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Capitalism Kills
    #13345356 -




Now I don't have a problem with the concept with capitalism, if you take a look at like Monsanto it's just obvious that it's a evil corp.

Liberalizing the economy inherently leads to liberalization of political culture. This is why every democratic government is a fundamentally capitalist country


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Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak

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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: Nexius]
    #13345396 -

What exactly are you trying to say?

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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #13345417 -

Just sharing my opinion

Capitalism doesn't work with human nature, we're greedy, selfish and that combined with capitalism well...

Just doesn't work


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Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak

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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: Nexius]
    #13345813 -

Short answer:
I agree that many humans have thus far handled capitalism poorly, to the detriment of all (themselves included).

Long answer:
I agree, and sadly there are very few economic models that do work when unchecked human selfishness is factored in. But, like you inferred, it isn't the system that's the issue; it's the creature handling it.

Selfishness in general isn't actually a negative though. In fact, it's seen in every species recorded thus far, and it's the motivation for competition, which is the engine of both rapid advancement, and it's also a precursor to what is considered it's dark side; killing, exploitation, and deception. Sadly, from time to time, all of these things can be necessary, killing most of all, as seen everywhere (eg predation).

Even though it's vital for us as a species to work together for advancement, it's also equally important, in my opinion, that the individuals of a species are allowed the freedom to pursue and further their self-interests.

Capitalism in it's purest form is supposed to be virtually unrestricted, give or take a few rules to reduce fraudulent and violent practices. I think that capitalism, then, is quite excellent as a system, as it allows the citizens some of the greatest freedom of growth, which works with our natural selfishness to virtually force competition for survival insuring rapid, if somewhat unstable growth in technology and/or efficiency. Once a restriction is in place, it's very difficult to remove and it opens the door for similarly directed restrictions. This doesn't necessarily mean that all restrictions will come to be, but it's certainly not helping retain the freedoms of the citizen.

and so on. . . I've lost interest in my own rant. TLDR

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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: Nexius]
    #13346886 -

Nexius said:
Just sharing my opinion

Capitalism doesn't work with human nature, we're greedy, selfish and that combined with capitalism well...

Just doesn't work


Define: doesn't work.

(I have a feeling this will go nowhere...)

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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: Nexius]
    #13347340 -

Nexius said:
Just sharing my opinion

Capitalism doesn't work with human nature, we're greedy, selfish and that combined with capitalism well...

Just doesn't work


Actually, human nature is exactly why capitalism does inevitably function. It is also why any other economic system will inevitably fail on a large-scale basis.

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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: Redstorm] * 1
    #13347650 -

Redstorm said:
Nexius said:
Just sharing my opinion

Capitalism doesn't work with human nature, we're greedy, selfish and that combined with capitalism well...

Just doesn't work


Actually, human nature is exactly why capitalism does inevitably function. It is also why any other economic system will inevitably fail on a large-scale basis.


This.  I am consistently amazed that people who produce and want to keep the fruits of their labor are branded selfish and greedy while the loser assholes who don't produce but want to take from others are not.


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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: Redstorm]
    #13348157 -

Redstorm said:
Nexius said:
Just sharing my opinion

Capitalism doesn't work with human nature, we're greedy, selfish and that combined with capitalism well...

Just doesn't work


Actually, human nature is exactly why capitalism does inevitably function. It is also why any other economic system will inevitably fail on a large-scale basis.


Have you ever caught a fish, whacked it's skill and noticed that it's tail still flinched afterward. I think that this can be analogous to capitalism's function at times. Look at the great depression where capitalism failed to shit worldwide, it was a dead fish for decades. So shouldn't the premise be that all economic systems fail in a large-scale basis?


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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13348167 -

ScavengerType said:
Redstorm said:
Nexius said:
Just sharing my opinion

Capitalism doesn't work with human nature, we're greedy, selfish and that combined with capitalism well...

Just doesn't work


Actually, human nature is exactly why capitalism does inevitably function. It is also why any other economic system will inevitably fail on a large-scale basis.


Have you ever caught a fish, whacked it's skill and noticed that it's tail still flinched afterward. I think that this can be analogous to capitalism's function at times. Look at the great depression where capitalism failed to shit worldwide, it was a dead fish for decades. So shouldn't the premise be that all economic systems fail in a large-scale basis?


It was a "dead fish for decades" (not actually true but I'll play) because the socialist jackass FDR co-opted huge segments of the economy, which co-option we are still paying for.  See soc sec debacle.

Your analogies are stupid, simplistic and irrelevant.


