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OfflineAmber_Glow
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Registered: 09/02/02
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Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: demiu5]
    #6109366 - 09/28/06 12:27 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

You asked if I thought animals were immoral for eating meat. No I do not think so because (as you suggested) they cannot be sustained on a vegetable diet. I make a distinction between human and animal for that reason as well.

One cannot completely avoid evil. Are you defending the position that we all need to kill ourselves so we surely cause no harm?

Our human descendants depended on eating meat to survive. They did not have the knowledge or resources to eat a vegan diet. We live in a different time now, where a vegan diet is easy, simple, and very possible.


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OfflineAmber_Glow
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Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: Silversoul]
    #6109384 - 09/28/06 12:31 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Oh I missed the assumed premise that the deer is eaten either way. You could have worded that more clearly, or maybe it was my fault.

So you are speaking of some hypothetical situation where you and a wolf both come up to a deer at the same time. You are aware the wolf intends to attack, kill, and eat the deer. You have a gun. I'd say your best bet is to shoot the wolf! :P


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #6109392 - 09/28/06 12:33 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Amber_Glow said:
Oh I missed the assumed premise that the deer is eaten either way.  You could have worded that more clearly, or maybe it was my fault. 

So you are speaking of some hypothetical situation where you and a wolf both come up to a deer at the same time.  You are aware the wolf intends to attack, kill, and eat the deer.  You have a gun.  I'd say your best bet is to shoot the wolf!  :P



So it's better to kill an animal with no intention of consuming it than to kill another and eat it?  Nice show of compassion there... :rolleyes:


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Invisibledemiu5
humans, lol
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Registered: 08/19/05
Posts: 43,948
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Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #6109401 - 09/28/06 12:35 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

yes, but how can you say that "supermarket sustainability", if you will, is right or moral. To have supermarkets or even small stores requires transportation which causes pollution (harming plants and animals), destorys ecosystems, and furthers the economic crises everywhere.

Also, where did I suggest that *some* animals could not live on a vegetable diet?

True, we live in a different time, and yes living a vegetarian life or even vegan life is possible and easy. But why should you rely on others to produce your food for you? Why not do it yourself? It would still be as easy to eat the foods, it would just take work on your part.

And to further that, what about natives to North and South America that knew how to farm, and store vegetables throughout the winter...they continue(d) killing animals for meat as well as other purposes.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
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Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: demiu5]
    #6109440 - 09/28/06 12:43 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Vegatarianism is a by-product of slave morality.


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OfflineAmber_Glow
Sat Chit Anand

Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 1,543
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: demiu5]
    #6109444 - 09/28/06 12:44 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Silv: Eat the wolf.

Dem: One cannot completely avoid evil. As Icelander gave as an example earlier, we cannot walk without stepping on ants. Are you defending the position that we all need to kill ourselves so we surely cause no harm?

I'm sorry, you suggested some COULD. But they in fact COULD NOT. I should have been clearer. Carnivores are carnivores.

Growing your own food is great. That way you know its organic and fresh, woo hoo!


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Invisibledemiu5
humans, lol
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Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #6109455 - 09/28/06 12:47 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I'm sorry, you suggested some COULD. But they in fact COULD NOT. I should have been clearer. Carnivores are carnivores.




Don't exclude other omnivores.  Also, how many carnivores have ever tried switching?;)

No, I don't think we should kill ourselves, but this world used to work around the concept that certain animals die at certain times for other animals.  This chain worked (works) for all animals, so how is it wrong or immoral?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: Fospher]
    #6109481 - 09/28/06 12:54 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Fospher said:
Quote:

psilocyberin said:
I see no correlation between spirituality and the types of food you consume.




I completely disagree with you on an odyssey of reasons.

A. Ever fasted? You become extremely aware of everything around you.

B. Eating junk food will clog your arteries, give you high blood pressure, make you less able, less taut. Eating whole foods will do wonders for you, your mind, body and spirit will be one.

C.




Im not debating the fact that whole foods and such make you feel physically better, and are more healthy for you.

You seem to disagree wih me, but didnt really say anything sequitir to my post.

it seems like you have disagreed with me, and then listed reasons that have nothing to do with vegetarianism/veganism.

1. fasting has nothing to do with this discussion.
2. fast foods are not being debated here, nor were they present in my poast at any time. fast food is the representative for all meats and animal products.

edit: feasting to fasting.... typo.


Edited by psilocyberin (09/28/06 01:13 AM)


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OfflineAmber_Glow
Sat Chit Anand

Registered: 09/02/02
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Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: demiu5]
    #6109487 - 09/28/06 12:56 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Well I'm heading to bed, I can't bat this ball around all night.

Just watch a couple PETA videos and then ask yourself if that cheeseburger is worth it. Goodnight.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: Fospher]
    #6109519 - 09/28/06 01:01 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Fospher said:
C.




I'd hit it.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #6109522 - 09/28/06 01:02 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Amber_Glow said:
Silv: Eat the wolf.



Is the wolf's life less sacred than the deer's?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: Silversoul]
    #6109613 - 09/28/06 01:22 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

yes silversoul... dont you know that the meek are always more sacred. Go underdogs of the liberal/emotional brigade!!!

Bunch of fucking Jains here.... seems once you dont have big blue eyes to look back into they are off your compassion list.....

fuck most of you guys for not sweeping a broom in front of every step you take so as not to cause any other life form pain or death.

Wouldn't it be great if everything was immortal? that would be great huh? just so swell..... yeah, lets ignore the cycle of life and death, ignore that only from destruction can come construction.

