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Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist?
    #18046268 -

I'll take obliteration over eternal suffering any day. The ending of my existence isn't even a bad thing, its more a neutral thing. If I don't exist, I'm pretty sure I won't give a fuck about not existing lol.

Eternal suffering on the other hand, I hope that doesn't even exist, I hope existence isn't that harsh. The Christian concept of it is just silly (a "merciful" God condemning souls to eternal suffering for petty things like stealing or being an atheist etc.), what I mean by hell is the fact I don't know what this reality/existence thing is and I don't know how bad things can get. What I do know is this: if I was God (by that I just mean something that has the power to decide the eternal fate of souls/spirits/whatever), I wouldn't condemn anyone or anything to eternal suffering. Everyone (including the most evil people that have ever lived) deserves salvation, and nobody deserves eternal suffering. There is nothing anyone can even do in this life thing to make them deserve something so infinitely harsh as that. Rather than hell, I would implement what would best be called purgatory. Not the Christian concept of a waiting room, but rather suffering which purges one of their evil, similar to what severe suffering seems to do to me. Only through this spiritual purification can one ascend this 3D reality thing. Maybe thats what suffering is. I know thats the effect it has on me, when I suffer I start seeing the error in my ways and start repenting for my evil traits, but I don't know if this is how it is for everyone or what.

If there is a divine creator of it all, then I'm pretty sure I'm not morally and spiritually more evolved than it, so everyone would have salvation. I'm not sure if the concept of a creator even applies to this reality/existence thing. Maybe the reality is more complex than what we can even comprehend with 3D logic. I don't know. Gonna just keep exploring. I'm going to do my first ayahuasca session very soon, once I get the money. I wanna do it with a therapist/shaman my first time, then after that I'll do it with the Santo Daime church (they charge you very little to attend their ceremonies).


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…...,~__________________, ,.
….../ `—___________—-___]Give a man a gun
…../_==o;;;;;;;;_______.:/he can rob a bank.
…..), —.(_(__) /
….// (..)),````
…//__/Give a man a bank,he can rob the world!
.//__/

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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: CrimpJiggler]
    #18046399 -

If I went to hell, would I ever come out? Or am I there for eternity?

I feel like I went to "hell" on salvia one time. It literally felt like eternal suffering when in my reality it was a matter of minutes. Having said this, I would rather exist in some kind of way even if I'm suffering rather than cease to exist completely.

The process of living right now is suffering, would I rather live this life and suffer or commit suicide so I "cease to exist?":shrug:


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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: CrimpJiggler]
    #18046433 -

I wouldn't worry about going to hell.  First and foremost, it's a make-believe bullshit notion designed to keep adults thinking and behaving like six-year-olds.  Easier to herd them that way.  Second, even if it did exist, I'm sure some of our best friends are there.  So it would be a grand old reunion of sorts.

Overcome irrational fear:  Lesson #1 for those on a spiritual path of any kind.

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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: SycoNautix]
    #18046834 -

SycoNautix said:
If I went to hell, would I ever come out? Or am I there for eternity?

I feel like I went to "hell" on salvia one time. It literally felt like eternal suffering when in my reality it was a matter of minutes. Having said this, I would rather exist in some kind of way even if I'm suffering rather than cease to exist completely.

The process of living right now is suffering, would I rather live this life and suffer or commit suicide so I "cease to exist?":shrug:


Eternal. If it wasn't eternal, then I'd just tough it out. In this lifetime there are ups and downs. Right now I'm not suffering. Things are fine right now. It seems I can avoid lifes suffering by being high all the time, but in this shitty society, the hard part is remaining high because drugs are so expensive. Maybe its all just an illusion, maybe we suffer no matter what and these perceived causes of suffering are just something reality uses to give us an explanation for why we are suffering. Maybe we are in a metaphysical cattle pen being herded by macroscopic hyperdimensional entities. Or like lab rats. Would the rat have any idea that the reason it is perpetually suffering is because its environment and life has been artificially created by humans, and that they choose (in the name of science) to make suffering a part of its life? 

To those animals, we are kinda like Gods. We could break into a lab and free them from their artificially created lives of suffering. Doesn't it make you feel like breaking some gorillas out of the zoo



all this beauty: I'm guessing you only read the title and responded lol. I'm not talking about Christian hell. I'm talking the kinda thing SycoNautix mentioned. Getting stuck in eternal suffering. I've had similar experiences on salvia too. Time is clearly an illusion.


--------------------
…...,~__________________, ,.
….../ `—___________—-___]Give a man a gun
…../_==o;;;;;;;;_______.:/he can rob a bank.
…..), —.(_(__) /
….// (..)),````
…//__/Give a man a bank,he can rob the world!
.//__/

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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: CrimpJiggler]
    #18047675 -

CrimpJiggler said:
Eternal. If it wasn't eternal, then I'd just tough it out.

