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OfflineDfekt
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Ethics of Hunting
    #4940424 - 11/16/05 07:00 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

When i was a young lad i used to go hunting (mainly rabbits) with my grandfather in the rural area where he lives. He taught me how to track, shoot, trap, hunt using ferrets, skin and prepare the game we had killed, as his father had taught him years ago, and so on for many generations.

The game he hunted was either sold, cooked by my grandmother or fed to the ferrets, and he very rarely killed for sport.

Nowadays, i dont think i would be into going hunting any more, but i am none the less glad that i was taught how to do all this at an early age. I learned 2 very important lessons - (1) How to catch and prepare my own food should i ever need to do so, and (2) That i am capable of killing, and the fact that killing is an important part of human nature. It is what has kept us alive as a species all this time and brought us to where we are today (top of the food chain). It's in our roots, some might even say our tradition/heritage.

My question is this - even though the vast majority of us does not NEED to kill to survive in this day and age, do you consider it right that we keep teaching our children and grandchildren the skills of hunting, even if it is only for the sake of keeping the tradition alive and passing on knowledge to the next generation about our hunter/gatherer roots? Or would you consider it completely wrong to kill an innocent animal when you could easily survive without doing so?

I personally would not kill an innocent creature these days without a good reason, but i WOULD kill again if i needed to and i am still very greatful to my grandfather for teaching me the ways of hunting.

How do you feel about this?


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"Quotation is a serviceable substitute for wit." ~Oscar Wilde


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: Dfekt]
    #4940442 - 11/16/05 07:27 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

hell YES. I think (I was never taught any of these things) every child / person should know how to plant, grow, harvest and store their own fruits and veggies, and also know how to hunt, cook and skin animals.

If for no other reason than to teach every generation how to survive, when the lights / electricity runs out.

Knowing how to survive can never be a bad thing.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: kotik]
    #4940455 - 11/16/05 07:42 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

I tend to agree. The framework for this has been lost to modern society though and will not soon return. Those days are gone for good I think.

I grew up hunting and later took wilderness survival and then spent a couple of summers wandering alone in the high desert pracitcing the skills I had learned. I know that if most people knew how to hunt that they would soon die in a survival situation as that is only one part of a puzzle of living off the land.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: Icelander]
    #4940517 - 11/16/05 08:44 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Hunting is acceptable if the meat is consumed. Hunting strictly for trophy purposes is immoral. I have a friend who hunts all of the meat that he consumes...this is a worthy and healthy life choice.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4940570 - 11/16/05 09:34 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Hunting is not always acceptable if all the meat is consumed. As animal populations become endangered killing and eating them is not acceptable by your moral standards I would guess. What if every man in America decided to take up hunting to feed their families?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4940609 - 11/16/05 09:51 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

you could say that the ethics of hunting covers issues of being fair minded both to
a) the population of the hunted animal and it's ecology as well as
b) to the population of the hunting animal and it's ecology.

I think you got it wrong about killing being an important part of human nature but the rest is fine.

to see ethics of hunting or of anything, it is important not to elevate the importance of some related idea before viewing the "ecology" of whole issue.

hunting for meat relates closely to farming and abbatoires
in a simmilar way that
foraging for mushrooms relates to farming and vegetable markets
so it is closer to mushroom gathering than murder or killing.

capturing and butchering meat animals is not the same as killing which is another area of analysis, and while butchering is part of life and of eating meat and using leather or fur, killing is a different category related to death, or termination.

sickness which leads to death is closer to killing than hunting meat.
you could say that using the tools of hunting to deal death is a sickness. the ethics in sickness is usually a medical question


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4940622 - 11/16/05 09:58 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Oh and I hate to bring this up Hue, but catch and release fishing is not necessarily moral and has some kinship to trophy hunting. Fish are stressed by the fight and tests have shown conclusively that a certain portion of fish die as a result even under the best conditions.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: Dfekt]
    #4940713 - 11/16/05 10:31 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

I personally would not kill an innocent creature these days without a good reason




Are you a vegetarian?


Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Hunting is acceptable if the meat is consumed. Hunting strictly for trophy purposes is immoral. I have a friend who hunts all of the meat that he consumes...this is a worthy and healthy life choice.




What's the difference? We don't need meat. We eat meat for pleasure and we hunt (for trophy purposes) for pleasure. They are both ways to reach pleasure.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: Annom]
    #4940888 - 11/16/05 11:35 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

What if every man in America decided to take up hunting to feed their families?




I think we might even be better off if this were the case.  Not only would everyone have more survival skills, but it could even emphasize the importance of using everything you can, and probably even cut down on food waste.  Plus each person would also see the direct results of their hunting, as opposed to just hearing about rising and falling animal populations etc / in the news.

