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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: Smokey420]
    #19750845 -

Smokey420 said:
Do i have to point this out again "Libertarian Syndclist" Notice the Libertarian in there. We strongly disagree with Marx's idea of a "temporary dictatorship of the proletariat" Or the need of a state all together.


You can call yourself anything you want, even invent some new goobledegook.  Whatever you come up with you are still a socialist.


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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19750856 -

You going to put out an actual argument instead of just disagreeing with everything i say?


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Workers of Shroomery Unite!

Warning: Everything I say is possibly a work of fiction.
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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: Smokey420]
    #19750864 -

I'm trying to work with you here man.


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Workers of Shroomery Unite!

Warning: Everything I say is possibly a work of fiction.
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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: Smokey420]
    #19750879 -

And yes I'm still a socialist because I believe in a economic model of common ownership.


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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: Smokey420]
    #19751030 -

So what does that do to private property, Komrade?  Aside from the fact that I think private property is the single most important conceptual engine of prosperity I reject absolutely the idea of the Kollektif, that it has an interest and that the individual is subordinate to it.  Socialism is for cowards and thugs.  If you don't like what you perceive to be an oligarchy of the capitalist successes who do not, by the way, succeed at the point of a gun, what do you think you get with socialism?  Thugs with guns enforcing doctrine.  Every Time.


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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19751139 -

Why cant you get it through your thick skull that Socialism has nothing to do with policy? Its an economic model.  If we can't even get past that barrier in your understanding then there is no point in arguing. :doublefacepalm:


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Workers of Shroomery Unite!

Warning: Everything I say is possibly a work of fiction.
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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: Smokey420] * 3
    #19751210 -

Only its not just an economic model man. Youre kind of delusional.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: Shins] * 2
    #19751240 -

You cannot separate economic socialism from policy socialism, one relies on the other to succeed. You cannot repress property rights without coercion by the state at the point of a gun. How would a socialist economic model exist without socialist public policy as well?


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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19751263 -

Socialism: An economic model based on common ownership.
Marxism: A political ideology based of the witting of Karl Marx.
Stalinism: State capitalism labeled as Communism.
Communism: an Economic and political ideology.
Syndicalism: ideology based on workers common ownership of their factory or business.

You can learn this stuff in free online textbooks for political science classes.

You keep confusing Socialism with Communism.


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Workers of Shroomery Unite!

Warning: Everything I say is possibly a work of fiction.
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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: Smokey420]
    #19751287 -

How would the common ownership model be enforced?


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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: Smokey420]
    #19751306 -

Smokey420 said:
Venezuela was doing well while Chavez was still alive,


"...The very people most active in pursuing such a vision of self-organized liberation were actively thwarted by Chavez — many of them rotting away in his prisons. As I learned from C4SS comrade Charles Johnson, Chavez suppressed the independent labor movement, put Bolivarian cronies in charge of yellow-dog unions in nationalized industries, and “employ[ed] strike-breaking tactics that would have made Frick proud.” And his massive distribution of oil revenue to the urban poor came from an oil industry dependent on “constant campaigns of state dispossession and police violence against indigenous communities in oil-rich regions...”
Not to Praise, but Bury Him ~Kevin Carson


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"People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna

"You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life.
And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore

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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19751323 -

also can you find any formal definitions that actually agree with what you're saying?


http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Socialism.html
Socialism—defined as a centrally planned economy in which the government controls all means of production


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
so·cial·ism noun \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
: a way of organizing a society in which major industries are owned and controlled by the government rather than by individual people and companies


http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/socialism
A political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.


http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/american-english/socialism
socialism
noun     /ˈsoʊ·ʃəˌlɪz·əm/
any economic or political system based on government ownership and control of important businesses and methods of production


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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: Smokey420]
    #19751332 -

Smokey420 said:
Why cant you get it through your thick skull that Socialism has nothing to do with policy? Its an economic model.  If we can't even get past that barrier in your understanding then there is no point in arguing. :doublefacepalm:


Why can't you get it through your thick skull that it can never exist without being forcibly imposed?


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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19751343 -

It would be enforced by morality and common sense.  (if you leave out the state from the process) Don't confuse common ownership with the myth that you won't own anything, or that someone would steal your personal belongings.

I'm not arguing for state socialism. Just trying to point out socialism at its core is simply an economic model.

The last definition is correct, the others are opinionated pieces written by capitalists.


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Workers of Shroomery Unite!

Warning: Everything I say is possibly a work of fiction.
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Edited by Smokey420 (03/26/14 05:06 PM)

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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19751360 -

I don't know, maybe because it has exited in the past without being forcibly imposed.


--------------------
Workers of Shroomery Unite!

Warning: Everything I say is possibly a work of fiction.
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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: Smokey420]
    #19751381 -

Quote:
The last definition is correct, the others are opinionated pieces written by capitalists.


The last definition:
"any economic or political system based on government ownership and control of important businesses and methods of production"
:facepalm:

Also i liked how you discounted the definitions that don't agree with you by saying they are biased capitalists :rofl2:

Quote:
It would be enforced by morality and common sense.


Nothing is stopping you from joining a commune right now. In fact under a capitalist system you'd be even more free to join one.


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Think for yourself, question authority

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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19751438 -

Communes generally die when the people who produce get sick of sharing with the leeches.


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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19751441 -

psyconaught said:
Quote:
The last definition is correct, the others are opinionated pieces written by capitalists.


The last definition:
"any economic or political system based on government ownership and control of important businesses and methods of production"
:facepalm:

Also i liked how you discounted the definitions that don't agree with you by saying they are biased capitalists :rofl2:

Quote:
It would be enforced by morality and common sense.


Nothing is stopping you from joining a commune right now. In fact under a capitalist system you'd be even more free to join one.


I meant the second from last definition. A political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Now if i really wanted to join a commune here in America, I would still have to pay taxes and expect frequent visits from the police. I can't simply exist outside the State here in America. There are Anarchist Communes in Greece, but I don't know a wink of Greek; and i doubt i could obtain citizenship in that country, much less afford the plain ticket.


--------------------
Workers of Shroomery Unite!

Warning: Everything I say is possibly a work of fiction.
Fuck you NSA

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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: Smokey420]
    #19751503 -

Quote:
Now if i really wanted to join a commune here in America, I would still have to pay taxes and expect frequent visits from the police. I can't simply exist outside the State here in America. There are Anarchist Communes in Greece, but I don't know a wink of Greek; and i doubt i could obtain citizenship in that country, much less afford the plain ticket.


At least you and i have some common ground here. I think you should be free to join a commune and be free of the state if you so decide. But as soon as you bring in socialist enforcement you become a coercive system. And just because you can nitpick and find a definition that kind of sort of fits with what you're trying to say doesn't make you any more right. Socialism is an economic and social policy that must be enforced to work correctly on a large scale.

Also you can get a one way trip to greece for cheep,


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Re: Are there any out-and-proud Socialists in this forum? [Re: Smokey420]
    #19751518 -

Besides the majority of communes that still operate in America are all a bunch of smelly hippies that I share no common ground with. I want common ownership of my workplace, I don't want to live with a bunch of lazy hippies.


--------------------
Workers of Shroomery Unite!

Warning: Everything I say is possibly a work of fiction.
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