Create a song? and destroy the silence. Not one of you are any more innocent than the omnivores here, as an american consumer you are part of that which you perceive as evil.. just because you feel on some level righteous for abstaining in certain things you deem "wrong", it still doesnt excuse your ignorance and hypocrisy in regards to this subject.

if you really want, we can go into a longer discussion about why so many vegans/vegetarians are hypocrites and are completely ignorant of the cycle of regrowth and destruction.... also, a double thumbsdown to many of you for thinking because we have the gift of choice that it makes us superior... we are only superior in our own minds due to the idiotic paramaters and weight we place on our superior ability of morality..... you are just animals... dont act like you are above the laws of nature.....


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Invisibledemiu5
humans, lol
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Registered: 08/19/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium Flag
Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6109639 - 09/28/06 01:27 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

yes silversoul... dont you know that the meek are always more sacred. Go underdogs of the liberal/emotional brigade!!!

Bunch of fucking Jains here.... seems once you dont have big blue eyes to look back into they are off your compassion list.....

fuck most of you guys for not sweeping a broom in front of every step you take so as not to cause any other life form pain or death.

Wouldn't it be great if everything was immortal? that would be great huh? just so swell..... yeah, lets ignore the cycle of life and death, ignore that only from destruction can come construction.

Create a song? and destroy the silence. Not one of you are any more innocent than the omnivores here, as an american consumer you are part of that which you perceive as evil.. just because you feel on some level righteous for abstaining in certain things you deem "wrong", it still doesnt excuse your ignorance and hypocrisy in regards to this subject.

if you really want, we can go into a longer discussion about why so many vegans/vegetarians are hypocrites and are completely ignorant of the cycle of regrowth and destruction.... also, a double thumbsdown to many of you for thinking because we have the gift of choice that it makes us superior... we are only superior in our own minds due to the idiotic paramaters and weight we place on our superior ability of morality..... you are just animals... dont act like you are above the laws of nature.....






Well said


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
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Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: Silversoul]
    #6109645 - 09/28/06 01:28 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Is the wolf's life less sacred than the deer's?

Durrr! Read your Marx. The wolf is a hunter. The tertiary consumer of this ecosystem, the highest organism in this food pyramid. The wolf controls the means of aquiring energy, and all the animals below the wolf in the food chain contributes to the wolf's wellbeing. While, the deer is just a damned lowly primary consumer. The chandala of this ecosystem. The deer lives its life, slaving away at munching leaves and consuming food, ultimately to be consumed by the wolf. All of the deers hard work is taken by those damned wolves. It is just unjust, I tell ya. The deers must rise up against their oppressors and take the power of energy conversion away from them. The base should be at the top, yup. The weak should have all the power. Seems purfectly logical to me.

If Marx doesn't suit your tastes, you can always whip out the Holy Bible: "And the meek shall inherit the Earth."

After re-reading this, I realize it is past my bed time.  :blush:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: demiu5]
    #6109649 - 09/28/06 01:29 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I think I'd rather eat meat and feel imperfect than go vegan and become arrogant and self-righteous.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Posts: 4,587
Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6109653 - 09/28/06 01:30 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

yes silversoul... dont you know that the meek are always more sacred. Go underdogs of the liberal/emotional brigade!!!

Damn. You beat me to it.  :handth:


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Invisibledemiu5
humans, lol
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Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: Silversoul]
    #6109673 - 09/28/06 01:36 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not vegetarian

I would be, but I like hamburgers and cooked chicken...and country ham...too much.

But I understand why many people are vegetarians, and why I used to be: the meat processing process is horribly disgusting, cruel, and unsanitary. Not to mention I've known sooo many meat dept. employees that didn't wash their hands after using the restroom before handling meat.

But, as of yet, no one has really hit on the ideas/questions of my original post


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6109675 - 09/28/06 01:36 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
I see no correlation between spirituality and the types of food you consume. 




Quote:


Im not debating the fact that whole foods and such make you feel physically better, and are more healthy for you.
it seems like you have disagreed with me, and then listed reasons that have nothing to do with vegetarianism/veganism.




I think you should read your first post one more time. Just a suggestion.  :wink:

Quote:

You seem to disagree wih me, but didnt really say anything sequitir to my post.




Congratulations! You receive +100 BONUS POINTS for using the word sequitir in a sentence!!!

:hotidea:

Minus 25% though, because the word is actually spelled sequitur:sad:

Quote:


1. fasting has nothing to do with this discussion.




Is fruit a food type? Is there such a thing as a fruit fast? The answers to those questions hold one to yours.

Quote:


fast food is the representative for all meats and animal products.




Would you like fries with that?


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: demiu5]
    #6109678 - 09/28/06 01:37 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I do find some type of virtue in a vegetarian diet,

but I understand the otherside of the aurgument as well, I think eatting excessive amounts of meat is unhealthy, and much of its nutritional value can be supplimented by other foods,

but I think meat can also be benifical in moderate amounts, I like eating wild game also, such as a deer, fish, turkey.

Native americans lived on wild buffalos, I don't see anything messed up about that, that was their main staple of survival, until people like Wild Bill killed much of its population


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: Fospher]
    #6109705 - 09/28/06 01:47 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

i still dont see where you find a discrepency in my 2 posts quoted in your post. Maybe you are confusing physical and spiritual.

ok... sequitur..... is that the basis of your argument besides quoting me and saying "i think you need to re-read your post"?... oh and also asking me if I like fries with that.... also misquoting me.

do you even want to debate this issue? or are you simply going to skirt the issue?

seriously.... are you even reading my posts?


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