It seems I can avoid lifes suffering by being high all the time, but in this shitty society, the hard part is remaining high because drugs are so expensive.

Maybe its all just an illusion, maybe we suffer no matter what and these perceived causes of suffering are just something reality uses to give us an explanation for why we are suffering. Maybe we are in a metaphysical cattle pen being herded by macroscopic hyperdimensional entities. Or like lab rats. Would the rat have any idea that the reason it is perpetually suffering is because its environment and life has been artificially created by humans, and that they choose (in the name of science) to make suffering a part of its life? 




Yeah these are all things I have thought about in the past. I don't think we can even begin to grasp what eternal or the concept of infinite is so I don't believe I can answer your question. The time we are alive in this world is not even a fraction of a grain of sand on the universal timeline.

I've always had a feeling that something "was up" though in reference to your cattle pen/lab rat analogy. I've given up trying to think too much about these things because I will never know the answer.

I was watching a Joe Rogan video the other day and he was saying that life is basically like waking up in some kind of spaceship with no idea how to operate it. The process of living involves us trying to figure out how to operate it by reading the manual and trying to make it work. Kind of unrelated but I just remembered that and thought it was interesting.


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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: SycoNautix]
    #18047731 -

I actually believe Death is simply a release and basically eternal sleep. I personally believe Heaven and Hell are merely metaphors about our current position in life, we have times of Heaven and times of Hell. Ceasing to exist completely having no existence is "Heaven" enough for me. No more pain, no more anything. This allows me to appreciate life far more. I enjoy the best of what I have now, and when it ends, I'm dead, period.

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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: all this beauty]
    #18050877 -

all this beauty said:
I wouldn't worry about going to hell.  First and foremost, it's a make-believe bullshit notion designed to keep adults thinking and behaving like six-year-olds.  Easier to herd them that way.  Second, even if it did exist, I'm sure some of our best friends are there.  So it would be a grand old reunion of sorts.

Overcome irrational fear:  Lesson #1 for those on a spiritual path of any kind.


Agree with most of what u said. But it's also Lesson #1 for those of us who aren't on any spiritual path of any kind.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: CrimpJiggler]
    #18055832 -

Hell will be the eternal place of suffering for most of mankind.  I do not say this lightly by any means because a glimpse of hell was given to me. 

This encounter stirred me to an all consuming fear of God.  In my darkest hour while laying awake one night, my field of vision burst into flames as my body was engulfed with intense burning sensations.  One of the few times I can remember a distinct voice of God speaking to me, He said the following while I was living in rebellion:

"You can go your way, or you can go My way."

Fear is definitely a legitimate way for God to get our attention.  I chose to go His way, I knew He wasn't playing around -- Jesus is that Way.

Now I have had similar questions about hell myself, as it is more dreadful and fearful than our imaginations can fathom or any of the worst salvia trips.  The way I understand it is that we as evil men do not understand our offense against a good God. A good God must judge wickedness as any good judge here on earth must do. 

A crime against an infinite being demands infinite justice.  Take for instance the following example of what I am saying:  If you kill an ant it is different relative to killing a dog, which is on another level to killing an infant -- take that to an infinite level --God--- the punishment will fit the crime.

I trust God's judgment as He is most certainly good.  The problem is we are not good and do not see how serious that reality is.

BUT--

The blood of Jesus fully satisfied God's justice.  He bore our sin and paid the price we never could.  He being fully God and fully man could do this and act as our intermediary. By placing our faith in the finished work of Jesus, we partake of the reward of His perfect sinless life.  Mercy triumphs over judgment.

If your neighbor's house was on fire, you would warn him.  So too should those who know the certain reality of such a place as hell.  It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: palmersc]
    #18055896 -

palmersc said:
Hell will be the eternal place of suffering for most of mankind.  I do not say this lightly by any means because a glimpse of hell was given to me.


Brother, every bona fide user of psychedelics has had, at least once (and only once, if he's lucky), a rock'em/sock'em-mother-of-all-mercies glimpse of hell.  If they tell you otherwise, don't believe them.

It's all in your brain, though.  That miraculous ball of gray matter that sits at the top of your head.

It's not for real.

It's imaginary.

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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: all this beauty]
    #18055908 -

Oh--- this experience I shared was while fully sober, awake. 

I know God wasn't messing around, had I not heeded this warning I fear it would not have gone well with me as I had already shrugged off much correction from the Father at this point in my life.

I do not speak theoretically about these things.  I pray it is this side of eternity that you understand the reality of hell as this life precedes an eternal existence in one of two places -- heaven or hell, no in between.

