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Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #17244175 -

dustinthewind13 said:
Homophobia is against human nature, not homosexuality. Over 400 animal species exhibit homosexual behavior, including humans, but only humans are homophobic.



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Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: The Vapor]
    #17244411 -

"According to geneticist Simon Levay in 1996, "Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity"

Maybe if animals had the logic to, they would find it not in their nature.


--------------------
The five colors blind the eye,
The five tones deafen the ear,
The five flavors dull the taste.

Racing and hunting madden the mind,
Precious things lead one astray.

Therefore the sage is guided by what he feels and not what he sees.
He lets go of this and chooses that.

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Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: The Alaskan Dude]
    #17245312 -

The key word there is rare, which implies that long term same sex relationships do happen in the animal kingdom.

And I don't get what you mean by logic. If animals became aware of their own behavior, they would realize that behavior doesn't exist?


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"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: dustinthewind13] * 2
    #17245410 -

dustinthewind13 said:
The key word there is rare, which implies that long term same sex relationships do happen in the animal kingdom.

And I don't get what you mean by logic. If animals became aware of their own behavior, they would realize that behavior doesn't exist?


I think it's grossly unfair two male giraffes can't get married and get the same benefits that straight giraffes who tied the knot get.

Grossly.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #17245432 -

I know, right? :mad2:


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #17245670 -

dustinthewind13 said:
I know, right? :mad2:




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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #17247953 -

Quote:
If animals became aware of their own behavior, they would realize that behavior doesn't exist?


No, they would realize it exists but might see it is a fetish, which it is. I honestly doubt theirs a deep emotional connection between homosexual animals. You won't make any good points splitting hairs. It's unnatural, plain and simple. People may be born with chromosome deficiencies (less than 1% of the population), but that aside, anything else is developed after birth. Why don't we let people get married to animals? Maybe they were born attracted to animals :wink:


--------------------
The five colors blind the eye,
The five tones deafen the ear,
The five flavors dull the taste.

Racing and hunting madden the mind,
Precious things lead one astray.

Therefore the sage is guided by what he feels and not what he sees.
He lets go of this and chooses that.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: The Alaskan Dude]
    #17247999 -

Do you think there is a deep emotional connection between heterosexual non human animals? Also, I'm not saying homosexuality is a fetish, but what would the difference between a fetish and sexual attraction be? And if homosexuality is not something inherent in the individual, where do you think it comes from? And what does chromosome deficiency have to do with this?



--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

Edited by dustinthewind13 (11/19/12 08:01 PM)

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Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: The Alaskan Dude]
    #17248010 -

:imout:


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Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: The Alaskan Dude] * 1
    #17248083 -

I could be mistaken, but to me, it appears you are generalizing  homosexuality as some sort of fetish.
I know gays who have been married for a very long time and genuinely love each other.

I cannot take seriously the notion that deep human bonds, especially one's that carry into old age where the sex drive has all but completely diminished are solely based on fetishism.


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To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.

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Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: The Alaskan Dude] * 2
    #17307110 -

Quote:
No, they would realize it exists but might see it is a fetish, which it is. I honestly doubt theirs a deep emotional connection between homosexual animals. You won't make any good points splitting hairs. It's unnatural, plain and simple. People may be born with chromosome deficiencies (less than 1% of the population), but that aside, anything else is developed after birth.


I don't know why I expect to find enlightened people on this Board only to be constantly disappointed. (Where does one find the "Feels Bad, Man" Guy to add to posts like this?) Further, I wonder if the Westboro Baptist Church has a branch near The Alaskan Dude. I'm sure their philosophies would mesh well.


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"Participate joyfully in the sorrows of life." - Joseph Campbell

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Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: The Alaskan Dude]
    #17307490 -

goliath_91710 said:
I don't know why I expect to find enlightened people on this Board only to be constantly disappointed. (Where does one find the "Feels Bad, Man" Guy to add to posts like this?) Further, I wonder if the Westboro Baptist Church has a branch near The Alaskan Dude. I'm sure their philosophies would mesh well.


:lol:


The Alaskan Dude said:
No, they would realize it exists but might see it is a fetish, which it is.


You really should read that list of debate fallacies - your argument is loaded with them.

It isn't a fetish - do you even know what a fetish is? This is accepted by the scientific community - you can say it is all you want but it doesn't change that it isn't.


Quote:
I honestly doubt theirs a deep emotional connection between homosexual animals. You won't make any good points splitting hairs.



*there's
How would you know? Why do you doubt it?
It has been proven some animals form bonds - why would it be any different for animals in a same sex relationship vs. a normal relationship?

Quote:
It's unnatural, plain and simple.



What basis do you have to claim that it is unnatural. Certainly the scientific community accepts that it is natural - so what do you base your argument off that it isn't? The burden of proof is on you - wow me.

Quote:
People may be born with chromosome deficiencies (less than 1% of the population), but that aside, anything else is developed after birth.



What do chromosome deficiencies have to do with this?
If you are attempting to imply that those with same sex attractions have a chromosome deficiency, I don't know what to say - you might want to learn some (basic) biology. But again, what would make you believe this?

Quote:
Why don't we let people get married to animals? Maybe they were born attracted to animals :wink:



:facepalm:
Straw man fallacy.
Also:
Animals do not have the ability to give consent. Other humans do. A huge difference. Marriage to children is also not allowed for the same reason.


