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OfflineLearyfan
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Is the drug war anti-capitalist?
    #2975217 - 08/07/04 02:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I was reading a post by Mushmaster in support group where he said that the drug war is anti-capitalist. I assume that he means because the government is passing up billions in tax money and then wasting tax money on fighting the drug war.

Here?s my opinion on it. The drug war is very capitalist. Why? Because it?s protecting the system by keeping people concentrated on materialistic goals. If drugs such as marijuana and psychedelics were legal, it would cause the system to collapse. It would change the values and behavior of millions and cause people to become less concerned with materialism.

The drug war wastes BILLIONS of dollars trying to stamp out drugs and it rejects BILLIONS of dollars in tax money but this is a small price to pay for the system. It wouldn?t be able to survive if millions of people realized that we?re all one and then started to live accordingly.






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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: Learyfan]
    #2975244 - 08/07/04 02:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Personally, I think your premise that if mind-altering substances were legal everyone would wake up and realize we're all one, etc, is way off. But that is a subject for another forum. To answer your actual question, there is no way the war on drugs has anything to do with legitimate Capitalism unless you're using some asinine, counter-culture definition. A rational person can realize that Capitalism is not simply 'a system that encourages materialism and greed,' but is actually 'a system that encourages maximum freedom...so that you can pursue whatever it is you desire in life.' The drug war is extremely anti-capitalist.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Offlinepsikooz
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2975283 - 08/07/04 02:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
Personally, I think your premise that if mind-altering substances were legal everyone would wake up and realize we're all one, etc, is way off. But that is a subject for another forum. To answer your actual question, there is no way the war on drugs has anything to do with legitimate Capitalism unless you're using some asinine, counter-culture definition. A rational person can realize that Capitalism is not simply 'a system that encourages materialism and greed,' but is actually 'a system that encourages maximum freedom...so that you can pursue whatever it is you desire in life.' The drug war is extremely anti-capitalist.




Buddy you have no idea.


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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: psikooz]
    #2975302 - 08/07/04 02:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for informing me. I had no idea that I had no idea. Appreciate it.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2975317 - 08/07/04 02:42 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think you can call capitalism a system that encourages maximum freedom...maximum freedom of trade, yes.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2975351 - 08/07/04 02:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Well then I guess it all comes down to weither or not you believe that psychedelic drugs have the potential to cause massive behavior change or not.






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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: Learyfan]
    #2975369 - 08/07/04 03:02 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

They have the potential, sure, but I'm not sure if they would do that to most people. People who have bad trips are probably not going to think highly of psychedelics. A lot of people will have fun and be done with it, just like any other drug.

There's a lot of factors involved.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: Learyfan]
    #2975393 - 08/07/04 03:10 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Even if they have the potential I don't think most people want to change.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: psikooz]
    #2975418 - 08/07/04 03:18 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

psikooz said:
Buddy you have no idea.




He does show quite a bit more intelligence than someone who posts that he doesn't know what he's talking about, while not showing his own opinions, or reasons why the said person is incorrect.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: Learyfan]
    #2975428 - 08/07/04 03:21 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

It wouldn't be able to survive if millions of people realized that we're all one and then started to live accordingly.



If we were all one, we'd all have the same wants, needs, goals and desires.

We as a species will never be all one. Other than as a species.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: Learyfan]
    #2975429 - 08/07/04 03:21 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

The drug war is anti-capitalist. It is interfering in the free market in drugs. If you disagree, please explain how prohibiting the sale and purchase of goods is capitalistic. Please explain how taking accumulated capital away from people (asset forfeiture) is capitalistic.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (08/07/04 03:23 PM)


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: Evolving]
    #2975439 - 08/07/04 03:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Good point. :thumbup:


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: cb9fl]
    #2975448 - 08/07/04 03:25 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Most people don?t want to change, but also most people do what everyone else is doing.

The psychedelic movement was spreading like wildfire in the sixties. If it hadn?t been shut down by the feds, it would have turned the world upside down for the better.

Even the people who didn?t do the drugs would be affected because of group think. Positivity, love and understanding would touch everyone. Some more than others, but still it would cause a desperately needed massive shift in consciousness.






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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: Learyfan]
    #2975467 - 08/07/04 03:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

so how would positivity, love and understanding touch mindless drugged out sheeple?

Face it man, hippies may have been one step towards a proper age of aquarius, but they were nothing but a step. Most of them were rich mindless people who later turned into yuppies, betraying everything they had "learned."


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2975482 - 08/07/04 03:36 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

It wouldn?t be able to survive if millions of people realized that we?re all one and then started to live accordingly.



If we were all one, we?d all have the same wants, needs, goals and desires.

We as a species will never be all one. Other than as a species.




I can?t prove it, but what I mean is that our true nature is spirit and that we are all equal parts of one spirit. We reliquished our memory of this so that we can play this illusionary game in this physical world.

Only in the physical world are there differences between us. In the spirit world there is no "you" and "me". There is no "me" and "George Bush". We are one spirit.






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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: Learyfan]
    #2975491 - 08/07/04 03:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Positivity, love and understanding are not anti-capitalist concepts.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: Evolving]
    #2975496 - 08/07/04 03:41 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Evolving said:
The drug war is anti-capitalist. It is interfering in the free market in drugs. If you disagree, please explain how prohibiting the sale and purchase of goods is capitalistic. Please explain how taking accumulated capital away from people (asset forfeiture) is capitalistic.




It's capitalistic to prohibit the sale of substances which would most certainly cause a massive shift in values because people would begin to value material things less and less. That's dangerous to a materialistic society.

In the long run it's in the best interest of a materialistic society to prohibit the use of drugs which would kill the thought that fuels it.






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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: Learyfan]
    #2975505 - 08/07/04 03:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Capitalism does not equal materialism (although the two do tend to go hand in hand).

Capitalism is free trade. The drug war is not free trade.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: Learyfan]
    #2975511 - 08/07/04 03:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I don't believe in the spirit world.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Is the drug war anti-capitalist? [Re: vampirism]
    #2975514 - 08/07/04 03:46 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Morrowind said:
so how would positivity, love and understanding touch mindless drugged out sheeple?

Face it man, hippies may have been one step towards a proper age of aquarius, but they were nothing but a step. Most of them were rich mindless people who later turned into yuppies, betraying everything they had "learned."




Most of the people who betrayed everything that they learned did it because they became confused, frustrated and just plain lost. Grace Slick said "It's hard to keep having faith in the movement when they keep picking off the leaders."

The government caused the movement to not work, and systematically re-brainwashed most of those people.






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