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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Capitalism=Theft
    #1911352 - 09/13/03 12:57 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

My philosophy professor was making a point recently that there is theft inherent in the capitalist system. As an example, he pointed out that when you buy a car, you're paying more than what it cost to make the car. The person selling the car always prices it so that he can take a little off the top for himself. Not that there's anything wrong with that--he's just trying to make a living--but the point is that in capitalism you have to rip people off a little bit in order to make a living. Any thoughts on this?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: silversoul7]
    #1911368 - 09/13/03 01:03 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

if car salesmen didnt make money selling cars, what incentive would they have to sell them.

if manufacturers didn't sell their goods at a profit, what incentive would they have to produce them?

profit is not theft if it is not excessive.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1911371 - 09/13/03 01:05 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

But the point is that you're paying more for the car than what it's worth.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: silversoul7]
    #1911382 - 09/13/03 01:12 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

worth is relative.

what is worth more hassle to you:

a. paying $20k for a new car
b. designing and building your own car from scratch

you do have a choice, but I'm guessing no matter how much you hate auto manufacturers you will choose a over b. Or you could just walk.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleMusicSucks
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1911396 - 09/13/03 01:18 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

The car is worth something, but the job that the person selling the car is doing is also worth something. I'm not really supporting any economic system, but, this is just true...


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: silversoul7]
    #1911400 - 09/13/03 01:19 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

You pay tax when you buy a car, but when you sell it, the other person is paying tax on the same car that was already taxed. Isn't that stealing?


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: silversoul7]
    #1911440 - 09/13/03 01:41 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Something is worth what you are are WILLING to pay for it. Value is subjective. If I have a $20 dollar bill and I feel that a case of beer is worth more than the $20 bill, I can freely exchange the bill for a case of beer. The liquor store owner feels that my $20 bill is of more value than the case of beer has in his possession. We both voluntarily decide to trade our possessions for something that has more value to each of us that the possessions we are giving up. There is no theft about that, it is a free exchange.

Your philosophy professor is an idiot.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: Autonomous]
    #1911476 - 09/13/03 01:56 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Your philosophy professor is an idiot.




well I wouldnt exactly go that far. Its always good to question your postulates and avoid making generalized assumptions and universal rules.

Is capitalism theft? not in general, but it can certainly lead to theft if left unchecked by constant scrutiny. Capitalism can devolve into communism so fast and so sneakily that the line between them gets blurry sometimes.

and its mccarthyist to call someone a commie or an idiot just for toying around with similar ideas. Asking questions and presenting ideas for discussion is not an endorsement of those principles. Its healthy and if anything should strengthen the validity of the correct position.

Shit, I came off like a total Randroid in the first part of this thread. It might be hard for some to believe that there are certain principles of capitalism that I think are entirely valid, but I make no claims as to carte blanche obedience to the totality of its doctrines and the consequences thereof.


--------------------
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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1911503 - 09/13/03 02:11 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
Quote:

Your philosophy professor is an idiot.




well I wouldnt exactly go that far. Its always good to question your postulates and avoid making generalized assumptions and universal rules.



Apparently the person is too stupid to know the meaning of the word theft. If this is not the case, then he has serious cognitive difficulties that are affecting his judgement.

Quote:

Is capitalism theft? not in general, but it can certainly lead to theft if left unchecked by constant scrutiny.



Either it is or it isn't. You might as well argue that marijuana use leads to rape.

Quote:

Capitalism can devolve into communism so fast and so sneakily that the line between them gets blurry sometimes.



I don't understand what your are saying with this statement.

Quote:

and its mccarthyist to call someone a commie or an idiot just for toying around with similar ideas.



Mccarthyist? How wonderfully inane. Just because I can perceive that someone doesn't know the meaning of terms, this is 'mccarthyist?'

Quote:

Asking questions and presenting ideas for discussion is not an endorsement of those principles.



Let's see, "there is theft inherent in the capitalist system" and "the point is that in capitalism you have to rip people off a little bit in order to make a living." Sounds like bullshit to me, and it's healthy that someone should point it out.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: Autonomous]
    #1911612 - 09/13/03 03:16 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Your philosophy professor is an idiot.



Definitely an idiot. If he was 12 years old or if he lived 100 years ago he might have entertained such thoughts without being a complete idiot, but a philosophy professor in this day an age? The idea that objects have absolute universal values was refuted many years ago.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1911920 - 09/13/03 05:33 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Actually, he didn't say that they had universal values. Sorry if I gave that impression.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: silversoul7]
    #1911979 - 09/13/03 06:22 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Charity = Theft also using that logic.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: Autonomous]
    #1911993 - 09/13/03 06:35 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Your philosophy professor is an idiot.




Exactly.

What's sad is this appears to be an all to common example of the morons teaching kids today.

You should try and get your tuition money back.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1912013 - 09/13/03 07:18 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

That's why I've advoided school like the plague. This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand,but I remember you basically calling me an idiot for dropping out of school. Isn't that kind of a contradiction?


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: monoamine]
    #1912014 - 09/13/03 07:21 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

No, I said you dropped out too soon.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1912016 - 09/13/03 07:23 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

OK,just wondering. I don't feel like getting in another flame fest.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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InvisibleStarter
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: monoamine]
    #1912066 - 09/13/03 09:12 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Get that philosophy professor out into the blue collar working class to do a months worth of proletariat labor, such as in construction or as a rural hand. He'll soon understand why a bloke earns what he does in the trade and how that dollar earned is recycled back into the system at the common impact level -- the very basics of capitalism.

All up, arts academics often have no grasp of what the working class means, despite being the people they profess to speak for. How can they? They come from an indulged position of university tenure, where they sprout BS about how the apple in space spins. Give me a real person, one of guts & toil reality. Not some soft hands books postulator.


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Convert Metric and Imperial.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: monoamine]
    #1912088 - 09/13/03 09:43 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

monoamine said:
OK,just wondering. I don't feel like getting in another flame fest.



Didn't realize we had been.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinemonoamine
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Registered: 09/07/02
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1912191 - 09/13/03 11:08 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

The whole school testing thing?


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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Offlinelysergic
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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: monoamine]
    #1912198 - 09/13/03 11:14 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

theft
\Theft\, n. [OE. thefte, AS. [thorn]i['e]f[eth]e, [thorn][=y]f[eth]e, [thorn]e['o]f[eth]e. See Thief.] 1. (Law) The act of stealing; specifically, the felonious taking and removing of personal property, with an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the same; larceny.
Note: To constitute theft there must be a taking without the owner's consent, and it must be unlawful or felonious; every part of the property stolen must be removed, however slightly, from its former position; and it must be, at least momentarily, in the complete possession of the thief.

"intent to deprive rightful owner of same" "without owners concent" "unlawful or felonius" Your philosphy professor sounds like a complete idiot. "Ripping people off"? Thats how you see it? Should the car manufacture spend their money to purchase the raw materials, pay people to develop the vehicles, and then not do anything to get a profit? If you know, as you do in America, that through buying something, you are paying the "overhead" on it, plus some profit, then it's not "stealing". If noone can sell anything without clearing their overhead and making a profit, none of the raw materials would be converted. Do you think that the steel makers would lose money extracting and producing steel? Don't be such a fool.


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In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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