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"Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument *DELETED*
    #16975583 -

Post deleted by LittleDipster

Reason for deletion: u


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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: LittleDipster]
    #16975673 -

I see death as we know it itself as belief, that we will cease to exist. Actually it is unknown.
I think soul is another name for self and I'm not sure about consciousness, but I think brain is not the source.

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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: LittleDipster]
    #16975706 -

I have no idea of what happens to consciousness after death, but I suspect it stops functioning, and doesn't migrate to a new body. My evidence for this is we can see consciousness degenerates as people reach old age.

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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: HeartAndMind]
    #16975711 -

I'll agree with most of what you said. I'll have to think about
Quote:
I think soul is another name for self



I'v never thought too much into that, thank you. 
I do also agree the brain is not the source of consciousness, I'm not quite sure what the source of all consciousness is, But I believe biology in a sense creates the structure and foundation for which consciousness can arise from and flow through.

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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: LittleDipster]
    #16975725 -

Biology did. And that structure and foundation is called the brain. :lol:

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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: White Beard]
    #16975744 -

Yes we see the brain and mind deteriorate throughout old age, but in my opinion the brain acts as nothing more than a biological "filter" for evolutionary purposes. I believe when you die your brain and "you" also die, but there is this piece of you, I would call it the soul, that will carry on. What exactly  the soul does I would think depends on how you lived you're past life and how you will live your next life



edit- yes I meant the brain :facepalm3: sorry, a bit sleep deprived.

Edited by LittleDipster (10/06/12 03:45 AM)

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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: LittleDipster]
    #16975760 -

It's okay, I'm up late myself. :smile:

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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: White Beard]
    #16975775 -

hehe I'm a bit nocturnal. Man I need Icelander in here to give me some of his views, I used to not like him when I joined shroomery but I can dig a lot of what he says now. Death Anxiety I believe to be very real, but I have little understanding of it.

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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: LittleDipster]
    #16976266 -

since you asked and have come to appreciate this old geezer, I see no evidence for life beyond death in 60 years of looking.  Most or all belief in it is imo death anxiety.  But there is no way to know for sure so one can always hope for some great outcome.  However that great outcome might  just be impermanence. :satansmoking:

If you want to understand death anxiety then starting with Ernest Beckers "Denial of Death" might be the best place to start.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: LittleDipster]
    #16976367 -

Quote:
I'm not quite sure what the source of all consciousness is, But I believe biology in a sense creates the structure and foundation for which consciousness can arise from and flow through.



Seems so, but I think self gives raise to consciousness in first place, because without the self there's no preception of consciousness.

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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: LittleDipster]
    #16976497 -

the cool thing about believing in life after death is you'll never be proved wrong. if everything disappears (?) when you die, then you're not there to try and save face. if on the other hand you say there's no life after death and there is (!) then that's pretty darn embarrassing i think :smile:

personally i side with the continuation of consciousness, though the details of such are a complete mystery to me, and i admit i might be wrong :lol:

here's a cool account of a NDE by a neurosurgeon who previously believed consciousness originated in the brain: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15461027


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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: deff]
    #16976545 -

deff said:
on the other hand you say there's no life after death and there is (!) then that's pretty darn embarrassing i think :smile:



If we all end up floating around in some communal afterlife, with expanded knowledge of life and death, don't you think it would be more embarrassing to admit that you believed something with no evidence?  The atheistic scientists will be hailed as heroes in the afterlife!  :lol:

Doesn't make sense either way as embarrassment is an emotion that belongs to living human beings, that's all we know.  :wink:

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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #16976581 -

it was a joke :tongue:

and there is evidence, only personal evidence (such as the thread i linked) - which means you either have to have these experiences yourself or put faith in others' testimonies of them in order to possibly use them as proof for yourself. i don't think we'll find empirical evidence really for it due to the nature of the question. but lots of people have NDE's and OBE's which are certainly not perfect evidence for continuation of consciousness but are at least some evidence that it might be possible i think. the link i gave is more interesting than most as it was a neurosurgeon with lots of neuroscience knowledge who couldn't explain his experience using it (since most of his brain was shut down in the coma).


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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: deff]
    #16978246 -

I was exposed to fundamentalist Christianity from a young age. I took it seriously through my adolescence, legitimately believing that I was spiritually attuned to the holy spirit. I spoke it tongues, and believed I had a spot in heaven reserved for me. As I emerged into greater consciousness in my mid-teens, I acquired a broader perspective of the world and universe. I saw Christianity as a particular instance of behavior universal to the local intelligence (homo sapiens); one that, in an anthropological sense is very easy to explain: uneducated tribesmen, fearful of death and an uncaring world, came up with a familiar and easily digestible mythos to explain the world.

