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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6113207 - 09/28/06 11:11 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

When you think about it, cattle and other livestock owe their very existence to the fact that they taste good.


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Invisibledemiu5
humans, lol
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Registered: 08/19/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium Flag
Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6114013 - 09/29/06 01:57 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
...but does this necessitate that other aspects of their environment would not have been capable of amply fufilling their requirements? Why weren't they eating what their prey were eating?




Thank you for asking this, that is a great way to word what I was trying to get out.  Maybe the topic/question will be more clear.

:thumbup:


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channel your inner Larry David


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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: demiu5]
    #6114150 - 09/29/06 03:36 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

demius said:
Are there any other animals (herbivores, carnivores, omnivores) that decide eating plants/meat is wrong so I'll eat the opposite?  More specifically for other omnivores, do any of them eat one or the other instead of both, essentially making them herbivores or carnivores?

Why do some humans do this, and why do we have this notion about vegetarianism or vegan-ism?




good question...

I have absolutely no idea if other animals elect the choice of what to eat.  If I had to venture a guess, it would have to deal with what is available at the time, the environment, the types of animals, etc.

I think humans elect the choice of being vegetarian because we have a very deep sense of right and wrong engrained into us. I'm a vegetarian myself, and I can only say that I had the meat industry explained to me, how it's unhealthy because of how unnatural the process is, and that animals are treated like pure shit. since then I have yet to eat another peace of it. 

But it's not the same for everyone.  some poeple just get sick of it and stop.  Something in their minds made them recoil in horror, disgust, or jsut become negative towards the idea of eating another animal.

I guess maybe humans can be vegatarian because they have the ability to analyse their thoughts and actions, and then act upon them.  :shrug:



fireworks: How could humans live off of the sun?  you would have to be able to have chloroplasts (or something like them) to be incorporated into your skin cells.  Human DNA does not recognise chloroplasts (or any foreign material for that matter) as a part of its genome and so it would not be allowed into any cell. 

Chloroplasts are most likely cyanobacteria which were incorporated into certain cells because of an endosymbiotic realtionship that takes millions of years of evolution to develope.

you are wishing for fiction  :sun:


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
Male

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: demiu5]
    #6114237 - 09/29/06 05:42 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

demius said:
Quote:

fireworks_god said:
...but does this necessitate that other aspects of their environment would not have been capable of amply fufilling their requirements? Why weren't they eating what their prey were eating?




Thank you for asking this, that is a great way to word what I was trying to get out.  Maybe the topic/question will be more clear.

:thumbup:




I thnk Carnivores do not have the digestive system nessasery to digest plant matter. This is why they have to eat herbivores that can consume and digest plant matter. They get all there nutrients this way through thier prey.


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Edited by Sinbad (09/29/06 01:13 PM)


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Offlinefriedclyde
Lysergic Me
Male

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 95
Loc: India
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: Sinbad]
    #6114370 - 09/29/06 08:04 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Have you guys heard of Alexis Kriel, She combines Food and consiousness, my girlfriend is actually a vegetarian and im sort of a meat eater. i actually love my meat :smile:

I am placing a link on Alexis Kriel here that she wrote on our blog, let me know what you think about it. 

http://fractalenlightenment.blogspot.com/2006/09/alexis-kriel-food-and-consciousness.html

Im sure that there is a bit of truth in it. But even killing a plant is harmful on a macroscopic level. Do you know that plants do scream when you cut them, its a high pitch sound of the juices in the cells gushing out tru the boundaries when they get cut.

Hmm, the only difference is we can hear the animals cribbin, so i guess being vegetarian is actually a subconsious well being???

@ kaiowas is that from sepeltura roots its been a long time since i heard that :smile:


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Fractal Enlightenment


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: Silversoul]
    #6115015 - 09/29/06 12:55 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Jesus never said much about  it and he was a pretty awake dude I hear among others.



I think this passage from the Gospel of Thomas can help clarify Jesus' stance:

Quote:

His disciples questioned him and said to him, "Do you want us to fast? How shall we pray? Shall we give alms? What diet shall we observe?"

Jesus said, "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered."



