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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #20136046 -

I've always had a problem with vegetarians.... mostly because I love plants and probably see them as a little higher on the scale of worth than a chicken or a pig.

I wouldn't say anything to one in person.... that's just rude... I have at times considered the life of what I'm about to eat.... and feel bad. So I get where they are coming from.

But to not see the beauty in a plant... meh.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3

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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #20136054 -

Just leave some potatoes in your pantry for too long. You are putting those things in the oven... alive.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3

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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: blackdust]
    #20136057 -

blackdust said:
clock_of_omens said:
Plants have no nervous system that is comparable to other animals in any way. There is no reason to think that they feel pain in any way similar to animals.



And once upon a time everybody thought the world was flat.

\


That's a ridiculous analogy.


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Movie Thread - Reviews! Discussion! Fun!

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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #20136066 -



"In space, no one can hear you scream!"


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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #20136071 -

MuffinShroomMan said:
clock_of_omens said:
Plants have no nervous system that is comparable to other animals in any way. There is no reason to think that they feel pain in any way similar to animals.



Ok so your definition of life dictates who dies


I never said anything about what is and is not alive.


MuffinShroomMan said:
I've always had a problem with vegetarians.... mostly because I love plants and probably see them as a little higher on the scale of worth than a chicken or a pig.

I wouldn't say anything to one in person.... that's just rude... I have at times considered the life of what I'm about to eat.... and feel bad. So I get where they are coming from.

But to not see the beauty in a plant... meh.


I never said anything about the beauty value of a plant. I said that there is no reason to believe that they feel pain in any way similar to other animals. It doesn't matter whether you would put plants higher on a scale of worth. The fact is that chickens and pigs can feel pain.


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Movie Thread - Reviews! Discussion! Fun!

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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #20136079 -

No animal feels remorse the way a remora does.


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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #20136099 -

I dunno. I definitely am letting personal bias come into play on this one. I grow stuff. I started with marijuana.... and now just grow rare plants for fun. Amazing what you can grow when you take a good pot-growing setup.... and turn it into just regular plants. Lol.

Just thinking about my enormous tomatoes the first non-marijuana grow lol.

Or the way my lady slippers opened up for the first time....

<3 growing lol

Plants are beautiful living things
OrgoneConclusion said:
No animal feels remorse the way a remora does.


What the fuck man. I literally just watched a documentary on those..... the suckerfish that latch on to sharks and eat their scraps


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3

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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #20136118 -

The global consciousness man..... it fucking attacks me more and more often it seems.... like I need to accept some truth before being able to move on.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3

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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #20136152 -

Quote:
What the fuck man. I literally just watched a documentary on those..... the suckerfish that latch on to sharks and eat their scraps


I know you did. There is a reason my previous incarnation here was as Swami...


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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #20136394 -

while I agree with the idea that plants are living just like animals and shouldn't be killed but then again, a lot veggies can be harvested without completely killing the plant. it's hard to get a burger from a cow and keep the cow alive afterward. don't get me wrong I love plants, but what's weird about having empathy for creatures that are much much more similar to myself?

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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: LittileSkierDude]
    #20136502 -

LittileSkierDude said:
while I agree with the idea that plants are living just like animals and shouldn't be killed but then again, a lot veggies can be harvested without completely killing the plant. it's hard to get a burger from a cow and keep the cow alive afterward. don't get me wrong I love plants, but what's weird about having empathy for creatures that are much much more similar to myself?



I thought of this too but then started to think.... the things we would be eating from the "fruit" of the plant.... would be the next cycle of life for those plants. They are cuttings from the mother.... but they are both the mother and themselves.

But they are kind of intended to be eaten? To move the seeds around?

But then we could argue that animals themselves are intended to be eaten?

And its just a vicious circle I'll have nothing to do with (well except in the context of this forum post or future arguments LOL)


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3

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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #20136584 -

MuffinShroomMan said:
I've always had a problem with vegetarians.... mostly because I love plants and probably see them as a little higher on the scale of worth than a chicken or a pig.

I wouldn't say anything to one in person.... that's just rude... I have at times considered the life of what I'm about to eat.... and feel bad. So I get where they are coming from.

But to not see the beauty in a plant... meh.


So you exclusively eat meat? :rolleyes:


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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: NetDiver]
    #20136598 -

Samurai Drifter said:
MuffinShroomMan said:
I've always had a problem with vegetarians.... mostly because I love plants and probably see them as a little higher on the scale of worth than a chicken or a pig.

