey it rhymes ! :grin:




I do!

:grin:
Peace.




Me too! :wink:




F#@% you.

I'm just kiddin' please dont ban me


--------------------
Cheech: Hey man, the house is bein' raided man! opsCays! You hear me man? get-outski!

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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: THATS iT!]
    #2193899 - 12/21/03 01:44 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

thats it: "Love is the only logical emotion in the human psych"

right, because its enjoyable means its logical. Hate is just as logical as love my dear friend.

Someone comes to your house and murders your family, is it logical to love that person? nope. Thats not going to get you anywhere. Hate him, track him down and cut his throat with a rusty knife.

actually, I dont think any emotion is very logical, it seems that being devoid of emotion is the most logical approach to life. Calculate the risks, analyze the variables, thats the true middle path.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: Positronius]
    #2193910 - 12/21/03 01:49 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:
actually, I dont think any emotion is very logical, it seems that being devoid of emotion is the most logical approach to life. Calculate the risks, analyze the variables, thats the true middle path.




Maybe no emotion is very logical because it might be considered the opposite of logic, or at least, sometimes not within the bounds of logic? Just thinking aloud.

How much enjoyment do you think you would get out of living without emotion?
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2193918 - 12/21/03 01:53 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:

How much enjoyment do you think you would get out of living without emotion?
Peace.




if we had no emotions, perhaps we wouldn't be concerned about
how much enjoyment we're getting so it wouldn't really matter...
but then again, not sure how we'd react to others, probably
indifference, but then again, maybe not...
just thinking out aloud  :tongue2:


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2193923 - 12/21/03 01:54 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Well, certain Daoists believe that an emotionless life is the middle path, and those who can abstain from such frivolous "feelings" are the ultimate humans.

Supposedly these people had great fun.

Zhuangzi was walking through the forest with his wife, a tree fell on his wife and killed her, he laughed and kept walking.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: Positronius]
    #2193953 - 12/21/03 02:07 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

I am just wondering how much fun computers would have if they were conscious. We're not machines, and I don't see how we would have fun playing the part. (well, we are sort of machines, but ja...)

I think it is entirely possible to experience emotions without being attached to them or being controlled by them.

I don't think the Zhuangzi thing applies here... I don't know him, but do you think he enjoyed being with his wife? He obviously wasn't going to let something that he had no control of get him down. But I don't think that has anything to do with being void of emotions....
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2193965 - 12/21/03 02:09 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

well, maybe not VOID of emotion...but, he wouldnt submit to emotion, you dig?

there is a difference between living a nice happy, freewheeling life and constantly submitting to the shackles of extreme sadness and extreme joy.

-------just cuz you feel it, doesnt mean its there.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: Positronius]
    #2193971 - 12/21/03 02:11 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:
well, maybe not VOID of emotion...but, he wouldnt submit to emotion, you dig?

there is a difference between living a nice happy, freewheeling life and constantly submitting to the shackles of extreme sadness and extreme joy.

-------just cuz you feel it, doesnt mean its there.




Yeah, this is what I am saying. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2193976 - 12/21/03 02:13 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

radical


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: Positronius]
    #2193999 - 12/21/03 02:29 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:
radical




Anything that automatically forces us to make an action without even really thinking is not a good thing, something that prevents us from higher consciousness... I guess this is pretty much a machine-like state as well. :grin:

The best thing about it is that we can use our ego to retire it to the old folk's home, by observing it and finding out where the water leaks, and patching the holes...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: Positronius]
    #2194500 - 12/21/03 07:57 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

I don't know if the Taoist think that at all.

here's an excerpt

By retaining his humility,
the talented person who is also wise,
reduces rivalry.

The person who possesses many things,
but does not boast of his possessions,
reduces temptation, and reduces stealing.

Those who are jealous of the skills or things
possessed by others,
most easily themselves become possessed by envy.

Satisfied with his possessions,
the sage eliminates the need to steal;
at one with the Tao,
he remains free of envy,
and has no need of titles.

By being supple, he retains his energy.
He minimizes his desires,
and does not train himself in guile,
nor subtle words of praise.
By not contriving, he retains
the harmony of his inner world,
and so remains at peace within himself.

It is for reasons such as these,
that an administration
which is concerned
with the welfare of those it serves,
does not encourage status
and titles to be sought,
nor encourage rivalry.

Ensuring a sufficiency for all,
helps in reducing discontent.

Administrators who are wise
do not seek honours for themselves,
nor act with guile
towards the ones they serve.


I got this from stan rosenthal's translation if anyone is interested.

I just kinda wanted you to see that it isn't emotionless at all acutally


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: kaiowas]
    #2194754 - 12/21/03 11:04 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

umm, theres more than one (D)aoist buddy, and they all think VERY differently.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: kaiowas]
    #2194925 - 12/22/03 01:06 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

yes, you're committing daoist investigator blunder #4 which is using things like daoist holy texts as a reference to explain what daoism is about. You do that with the bible, not daoist books.

You know it's not an authentic daoist book if the first line isn't "the following book is not true." Common daoist reminder: "the true dao is not the dao that can be put into words." And then after saying that the master hands the student a whole bunch of books to memorize word for word. Then the daoist master makes the student go through the traditional motions of a doaist priest overseeing a religious ceremony devoted to a bunch of Gods. Afterwards, the master points out how the whole ceremony is meaningless and the Gods don't exist, and when the student says "Well, then why bother doing it?" The master says "shut up! Do it again!"

There's this book: Chronicles of dao, which is a biographical story about a boy raised in a daoist temple who decided to adopt ascetic daoism as his way of life in the first quarter of last century. His master's always pulling shit like that. Pretty funny.

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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: Positronius]
    #2195071 - 12/22/03 03:38 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

haha!!!! yes I made a FAT mistake there.  you did say certain daoist. I ASSumed you said all or were generalizing them all. sorry for the blunder and I'm glad you caught it :smile:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
Re: Not everything can be explained by logic [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2195072 - 12/22/03 03:40 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

quite so mixo...blunder indeed. hehe

moving on, what makes the texts holy???


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

Edited by kaiowas (12/22/03 03:41 AM)

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