I think what this says about vegetarianism is to only do it if your heart is in it.  If you do it just because someone else tells you it's spiritual, you'll only be harming your spiritual development.




Absolutely right on. :thumbup:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: Icelander]
    #6115038 - 09/29/06 01:02 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

We sure do love to talk about food. :grin: That's the real obsession in the west. To eat or not to eat, that is the question. :wink:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
Male

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: Icelander]
    #6115350 - 09/29/06 02:20 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
I think what this says about vegetarianism is to only do it if your heart is in it.  If you do it just because someone else tells you it's spiritual, you'll only be harming your spiritual development.








I think everyone should become vegetarian becuase I tell them too! :evil:


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Offlinefairyt
Stranger
Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 30
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: demiu5]
    #6116347 - 09/29/06 07:28 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

demius said:
Are there any other animals (herbivores, carnivores, omnivores) that decide eating plants/meat is wrong so I'll eat the opposite?  More specifically for other omnivores, do any of them eat one or the other instead of both, essentially making them herbivores or carnivores?





I think cows are herbivores, although i don't know if they make the conscious choice to do so.  I thought i would mention them because we all know what grows on cow dung.    :crazy:


Edited by fairyt (09/29/06 07:30 PM)


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OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: fairyt]
    #6116382 - 09/29/06 07:44 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

good point... can you still be vegan and eat shrooms? since it is in some way an exploitation of animals? kind of like that monkey picked Oulong Tea (sp?).


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Offlinefairyt
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Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 30
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6116404 - 09/29/06 07:52 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

It seems like you could still be vegan and eat shrooms from cow dung, since that wouldn't cause the same exploitation as milk or eggs does. If not you could allways take some grown indoors or in the forest or something.


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OfflineThe_Hobbit
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Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,382
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Re: Vegetarianism etc [Re: fairyt]
    #6116603 - 09/29/06 09:24 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

If you eat eggs, you are not a vegetarian. There is some little chicken embryo in there that technically counts as an animal.

I beleive that it's ok to eat meat. If you want to be compassionate, then do something about the way that the meat industry treats the animals they slaughter. Start lobbying or something. That is how change happens. Not by you abstaining from eating meat and saving a handfull of cows over your lifetime.

There are shades of gray, sure. You can either choose to kill a cow or kill a bunch of insects. Which one will it be? Either way, you caused harm to many more organisms than you ever intended to by eating that 1 organism. Either way, something with a concious dies. That's just the way it works. Which shade of gray is more white and which is more black? It seems like they are both messed up options.

That being said, I know that I could eat less meat. I know that it would probably be healthy for me to abstain from eating as much meat as I do. I would just have to replace it, though, by eating more fish and more nuts and more whatever else to get the protein and other nutrients necessary to live. So.. just like anyone else with a preference, I do what makes me happy.

When you break things down to their lowest common denominator, we are looking at a debate about good and bad. It seems like we fail to realize just how illogical we can get by using logic. If you think about everything so indepth that you cannot even appreciate the big picture, isn't that bad? If you spend time browsing online for 5 minutes rather than washing some old lady at the old folks home, isn't that comparitively bad? That seems to be similar to some of the logic that people use. The real logic is to see both of those things as good things. Eating meat is a good thing and eating vegetables is a good thing. Arguing about which one is more compassionate is unreasonable. There are arguments for both ways and what it comes down to is balance. Don't be a glutton. Don't eat more meat than you should because it isn't even healthy anyways. Don't eat less meat than you should either. Those are the guidelines. Keep them in mind and have good intentions about following them. That is looking at things from a grander perspective: health + equality amongst everyone and everything in this universe.

If you feel like it makes a big difference to you to be a vegetarian, then good. You are doing what makes you happy and what you feel is right. I have no argument for or against it strong enough to get more specific than the grand perspective that I stated above. I choose not to walk around in golf shoes all day to decrease the chance of my stepping on a bug. However, I do look where I step most times and I always avoid doing so. Sometimes it's just not possible. I was running the other day and squooshed a slug. If that gets me a negative karma, oh well. I hope that the hundreds of times that I stepped out of the way of a bug or an animal makes up for it. I do the best I can.


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Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.


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