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Anonymous

Beauty is an illusion
    #1373151 - 03/13/03 03:43 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Isn't it interesting that we find certain things more pleasing to the eye or ear than other things? These things are just programmed into us like our instincts, but we spend so much time picking out attractive mates, cars, clothes, et cetera.

I've finally come to the conclusion that beauty is indeed an illusion. It is absolutely nonexistent...or all-existent...pick one. If everything is made of the same matter, how could something possibly look or sound better than another thing? It can't, and this is just because human minds are programmed to think this way. When you really realize this, it's amazing to think how far we are from thinking objectively since we're always judging things by how they look or sound.

Next time you walk through a crowd of people, try to examine simply how every person looks, rather than how good they look. It's damn near impossible but if you can manage to do this for a few seconds it will be the most enlightening experience of your day.


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Offlinezzenix
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Re: Beauty is an illusion [Re: ]
    #1373184 - 03/13/03 04:01 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

In "Symposium" Plato presents the argument that the idea of Beauty exists whether or not there were humans around to perceive it...meaning we have an innate sense of what is Beautiful. Therefore, beauty is NOT in the eyes of the beholder...for example, when you see a person on the street, you can tell they are beautiful or not..but what is there to compare to? Only other people...sooo we must have the instinctual "idea" of supreme Beauty (God?). But..er..thats just what i learned in my philosophy of love class...


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: Beauty is an illusion [Re: ]
    #1373284 - 03/13/03 04:45 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I agree you with you on the point that as soon as you start to label something as beautiful, it really just ruins it. But I do believe there is such thing as beauty. Its just the certain way physical matter is grouped together, or the way a bird chirping is pleasing to the ear. If it is indeed an illusion I don't care, because what I feel is real.


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Anonymous

Re: Beauty is an illusion [Re: zzenix]
    #1373299 - 03/13/03 04:51 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I've always thought Plato was saying that everything contained the same amount of beauty (which exists outside of the beholder like you said). This quote from Symposium is what I'm referring to:

"...if he be guided by his instructor aright, to love one such form only -- out of that he should create fair thoughts; (210b) and soon he will of himself perceive that the beauty of one form is akin to the beauty of another; and then if beauty of form in general is his pursuit, how foolish would he be not to recognize that the beauty in every form is one and the same! And when he perceives this he will abate his violent love of the one, which he will despise and deem a small thing, and will become a lover of all beautiful forms..."

Basically he's saying is that beauty is all-existent. This is similar to what I was trying to say, but what I meant by beauty being nonexistent is the biased human concept of it.


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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: Beauty is an illusion [Re: ]
    #1373938 - 03/13/03 09:30 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I am too subjective to agree, but from my objective view I would agree. I was just looking at some fine-beautiful-aesthetically pleasing flesh at the store earlier. I thought of an article I read once. The article states that we actually get pleasant feelings when looking at an attractive person from the opposite sex (or whatever you please). I figure that is why I am an addict for looking at hot babes...they make me high!

Joshua


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Offlinesocratesmind
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Re: Beauty is an illusion [Re: Joshua]
    #1373986 - 03/13/03 10:04 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

well i think aesthetically pleasing has some roots buried in our noggin. such as people look for clean folks since cleanliness may represent a decent self-drive,feeling of self-worth,social status. alot can be told by the looks and i think we are made to look for certain attributes but society programs the rest such as what is attributed to those attributes.


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Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
- Abraham Lincoln: Speech in the Illinois House of Representatives, Dec 18, 1840.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Beauty is an illusion [Re: socratesmind]
    #1375072 - 03/14/03 07:39 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

This is true.

It is only our instincts that guide us twoards an 'attractive' mate- One who would more likely be able to fend for themselves through life and be furtile enough to pass on genes. Survivial of the fittest. :wink: 


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Beauty is an illusion [Re: Murex]
    #1375119 - 03/14/03 07:57 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Ever seen the movie Shallow Hal? haha
Great movie, and it backs up EVERYTHING you said. I advise all of you to watch it. (Besides, Jack Black is the best anyways)
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinequemo
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Re: Beauty is an illusion [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1375656 - 03/14/03 11:10 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

If i would make for instance a very very large skyscraper (i'm studying architecture so hence the example :smile: ) I could objectively say that for the human scale, by human perception i've made a very 'powerful/mighty' massive object. However, the one person detests power as such and would hate the building, the next one adores power in every aspect of life and loves the mass as a whole. The Objective part in this example is the oversized proportion in reference to the human scale, the subjective part is the personal (dis)appreciation of this aspect. So in conclusion i would say that parameters like 'soft', or 'hard', 'big' or 'small, warm or cold,' are objectively realisable taking human senses in account. The subjective part would make these parameters either 'beautiful' or 'hateful' or anything in between of course......



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Offline3eyedgod
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Re: Beauty is an illusion [Re: ]
    #1375692 - 03/14/03 11:19 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

It is absolutely nonexistent...or all-existent...pick one.

I vote all-existent.


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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OfflineLoverofEarth
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Re: Beauty is an illusion [Re: ]
    #1375719 - 03/14/03 11:29 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Beauty is not an illusion. Everything is beautiful, we just colour them with our own biases. Every being is unique and experiences the reality they are a part of in their own subjective way. Knowing yourself well enough to know all of your biases and distortions and set them aside is the closest we will come to objectivity. I think this is what is meant by complete self realization.


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Offlinequemo
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Re: Beauty is an illusion [Re: LoverofEarth]
    #1375771 - 03/14/03 11:53 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Perhaps you find creation beautiful and thus all the things in it.....and with that i agree on a PERSONAL note! and in that case it would be all-existent for ME


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Offlinequemo
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Re: Beauty is an illusion [Re: quemo]
    #1375888 - 03/14/03 12:37 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

and YOU


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OfflineViveka
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Re: Beauty is an illusion [Re: zzenix]
    #1376158 - 03/14/03 02:07 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

"...that which is not slightly distorted lacks sensible appeal: from which it follows that irregularity - that is to say, the unexpected, surprise and astonishment, are an essential part and characterisitc of beauty..."
-Charles Baudelaire

For me, the classical "aesthetic" sense of beauty still holds true. But since the human mind begins logging and categorizing examples of beauty from the instant they're born, we begin to need something to require something more to appreciate beauty. Not that we still can't recognize "beauty", but the classic examples become stale. Take Britany Spears for instance. Lots of dudes oogle over her,but i dont find her the least bit attractive, not because i think she's ugly, but because she lacks anything to set her apart from all the other "beatiful" blond teenage fucktoy stereotypes out there. There is nothing in her appeal which invokes vulnerability.


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OfflineLoverofEarth
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Re: Beauty is an illusion [Re: quemo]
    #1376307 - 03/14/03 03:14 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Eh my mistake. I should not have introduced a seemingly subjective idea into a post about objectivity. I just picked up the adjective beauty from the first post.

Each individual cell in our body might seem seperate when closely inspected. Is it really? Are we really seperate from the earth.. from the universe..are we not part of all that exists? Is there a single source for everything that exists or is it just chaos? I guess what it comes down to, is all that exists chaos or unity? ..eh, I'll have to come back to this when I'm more organized in my thoughts.


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Amazon Shop: Scales

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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