I wouldn't say anything to one in person.... that's just rude... I have at times considered the life of what I'm about to eat.... and feel bad. So I get where they are coming from.

But to not see the beauty in a plant... meh.


So you exclusively eat meat? :rolleyes:



God I wish I had the money.

But I suppose I'm up for a fun game of arguing semantics as is the norm on this forum.

I see a Pig and a Chicken as less valuable than a strawberry plant. However.... will eat any of them.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3

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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: MuffinShroomMan] * 1
    #20136637 -

And why do you think your arbitrary values hold any weight in an ethical discussion based in logic? The basis of ethical decision making should be maximizing happiness and minimizing suffering; strawberry plants can't feel pain and suffering whereas animals can. If you don't care, that's one thing, but don't try to pass it off as based on some values system.


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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #20136641 -

Chickens are stupid creatures that have no use other than being eaten or being kept alive to produce edible things.

Pigs are disgusting things that eat anything and are also just meant to be there to eat.

Strawberry plants are PRETTY things... that have no use other than to be eaten.


And when I say "meant" I mean.... our human existence revolves around the eating of X... and that pig /chicken and those strawberries are one of the many X's.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3

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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: NetDiver]
    #20136659 -

Samurai Drifter said:
And why do you think your arbitrary values hold any weight in an ethical discussion based in logic? The basis of ethical decision making should be maximizing happiness and minimizing suffering; strawberry plants can't feel pain and suffering whereas animals can. If you don't care, that's one thing, but don't try to pass it off as based on some values system.



The ability for something to make an audible sound for you.... or to feel "pain" doesn't make it any less right or wrong ethically.

When a plant is hurt.... it is effected. They wilt... they change colors... they "bleed"... they just dont scream for you.... or do what you recognize as "pain" which is just your body saying "hey bro youre dying".


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3

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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #20136688 -

I'm not passing anything off for something else. I would kill 50 pigs and 50 chickens before I touched my yellow lady slippers.

Now a random flower in a field? Sure I'll destroy it to save the life of some stupid pig. But you show me a pretty enough plant.... and I'll pick an axe up and deal with that filthy creature. That chicken too.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3

Edited by MuffinShroomMan (06/15/14 11:11 PM)

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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: MuffinShroomMan] * 1
    #20136704 -

MuffinShroomMan said:
Chickens are stupid creatures that have no use other than being eaten or being kept alive to produce edible things.

Pigs are disgusting things that eat anything and are also just meant to be there to eat.

Strawberry plants are PRETTY things... that have no use other than to be eaten.


And when I say "meant" I mean.... our human existence revolves around the eating of X... and that pig /chicken and those strawberries are one of the many X's.


"Pretty" and "disgusting" are subjective terms which hold no weight in a coherent system of ethics. Whether or not something has the ability to feel pain and suffering is an objective fact based on neuroscience, and that's the criteria which should come into play when deciding what is right and wrong.


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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: NetDiver]
    #20136778 -

Samurai Drifter said:
MuffinShroomMan said:
Chickens are stupid creatures that have no use other than being eaten or being kept alive to produce edible things.

Pigs are disgusting things that eat anything and are also just meant to be there to eat.

Strawberry plants are PRETTY things... that have no use other than to be eaten.


And when I say "meant" I mean.... our human existence revolves around the eating of X... and that pig /chicken and those strawberries are one of the many X's.


"Pretty" and "disgusting" are subjective terms which hold no weight in a coherent system of ethics. Whether or not something has the ability to feel pain and suffering is an objective fact based on neuroscience, and that's the criteria which should come into play when deciding what is right and wrong.



Well its hard to describe a beautiful flower without saying pretty... and its hard to describe a filthy pig without saying disgusting. But nice deflection there.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3

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Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #20136780 -

MuffinShroomMan said:
The ability for something to make an audible sound for you.... or to feel "pain" doesn't make it any less right or wrong ethically.

When a plant is hurt.... it is effected. They wilt... they change colors... they "bleed"... they just dont scream for you.... or do what you recognize as "pain" which is just your body saying "hey bro youre dying".


this is your best argument in my opinion. I like how you described pain. but like I said before, it is difficult to feel empathy for something that functions so differently from yourself. yea, pigs are pretty different from humans. but they do make noise when hurt, like us. they do feel pain, in the same way we do. this creates empathy..which is pretty damn important in ethics whether one wants to think so or not. we feel empathy for things we can relate to, and slightly less empathy for things that we can't relate to

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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