psyconaught said:

Smokey420 said:

Proud Libertarian Syndicalist right here.
What is Anarcho-Syndicalsim?

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i've always been curious. How do you (and others who follow ideals close to your own) plan to reach your goals? Would it be by coercion? Banning traditional work place capitalism from taking place? Forcing people into the type of work place formations you want? Or would it simply be convincing people to voluntarily join said organizations?

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my3rdeye said:

zappaisgod said:

Socialism is a proven failure time after time.  The shitstorm is coming for most of Europe like it has already devastated Greece, Spain and Portugal.

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Capitalism is a failure too so what? You people have wars to cram it down other nations throats. Maybe you should try minding your own fucking business about what other nations are doing. America is great too, unless you are in the dark skinned underclass. I don't have black or mexican ghettos in my nation since we are criticizing other countries.
I say fuck capitalism. Please explain why we are raping our planet for money? I live in oil country and i fail to understand this big rush to drill it all and sell it to China. Why? What is the point of this, when everything is gone do you expect to eat the money? Whats wrong with leaving stuff in the ground for our grand children? Capitalism has no grand plan, unless consume everything until it is all gone is a plan. The market will not magically fix it itself or whatever else you pie in the sky conservatives think. Capitalism is not some perfect system, it just manged to force itself on the world via Amerikkan war machine. I look forward to it's collapse.

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psyconaught said:

So if i refused to join in your socialist community and instead chose to be part of a free market laissez faire system would you take action or aggression against said system to prevent it from proliferating?

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Smokey420 said:

psyconaught said:

Smokey420 said:

Proud Libertarian Syndicalist right here.
What is Anarcho-Syndicalsim?

---

i've always been curious. How do you (and others who follow ideals close to your own) plan to reach your goals? Would it be by coercion? Banning traditional work place capitalism from taking place? Forcing people into the type of work place formations you want? Or would it simply be convincing people to voluntarily join said organizations?

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After the state is overthrown, everything would be voluntary.
People like myself would form our communities and organize them on the principles explained in the article I posted. No one is going to force you to join the community. If you do decide to join our community, and then decide to horde resources for private gain, you would likely go in-front of a citizens court where they would decide what to do based on the agreed upon standards of the said community.  Us Anarchists are very serious about everyone deserving a 2nd chance so you would likely be let off with a warning, after several offenses you would likely be banished from the community.  There are no jails or prisons in an Anarchist society. Banishment would most likely be the most serious form of punishment; although i do expect vengeance killings of open members of fascist organizations. This can't be helped, there are too many long lasting wounds and hatred for organizations like the KKK, The Nationalist Socialist Party, and the Golden Dawn of Greece. They would be shot.

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Smokey420 said:

psyconaught said:

Smokey420 said:

Proud Libertarian Syndicalist right here.
What is Anarcho-Syndicalsim?

---

i've always been curious. How do you (and others who follow ideals close to your own) plan to reach your goals? Would it be by coercion? Banning traditional work place capitalism from taking place? Forcing people into the type of work place formations you want? Or would it simply be convincing people to voluntarily join said organizations?

---

After the state is overthrown, everything would be voluntary.
People like myself would form our communities and organize them on the principles explained in the article I posted. No one is going to force you to join the community. If you do decide to join our community, and then decide to horde resources for private gain, you would likely go in-front of a citizens court where they would decide what to do based on the agreed upon standards of the said community.  Us Anarchists are very serious about everyone deserving a 2nd chance so you would likely be let off with a warning, after several offenses you would likely be banished from the community.  There are no jails or prisons in an Anarchist society. Banishment would most likely be the most serious form of punishment; although i do expect vengeance killings of open members of fascist organizations. This can't be helped, there are too many long lasting wounds and hatred for organizations like the KKK, The Nationalist Socialist Party, and the Golden Dawn of Greece. They would be shot.

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EddYerb said:

Because there are some people who would never give up their power. Unfortunately that's how it is. I used ton think that the world would gradually move towards an equal system in a peaceful manner, through hundreds of years of social change and democracy.

That's clearly idealistic, not that worldwide socialist revolution isn't. I'm sure it will happen at some point in our history, but not while I'm alive. 

Basically, it has to happen.

You all think that capitalism could function in some vaguely humanitarian way. Short of robots that will never happen.

None of you guys could live to anywhere near the level you do without billions of people slaving away on levels just above sustinence. Everything is about surplus. The only way we have ever got surplus is through domination and coercion and underpayment.  Coercion is how the world has always be run, no matter what picture Milton Friedman idealistically paints of the previous empires/ ages/ trading periods.

The laughable idea that we are free to choose is a Western-centric fallacy. You think people in Indonesia who work crushing their backs and killing their lungs were free to choose. Pah.