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:brainondrugs:

You are not special :haha:

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Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: The Vapor]
    #17307568 -

The Vapor said:
:imout:


^:lol:

The poo.  The smell.
Anal sex can feel good.
I saw something called 'milking the prostate' in a movie when I was younger.
Men do fall in love.

I guess I don't have a problem with it.  Its just that the climax of falling in love - 'love' making - between two men plain grosses me out.

There is a way that we men can share sexual energy and our sexual consciousness.  If men are sexual toward one another for the purpose of turning on chakra systems and don't want sex with one another then we can bond more intimately and join energy systems/consciousness.

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Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #17440028 -

Yes, men do fall in love. I love my best friend, like a brother. No sexuality needed.

The burden of proof isn't just on me, it's on everyone here. I look at empirical data concerning the number of homogeneous homosexual relationships and I am astounded at the rarity of even one being found. Given the stipulation of homogamy pertaining to marriage, I do not believe homosexuality to fall into that category. Call it what you will, but not marriage.

Animals need to give consent for things? Is this a new law? When did an animal ever sign a paper agreeing to be owned by a family? When did my cat ever consent to be fed and pet by me? You call it strawman logic all you want to defer the argument, but the logic reigns true.


--------------------
The five colors blind the eye,
The five tones deafen the ear,
The five flavors dull the taste.

Racing and hunting madden the mind,
Precious things lead one astray.

Therefore the sage is guided by what he feels and not what he sees.
He lets go of this and chooses that.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: The Alaskan Dude]
    #17440032 -

I'm not impressed by referrals to posts about logical fallacies, I'm impressed by people who point those fallacies out.


--------------------
The five colors blind the eye,
The five tones deafen the ear,
The five flavors dull the taste.

Racing and hunting madden the mind,
Precious things lead one astray.

Therefore the sage is guided by what he feels and not what he sees.
He lets go of this and chooses that.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: The Alaskan Dude]
    #17440050 -

FishOilTheKid said:
The Vapor said:
:imout:


^:lol:

The poo.  The smell.
Anal sex can feel good.
I saw something called 'milking the prostate' in a movie when I was younger.
Men do fall in love.

I guess I don't have a problem with it.  Its just that the climax of falling in love - 'love' making - between two men plain grosses me out.

There is a way that we men can share sexual energy and our sexual consciousness.  If men are sexual toward one another for the purpose of turning on chakra systems and don't want sex with one another then we can bond more intimately and join energy systems/consciousness.


that wasn't meant as a double entendre by the way, lol.

The Alaskan Dude said:
First of all, lets just call it homosexuality, because I don't think its the 'sexual fluidity' most are uncomfortable with, its homosexual acts specifically.

Secondly, 'taboo' is really the wrong word to use in this situation. A sexual taboo would be the social comfortability with a man and a woman marrying out of context, such as strata, socio economic position, ethnicity, etc. The reason being because a taboo is concerning social customs. A custom is "A traditional and widely accepted way of behaving or doing something that is specific to a particular society, place, or time." I know many people will disagree with me, but humanity began as a heterosexual being with natural drives toward procreation.

This being said, it is impossible that sexual fluidity or homosexuality is a social taboo because it was never against a custom of some specific society, it has been against human nature from the get-go.

Follow the logic, it makes sense.


My sexuality is fluid, and I am human. Therefore it is part of human nature no?

Your logic makes far less sense.


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Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: The Vapor]
    #17440287 -

Your sexuality is fluid like Mein Kampf is sensical. Straw man that all you want, the logic holds. Its a psychological fetish. When speaking of human nature, we're speaking of more than animal nature, which is called instinct. Much more complicated. Therefore, I do not see homogeneous marriage between two males/females fluid. I see it as a flawed concept.


--------------------
The five colors blind the eye,
The five tones deafen the ear,
The five flavors dull the taste.

Racing and hunting madden the mind,
Precious things lead one astray.

Therefore the sage is guided by what he feels and not what he sees.
He lets go of this and chooses that.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: The Alaskan Dude]
    #17440293 -

"According to geneticist Simon Levay in 1996, "Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity"

Instinctually it is a rarity, then logically (something animals dont have) it is obsolete.


--------------------
The five colors blind the eye,
The five tones deafen the ear,
The five flavors dull the taste.

Racing and hunting madden the mind,
Precious things lead one astray.

Therefore the sage is guided by what he feels and not what he sees.
He lets go of this and chooses that.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: The Alaskan Dude]
    #17442131 -

The Alaskan Dude said:
Your sexuality is fluid like Mein Kampf is sensical.


:facepalm:

Where is your evidence for this? :shrug:


--------------------
To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.

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Re: Sexual fluidity and the taboo nature of male homosexuality. [Re: The Alaskan Dude]
    #17442228 -

The Alaskan Dude said:
Your sexuality is fluid like Mein Kampf is sensical. Straw man that all you want, the logic holds. Its a psychological fetish. When speaking of human nature, we're speaking of more than animal nature, which is called instinct. Much more complicated. Therefore, I do not see homogeneous marriage between two males/females fluid. I see it as a flawed concept.


You know nothing about my sexuality, so stop presenting facades to shield yourself and your broken logic behind.


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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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