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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13350766 -

Death to Capitalism! Rise of the Proletariats!

Hope I don't find a traking device on my car tomorrow. haha.


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Take a look at my journal

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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: Darwin23]
    #13351457 -

I don't think anybody gives a shit what you do.


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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13396344 -

It can also be said human nature is why communism and socialism will never work. No competition breeds entitlement to something that is not deserved.

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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: chushingura]
    #13396413 -

Darwin23 said:
Death to Capitalism! Rise of the Proletariats!


Lol...Kids. Go talk to that dog Che Guevara and see how well that worked out for him. Hope you don't mind adding "Executioner" to your resume.

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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: chushingura]
    #13396529 -

chushingura said:
It can also be said human nature is why communism and socialism will never work. No competition breeds entitlement to something that is not deserved.


Yes


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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13396758 -

zappaisgod said:
chushingura said:
It can also be said human nature is why communism and socialism will never work. No competition breeds entitlement to something that is not deserved.


Yes


Even I can understand that :thumbup:


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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!

"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise

No makin funna my pomes!

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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: chushingura]
    #13397160 -

chushingura said:
It can also be said human nature is why communism and socialism will never work. No competition breeds entitlement to something that is not deserved.


first of all.. human nature is too complex for shills like you to make broad..sweeping generalizations about it...

second of all..crony capitalism has been far more guilty of giving away undeserved entitlements than "communism" or "socialism" (which the right inevitably defines as anything thats not crony capitalism).. as witness goldman & sachs..the health insurance cartel..etc..etc...

zappaisgod said:
This.  I am consistently amazed that people who produce and want to keep the fruits of their labor are branded selfish and greedy while the loser assholes who don't produce but want to take from others are not.


as is often the case..you have it all backwards...ppl that are selfish and greedy are branded "producers" by mere virtue of wealth.. even though they in general get that way by taking it from others...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: Annapurna1]
    #13397276 -

Annapurna1 said:
chushingura said:
It can also be said human nature is why communism and socialism will never work. No competition breeds entitlement to something that is not deserved.


first of all.. human nature is too complex for shills like you to make broad..sweeping generalizations about it...

second of all..crony capitalism has been far more guilty of giving away undeserved entitlements than "communism" or "socialism" (which the right inevitably defines as anything thats not crony capitalism).. as witness goldman & sachs..the health insurance cartel..etc..etc...

zappaisgod said:
This.  I am consistently amazed that people who produce and want to keep the fruits of their labor are branded selfish and greedy while the loser assholes who don't produce but want to take from others are not.


as is often the case..you have it all backwards...ppl that are selfish and greedy are branded "producers" by mere virtue of wealth.. even though they in general get that way by taking it from others...


No


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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: Annapurna1]
    #13398157 -

Annapurna1 said:
first of all.. human nature is too complex for shills like you to make broad..sweeping generalizations about it...

second of all..crony capitalism has been far more guilty of giving away undeserved entitlements than "communism" or "socialism" (which the right inevitably defines as anything thats not crony capitalism).. as witness goldman & sachs..the health insurance cartel..etc..etc...



I disagree. Too whom am I a shill for? Behavior can be analyzed from the standpoint of getting resources whether they be physical, mental or spiritual. "How do I feed myself, provide shelter to keep the body warm, provide for the family, how do I maintain mental health so that I'm balanced in reality and can adapt to changes properly." These are all questions we answer or ignore daily. It's a question of to what extent do we make ourselves responsible for providing these things vs relying on society or government to do it for us. I'll put my faith in the self.

To me the United States is far closer to the original meaning of fascism than to capitalism and far closer to oligarchy than a republic. That is not a good thing. It's a lack of responsibility at the Federal Reserve, banking and government that will sink this country. I remember back in 2001, Hong Kong had the closest thing to capitalism on the planet. What does that say?

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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: Annapurna1]
    #13398273 -

zappaisgod said:
ScavengerType said:
Redstorm said:
Nexius said:
Just sharing my opinion

Capitalism doesn't work with human nature, we're greedy, selfish and that combined with capitalism well...

Just doesn't work


Actually, human nature is exactly why capitalism does inevitably function. It is also why any other economic system will inevitably fail on a large-scale basis.


Have you ever caught a fish, whacked it's skill and noticed that it's tail still flinched afterward. I think that this can be analogous to capitalism's function at times. Look at the great depression where capitalism failed to shit worldwide, it was a dead fish for decades. So shouldn't the premise be that all economic systems fail in a large-scale basis?