The message of judgement and eternal condemnation must always be balanced with the grace and mercy and love of God found in the cross.  I shared the hope that mankind has if he will bow the knee to Jesus in my previous post:


The blood of Jesus fully satisfied God's justice.  He bore our sin and paid the price we never could.  He being fully God and fully man could do this and act as our intermediary. By placing our faith in the finished work of Jesus, we partake of the reward of His perfect sinless life.  Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Edited by palmersc (04/04/13 02:38 AM)

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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: Peace of Mind 1]
    #18055983 -

peace of mind 1 said:
I actually believe Death is simply a release and basically eternal sleep. I personally believe Heaven and Hell are merely metaphors about our current position in life, we have times of Heaven and times of Hell. Ceasing to exist completely having no existence is "Heaven" enough for me. No more pain, no more anything. This allows me to appreciate life far more. I enjoy the best of what I have now, and when it ends, I'm dead, period.


This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter too. Non-existence is scary but ultimately I think its release. If one's life was endless the personality would almost certainly begin to feel like an inescapable trap. There are times when non-existence almost sounds sweet. To continue to exist forever would be bad...to continue to exist forever solely to be tormented and tortured by a spiteful God who is butthurt because I didn't "find" him during the game of hide and go seek that my lifetime apparently was? I'd rather not exist.


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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil 
- Thomas Paine

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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: gluke bastid]
    #18056678 -

gluke bastid said:
To continue to exist forever would be bad...to continue to exist forever solely to be tormented and tortured by a spiteful God who is butthurt because I didn't "find" him during the game of hide and go seek that my lifetime apparently was? I'd rather not exist.


Well said.

I like your thoughts on "endless living."  There comes a point for every being -- animal or plant -- when things start to get old and rusty and it's time for nature to take its course and for the being to leave the scene.  I garden, and I observe that plants, over time, become leggy.  Not as robust. They stop producing as many flowers.  It's nature's way, I think, of saying "time for a change."

Those who live in fear of an imaginary hell have made for themselves their own hell on earth.  Their god is a sadistic monster who eternally punishes a segment of its own creation.  Life for them is a "test."  A trial.  An ordeal.

How sad.

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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: all this beauty]
    #18056922 -

all this beauty said:
gluke bastid said:
To continue to exist forever would be bad...to continue to exist forever solely to be tormented and tortured by a spiteful God who is butthurt because I didn't "find" him during the game of hide and go seek that my lifetime apparently was? I'd rather not exist.


Well said.

I like your thoughts on "endless living."  There comes a point for every being -- animal or plant -- when things start to get old and rusty and it's time for nature to take its course and for the being to leave the scene.  I garden, and I observe that plants, over time, become leggy.  Not as robust. They stop producing as many flowers.  It's nature's way, I think, of saying "time for a change."

Those who live in fear of an imaginary hell have made for themselves their own hell on earth.  Their god is a sadistic monster who eternally punishes a segment of its own creation.  Life for them is a "test."  A trial.  An ordeal.

How sad.


Yep and not only that, but they also refuse to see anyone happy. If you are happy then you are automatically "Dancing with the devil". Giving into pleasures for happiness is sin to them. I used to be Religious and every time I was happy I felt guilty because it must have been Satan provoking me to make life enjoyable for myself. It's bullshit, and I've been happier knowing no God exists.

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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: Peace of Mind 1]
    #18057049 -

peace of mind 1 said:
Yep and not only that, but they also refuse to see anyone happy. If you are happy then you are automatically "Dancing with the devil". Giving into pleasures for happiness is sin to them. I used to be Religious and every time I was happy I felt guilty because it must have been Satan provoking me to make life enjoyable for myself.


I'm fascinated by the fundamentalist (religious literalist) drug-using Christians who post here on the Shroomery.  If I were a sociology or psychology Ph.D candidate looking for a good dissertation subject, I'd definitely seek out those folks and interview them.

I can't begin to fathom the intellectual and emotional acrobatics they must go through in order to reconcile/justify, in their minds, their use of psychedelics.

But hey... pick and choose.  That's what fundamentalist religion is all about.

Pick and choose.

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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: all this beauty]
    #18057135 -

Exactly. In their eyes if it's ANYONE else, God is against it. If it's them, then there are nothing but excuses and false justifications being made. I call bullshit on it.

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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: all this beauty]
    #18057322 -

all this beauty said:
I'm fascinated by the fundamentalist (religious literalist) drug-using Christians who post here on the Shroomery.  If I were a sociology or psychology Ph.D candidate looking for a good dissertation subject, I'd definitely seek out those folks and interview them.

I can't begin to fathom the intellectual and emotional acrobatics they must go through in order to reconcile/justify, in their minds, their use of psychedelics.