Quote:

I personally would not kill an innocent creature these days without a good reason




heh, I have never heard of a "guilty" animal...  :cool:

Quote:

What's the difference? We don't need meat. We eat meat for pleasure and we hunt (for trophy purposes) for pleasure.




this wasnt really about vegetarians... hunting offers so many other things opposed to just food.


Plus I would like to point out that in modern times, hunting is not really as big, since most chicken, beef, pork and other types of meat are domesticated, and born to be food.  It's not like they really have to be hunted.  So considering this, it would still be better for people to know how to hunt, cook and skin animals as opposed to knowing how to get into their car and drive to the nearest mcdonalds.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflineDfekt
Your mother wouldn't approve...
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: kotik]
    #4940948 - 11/16/05 12:03 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

redgreenvines... i see your point, perhaps instead of saying "killing is an important part of human nature" i should have phrased it as "it is important to recognise that killing is a part of human nature" :smile:

Annom, no i'm not a vegetarian, far from it! I understand what you're getting at though, in that we've all got blood on our hands if we buy our meat from supermarkets. This would (or it damn well SHOULD) be considered far worse morally than hunting our own animals, due to the atrocious conditions and quality of life available to domesticated animals which are bred to be food. But that's a different topic all together i suppose. I was initially referring to the direct act of me personally putting and end to an animal's life in its natural habitat, and how i do not intend to do this again without good reason to. I think most people got the drift of what i meant though  :rolleyes:


--------------------
"Quotation is a serviceable substitute for wit." ~Oscar Wilde


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: Icelander]
    #4940962 - 11/16/05 12:08 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

It goes without saying that there should always be strict control on animal populations to ensure against both extinction and overpopulation. Hunting can be a great means of managing animal populations, and provides most of the funds to do this. It is common knowledge that the funds to manage animal populations in the U.S. comes from the sale of licenses and often the activism of environmentally minded hunters. In my previous post I was speaking of managed animals, not animals bordering on extinction. I have zero qualms about deer hunting for food in my state because the deer population here exceeds pre-Columbian populations due to their popularity. Would I kill one to put a rack on my wall? Of course not...I use the antlers for flint knapping.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4940967 - 11/16/05 12:09 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Exactly. Where I live, it would be immoral to not hunt deer, due to their extreme overpopulation. Every year, an enormous amount of deer are killed by starvation and disease due to high population density.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: kotik]
    #4940975 - 11/16/05 12:12 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Hehe, I think, by questioning everybody hunting for his own food, he imagined New Yor or some other big city and the surrounding 'wild-planes' around, when the invasion begins :lol:


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: Icelander]
    #4940976 - 11/16/05 12:12 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

I realize that catch and release fishing does result in some fatalities, but not as many as discarding the catch from apathy and not wanting to clean them as many people do. Consuming them is an equal option to catch and release fishing.
How about catch and release hunting...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisiblerogue_pixie
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: Dfekt]
    #4940981 - 11/16/05 12:13 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

MistaMiner said:I understand what you're getting at though, in that we've all got blood on our hands if we buy our meat from supermarkets. This would (or it damn well SHOULD) be considered far worse morally than hunting our own animals, due to the atrocious conditions and quality of life available to domesticated animals which are bred to be food.




I believe killing animals for our pleasure is wrong but I have a lot more respect for you than your average hamburger muncher.


--------------------
"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP



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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: Icelander]
    #4940988 - 11/16/05 12:15 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

"What if every man in America decided to take up hunting to feed their families?"

There would be far less people and the threat would be diminished. I certainly feel hunting for food to be superior in every way to supporting the meat industry which views life as $$$ and gives us steroid "enhanced" meat to consume.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: Redstorm]
    #4940991 - 11/16/05 12:15 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Plus we get rid of a few hunters that way every year. :wink: Everybody who doesn't really know how to handle a gun, blasting away at everything that moves. :frown: You couldn't pay me to hunt deer in season.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: Icelander]
    #4940995 - 11/16/05 12:17 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Yeah, the only way I'd hunt is if it's on a good friend's privat property that I can ensure no one is on.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4940997 - 11/16/05 12:18 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

One more thing...while guns are efficient...a self bow and a flint tipped arrow are the hunting implements of a true hunter. Guns are for sissies.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Ethics of Hunting [Re: Dfekt]
    #4941006 - 11/16/05 12:20 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

I think that if there isn't too much hunting, then it's fine. In many areas, certain natural predators such as wolves have been wiped out, so a certain amount of human hunting is actually necessary to thin out the herd and prevent overpopulation and starvation among the species in question. I also think hunting for your own meat is much more efficient and ethical than eating meat from the store or from restaurants. A single deer will give you enough meat for the whole winter, compared to possibly thousands of cows which you might eat parts of in fast food restaurants over the course of a year. Also, no one's cutting down the rainforest for deer meat, so I think it makes more sense from an environmentalist perspective as well.


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