Bullshit, there will always have to be a huge, underpaid lower-class of people who support others. If you think that worldwide libertarianism will solve this then you are a fool. Capitalism always created monopolies, because money is quantifiable power. Libertarianism in just the US also would not work, where would you get your goods? Trade for them?  You think a country with no infrastructure would have a valuable currency? Or would it be worldwide libertarianism? In which case there would be billions who had no option but to do work that is available at the price offered to them, which would be the lowest possible price they could get away with.

Capitalism is ultimately a system based on underpaying people as much as you can get away with. Total capitalism would be just as bad, possibly worse(?), than it is now. Perfect information is not even available in an age where governments can force companies to provide it. So how the fuck can you think that less regulation will allow for that?? You have to realise all of the brutal hardships that are necessarily landed on others in order  for us to live the way we do.

That's probably why, when there is a revolution, it will be us in the West that are revolted against. For we know nothing of hardship, we are all bourgeoisie, living off the backs of others, whilst not even recognizing the fact.


And why would people have to die?? Because they have always had to. People like power. That is the history of the world. Unfortunately. And because the West has the power, we will probably be the ones killed.

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EntheogenicJourney said:

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EntheogenicJourney said:

Quote:

Without increased production living standards must decline.

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Not necessarily.  The native people who live/lived off the land seem to be quite happy until greedy Europeans/Americans come in and fuck it all up.

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Smokey420 said:

psyconaught said:

Smokey420 said:

Proud Libertarian Syndicalist right here.
What is Anarcho-Syndicalsim?

---

i've always been curious. How do you (and others who follow ideals close to your own) plan to reach your goals? Would it be by coercion? Banning traditional work place capitalism from taking place? Forcing people into the type of work place formations you want? Or would it simply be convincing people to voluntarily join said organizations?

---

After the state is overthrown, everything would be voluntary.
People like myself would form our communities and organize them on the principles explained in the article I posted. No one is going to force you to join the community. If you do decide to join our community, and then decide to horde resources for private gain, you would likely go in-front of a citizens court where they would decide what to do based on the agreed upon standards of the said community.  Us Anarchists are very serious about everyone deserving a 2nd chance so you would likely be let off with a warning, after several offenses you would likely be banished from the community.  There are no jails or prisons in an Anarchist society. Banishment would most likely be the most serious form of punishment; although i do expect vengeance killings of open members of fascist organizations. This can't be helped, there are too many long lasting wounds and hatred for organizations like the KKK, The Nationalist Socialist Party, and the Golden Dawn of Greece. They would be shot.

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zappaisgod said:

So, at the point of a gun then.  Scratch a socialist and you find a thug.  Every time.

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setb said:

Smokey420 said:

psyconaught said:

Smokey420 said:

Proud Libertarian Syndicalist right here.
What is Anarcho-Syndicalsim?

---

i've always been curious. How do you (and others who follow ideals close to your own) plan to reach your goals? Would it be by coercion? Banning traditional work place capitalism from taking place? Forcing people into the type of work place formations you want? Or would it simply be convincing people to voluntarily join said organizations?

---

After the state is overthrown, everything would be voluntary.
People like myself would form our communities and organize them on the principles explained in the article I posted. No one is going to force you to join the community. If you do decide to join our community, and then decide to horde resources for private gain, you would likely go in-front of a citizens court where they would decide what to do based on the agreed upon standards of the said community.  Us Anarchists are very serious about everyone deserving a 2nd chance so you would likely be let off with a warning, after several offenses you would likely be banished from the community.  There are no jails or prisons in an Anarchist society. Banishment would most likely be the most serious form of punishment; although i do expect vengeance killings of open members of fascist organizations. This can't be helped, there are too many long lasting wounds and hatred for organizations like the KKK, The Nationalist Socialist Party, and the Golden Dawn of Greece. They would be shot.

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What is it with you people and murdering folks with political views you don't agree with? That seems to be the common thread between socialists whether they are on the left or right. We have seen this play out during the last century and it seems a few of you have the stones to admit it here.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

zappaisgod said:

So, at the point of a gun then.  Scratch a socialist and you find a thug.  Every time.

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The reality today is that capitalism is the only system that forces itself on others at the point of a gun.

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Smokey420 said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

zappaisgod said:

So, at the point of a gun then.  Scratch a socialist and you find a thug.  Every time.

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The reality today is that capitalism is the only system that forces itself on others at the point of a gun.

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Smokey420 said:

Because you are forced into the system unless you want to starve or go to jail. But maybe I should correct myself in saying that its crony capitalism. You say there has never been a pure capitalist society so I won't judge your form of capitalism... Yet.

Can you explain to me how poor family's and the homeless would acquire food if their job doesn't pay enough money in your desired system?

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Smokey420 said:

Because you are forced into the system unless you want to starve or go to jail. But maybe I should correct myself in saying that its crony capitalism. You say there has never been a pure capitalist society so I won't judge your form of capitalism... Yet.

Can you explain to me how poor family's and the homeless would acquire food if their job doesn't pay enough money in your desired system?

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