But hey... pick and choose.  That's what fundamentalist religion is all about.

Pick and choose.



Psychedelics are indeed contrary to spiritual health and forbidden.  Yes, sobriety is clearly taught in the Scripture.  It was from the confusion and rebellion of my years of their heavy usage that Jesus met with me and showed me the fearful reality of judgment.  This is the vision of hell I shared.  That was 6 years ago.

The thread is about hell, and it is quite certain that such a place exists. I am in no place to tell God how to run His universe, and when we stand before Him, neither will we be able to. 

BUT,

There is hope for fallen humanity. Coming into agreement with God is about forsaking each of our own thrones -- that we are not in charge.  Perceiving ourselves as the gods of our own lives will be a short-lived fantasy riddled with emptiness and lack of meaning and purpose.  Then we will die. We are accountable to God for our choices.

The misconceptions about what peace with God looks like saddens me.  It is not about crossing all your T's to earn God's favor and assuming a stoic lifestyle of self-inflicted joylessness.  It is about walking with Jesus and learning from Him, receiving His love and that love overflowing to others around us.  A joy and peace which wells up deep within the soul.  Perhaps a rare thing to witness, but the lack thereof does not excuse each of us from responsibility before God.

He is a merciful God, but He is also a just God.  Justice was served at the cross, and by faith Jesus has paid my debt --- and all those who will trust in Him. A free gift which I am deeply grateful for and so I will forever serve my God for His great love which indeed escapes my comprehension.

It is with sadness that many will hear such words that I write here and scoff at them, but I pray that it be life to some who are able to hear.  Indeed mercy is now available in God's forbearance, but there will come a day in each of our lives when the last page will be written and then what I speak of will become sight.

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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: palmersc]
    #18057402 -

palmersc said:
Psychedelics are indeed contrary to spiritual health and forbidden.  Yes, sobriety is clearly taught in the Scripture.  It was from the confusion and rebellion of my years of their heavy usage that Jesus met with me and showed me the fearful reality of judgment.  This is the vision of hell I shared.  That was 6 years ago.


I'm relatively new to this board and haven't had the opportunity to read your over 400 posts here, but there are two questions in my mind that beg asking.  Would you be so kind as to answer them for me?

(1)  Do you currently use psychedelics?

(2)  If not, why do you post on this board?  Is it to persuade those of us who do of the error of our ways?

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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: palmersc]
    #18057503 -

I feel I have been given plenty of visions of hell and use nonexistence as a way out of believing in life after death.  However, I have an interest in liberation from the flesh/being released from the body as a point of light.  Also there seems to be a party somewhere for what seem to be the dead that don't believe in Jesus.  I'm harassed by 'angles of christianity' (their words) daily and am developing quite the hatred for their mind control system and their kind.  I would rather cease to exist at this point then be joined in an afterlife experience with them.  I don't have enough proof yet that the Christian God exists even though I've had several visions of Christ.  Nonexistence seems easy.

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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: all this beauty]
    #18057609 -

all this beauty said:
(1)  Do you currently use psychedelics?

(2)  If not, why do you post on this board?  Is it to persuade those of us who do of the error of our ways?



No, I have not tripped in about 6 years.  Moderately heavy and high doses of mushrooms and LSD regularly for a couple years before that.

I very rarely visit this board, and do not make it a point to evangelize on a regular basis -- as evidenced by my post count.  However, you could say I feel compelled to share with others the dangers of such occult practices--psychedelics opening up one to the spiritual realm, also known as sorcery in the Scripture.  There is indeed a spiritual reality all about us, but there are acceptable and unacceptable ways of relating to it.

Text over the internet is not so good a medium for conveying the power of God, but I have had PM conversations over the years which have led to further discussion with some who stumble across my posts.  I keep primarily to this forum, as taking the positions I do is within the acceptable guidelines of discussion here.


I know that hell is real, and Jesus spoke more about it than heaven.  If even one reconsiders the path he is on, sharing such truth is worth my efforts.

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Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: palmersc]
    #18057773 -

palmersc said:
I very rarely visit this board, and do not make it a point to evangelize on a regular basis -- as evidenced by my post count.  However, you could say I feel compelled to share with others the dangers of such occult practices--psychedelics opening up one to the spiritual realm, also known as sorcery in the Scripture.  There is indeed a spiritual reality all about us, but there are acceptable and unacceptable ways of relating to it.


Thank you for your candor.

I leave it up to the moderators as to whether your presence on the board constitutes a broad-brush attempt to discredit and slur the readers and posters here. 

I know of no other board where someone whose purpose is to "broad-brush" in such a manner would be permitted to continue to post.  In effect, you're attempting to derail the purpose of the board.  In internet board parlance, it's called "trollery."

But again, the decision belongs to the moderators.

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