Science offers deep, rich explanations for the scope and order in the universe; from the behavior of fundamental particles, to the arrangement of cosmological bodies, to the emergence of life. We are even beginning to understand much about our own minds, and there is countless evidence that reinforces the idea that we are our own brains and nothing more. There isn't any need whatsoever for mystical explanations, whats more, I don't even think these "deep truths" are real explanations to begin with. Just lazy, epistemically defunct hand waving.

So my answer to all four questions is yes; with a caveat that I believe in the soul after a fashion: it is entirely embedded within the structure of our brains, but nonetheless exists independently, in a platonic sense- much as the structure of software exists as an abstract concept yet requires a computer to actually be carried out.

But this doesn't mean that I am opposed to enlightenment, the communion of one soul to another, or even of spiritual transcendence. But these ends can only be attained by remaining firmly focused on what is actually real and demonstrable, and not the indulgent fantasies of our primal minds.

Edited by prozaic (10/06/12 04:40 PM)

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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: prozaic]
    #16978319 -

prozaic said:
I believe in the soul after a fashion: it is entirely embedded within the structure of our brains, but nonetheless exists independently, in a platonic sense- much as the structure of software exists as an abstract concept yet requires a computer to actually be carried out.


That's one definition of soul that I can get behind.  :thumbup:

I am obviously here and alive, whether made of meat or spirit is ultimately irrelevant.

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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: Sleepwalker] * 1
    #16979684 -

Quote:
there is countless evidence that reinforces the idea that we are our own brains and nothing more.


Care to provide some? Note: The fact that physical brain states correlate with mental experiences is not evidence of materialism, it is predicted by idealism also.

I think its funny how people claim there is all this evidence, because consciousness is a topic that has always interested me and I have kept fairly up to date with the research being done on it and yet I am unaware of this "countless evidence".

Edited by Deviate (10/06/12 09:00 PM)

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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: Deviate]
    #16980016 -

I think there is life after death because we are souls that have a temporary body. We are here to grow on a spiritual level.

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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: velja27]
    #16981732 -

velja27 said:
I think there is life after death because we are souls that have a temporary body.


That's a circular argument.

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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: LittleDipster]
    #16984009 -

deff said:
the cool thing about believing in life after death is you'll never be proved wrong. if everything disappears (?) when you die, then you're not there to try and save face. if on the other hand you say there's no life after death and there is (!) then that's pretty darn embarrassing i think :smile: ]


Hahah, that's good. :lol:

To answer the OP, for the questions like, "Is consciousness a product of the brain?" I have no answer really. I personally think it's more complicated than this black and white picture of the brain, but I'm not sure.

And it's interesting too, because a lot of people assume that if consciousness isn't a product of the brain and is some how immaterial, then we are eternal. What says that this immaterial consciousness (whatever it would be) isn't mortal as well?

As for the question of life after death, I don't think there's life after death, but we do continue. The evidence like, "We came from the earth, we return to the earth" kinda talk.

I don't believe in an afterlife, but I'm pretty sure it's to satisfy an emotional feeling of mine. The idea's that some people believe in a "heaven" which is really just a projection of a human's needs to be meet at a later date in the future. I, in the end, use the same argument, but reversed. My needs don't need to be met because they'll just disappear in the future. Everyone here suffers so much, and a lot of that suffering would cease if there was no "self." So if the self disappears when we die, then it's a good thing. :sun:


--------------------
Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses

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Re: "Life" after Death- Both Sides of Argument [Re: r72rock]
    #16984377 -

r72rock said:
deff said:
the cool thing about believing in life after death is you'll never be proved wrong. if everything disappears (?) when you die, then you're not there to try and save face. if on the other hand you say there's no life after death and there is (!) then that's pretty darn embarrassing i think :smile: ]


Hahah, that's good. :lol:

To answer the OP, for the questions like, "Is consciousness a product of the brain?" I have no answer really. I personally think it's more complicated than this black and white picture of the brain, but I'm not sure.

And it's interesting too, because a lot of people assume that if consciousness isn't a product of the brain and is some how immaterial, then we are eternal. What says that this immaterial consciousness (whatever it would be) isn't mortal as well?

As for the question of life after death, I don't think there's life after death, but we do continue. The evidence like, "We came from the earth, we return to the earth" kinda talk.

I don't believe in an afterlife, but I'm pretty sure it's to satisfy an emotional feeling of mine. The idea's that some people believe in a "heaven" which is really just a projection of a human's needs to be meet at a later date in the future. I, in the end, use the same argument, but reversed. My needs don't need to be met because they'll just disappear in the future. Everyone here suffers so much, and a lot of that suffering would cease if there was no "self." So if the self disappears when we die, then it's a good thing. :sun:




Dogen like your sig.


Tea or Stick you take your Pick,

Mushrooms or Tea first give you Stick,

Woof-Woof, Woof-Woof, Woof-Woof-Woof.

Does a Dog have Buddha Nature, Woof!


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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