It was a "dead fish for decades" (not actually true but I'll play) because the socialist jackass FDR co-opted huge segments of the economy, which co-option we are still paying for.  See soc sec debacle.

Your analogies are stupid, simplistic and irrelevant.



I have to agree here... this seems quite possibly to be the case, and in any event the depression does not seem to be a great example of a situation where lack of government intervention in free markets led to badness- to say the least.

Why is it that when complaining of the effects of capitalist markets, the examples given of such are inevitably economies with the most comprehensive regulation and regulatory apparatuses?  I'm forever hearing of the banks, the auto companies, historic monopolies, et cet being examples of free markets failing-  I don't understand :confused:

zappaisgod said:
chushingura said:
It can also be said human nature is why communism and socialism will never work. No competition breeds entitlement to something that is not deserved.


Yes


Perhaps the most fundamental problem is that socialism eliminates all competition and creates a monopoly of massive scale (with police and legislative power to boot) in order to prevent the amassing of wealth and undue influence in certain.  What the fuck?  It doesn't even make sense in with the simplest analysis.


Annapurna1 said:
chushingura said:
It can also be said human nature is why communism and socialism will never work. No competition breeds entitlement to something that is not deserved.


first of all.. human nature is too complex for shills like you to make broad..sweeping generalizations about it...


Anna, you've been doing this several times lately.  I think you should stop calling people shills.  It makes them angry, leads to bickering, is irrelevant, and is against the rules.  Please stop.

Quote:
second of all..crony capitalism has been far more guilty of giving away undeserved entitlements than "communism" or "socialism" (which the right inevitably defines as anything thats not crony capitalism).. as witness goldman & sachs..the health insurance cartel..etc..etc...


I swear to god that I hadn't read anna's post yet when I mentioned, in the above, that the examples of capitalist failings are inevitably the most highly regulated and restrained industries- specifically naming banking  and medicine.

Seriouslyl...

I'm very impressed with myself that I predicted this, and very disappointed that anyone is convinced by these examples that are so spectacularly bizarre.

Now, Anna, please explain how the massively regulated banking/investment and healthcare economies are examples of free markets failing?

Is there any industry you could pick that has more government intervention and regulatory actors with legislative authority?  To call this capitalist and an archetype of capitalist failings is absurd on its face. 

Please explain

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Re: Capitalism Kills [Re: johnm214]
    #13399326 -

Quote:
This.  I am consistently amazed that people who produce and want to keep the fruits of their labor are branded selfish and greedy while the loser assholes who don't produce but want to take from others are not.


i am as well, fuck the rich bastard exploiting my work.
Quote:
Perhaps the most fundamental problem is that socialism eliminates all competition and creates a monopoly of massive scale (with police and legislative power to boot) in order to prevent the amassing of wealth and undue influence in certain.  What the fuck?  It doesn't even make sense in with the simplest analysis.


human nature is competitive, socialism help keeping down that nature so that the product of work is distributed to the maximum efficiency for all there is no need to reinforce the competition nature of humans, it is already very strong.

i wouldn't say that competition is the same as greed, far too often, i feel bad that i am not giving money to an homeless guy, i am bypassing my nature for material interest.

Quote:
I swear to god that I hadn't read anna's post yet when I mentioned, in the above, that the examples of capitalist failings are inevitably the most highly regulated and restrained industries- specifically naming banking  and medicine.

Seriouslyl...

I'm very impressed with myself that I predicted this, and very disappointed that anyone is convinced by these examples that are so spectacularly bizarre.

Now, Anna, please explain how the massively regulated banking/investment and healthcare economies are examples of free markets failing?

Is there any industry you could pick that has more government intervention and regulatory actors with legislative authority?  To call this capitalist and an archetype of capitalist failings is absurd on its face.



the fact that it has become massively regulated and a healthcare economy is one of the proof that capitalism always or often end up in cronyism, just saying. i might be wrong. my main point to this is how do you enforce true capitalist competition in a capitalist system? profit always go down as competition comes into play, it requires imperialism or new technology to gain a higher profit rate. when there is no or close to no profit being made anymore, the system is fucked. there can never be a true capitalist system, because it doesn't work for the capitalists themselves and they rule society.

what happens with the tea party is that they complain all they want about regulations, all they actually do is complain what the government does to protect them, and not what fuck them over.

now i know that i defend an ideology which often lead to bureaucratic nightmares but i'm just giving you some of your medecine back. if you say communism just doesn't work. how can i not argue that true capitalism as you call it doesn't work?

too often it seems that people like you don't care about human suffering during economic crisis.

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