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OfflineMisterKite
Stranger
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Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 655
Loc: Montreal, QC
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Who Really Feels Capitalism Works?
    #3473523 - 12/10/04 12:03 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

I'm not going to make an argument against capitalism unprovoked. I just want to see what the argument is for all the ones who aren't multi-illionaires. Keep an open mind and I will too.


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"But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into the world to enjoy."


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: MisterKite]
    #3473531 - 12/10/04 12:05 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

No system is perfect, but capitalism sucks the least.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: MisterKite]
    #3473589 - 12/10/04 12:17 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

I don't really feel capitalism works, because all systems are doomed to fail, but I don't see a superior realistic alternative to capitalism


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Anonymous

Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: MisterKite]
    #3473630 - 12/10/04 12:24 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

capitalism is freedom.


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: MisterKite]
    #3473638 - 12/10/04 12:25 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

I think it is important that we come to an understanding about definitions. What many people from the left call "capitalism" is in fact a system that relies on government favors to certain business interests and legal impediments to new competitors or competitors from outside a nation's boundaries. Even communism uses monolithic government controlled capitalism, if we define capitalism as an economic process which relies on the accumulation of capital and it's investment in some means of increasing production or easing labor. I have never met a person, no matter how "socialistic," who did not accumulate some capital for one purpose or another. So capitalism does work.

So, my point is that capitalism (as I understand it) is neither good nor bad, what people use it for and how they use it determines it's moral value. A great many of the ills blamed on capitalism are the result of government favoritism to certain interests. This to me is not an indictment of capitalism but of the potential for government corruption by unscrupulous business interests.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: MisterKite]
    #3473989 - 12/10/04 01:27 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

...you'll also need a definition of "works" - what end to do you believe an economic system should achieve?


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Anonymous

Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: Vvellum]
    #3474076 - 12/10/04 01:42 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

capitalism is not a system.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: MisterKite]
    #3474107 - 12/10/04 01:49 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

capitalism built us to the great nation that we are. but it is still fucked up. when socialism is dead...... i hope the u.s. can use the CAPITAL that we have built up to come up with a new system that is better. something (local) for example: force me to know who my next-door neighbor is.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 5 days
Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: ]
    #3474597 - 12/10/04 03:51 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

capitalism is freedom.




Hahahahahahahahaa!! Thats a good one... You dogma bunnies really crack me up!

As far as Im concerned theories such as communism, capitalism, socialism etc are just tools that can be applied to the organisation of collective groups of people. All have their plus points and their drawbacks but I think all can be successful if they are applied by people who express themselves from their heart and are able to see the importance of helping others, people who basically understand the interconnectedness of the world. In other words these theories are tools and like all tools their merit is mainly related to how they are used and not the tools in themselves.


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Always Smi2le


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Anonymous

Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: GazzBut]
    #3475230 - 12/10/04 10:21 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

thought someone here would like that.

what is false about it?


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 5 days
Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: ]
    #3475312 - 12/10/04 11:03 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

what is true about it?


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Always Smi2le


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: MisterKite]
    #3475321 - 12/10/04 11:07 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

In a grand sense, I think capitalism works really well.

I just don't think it's an answer to 100% of the problems in soceity.
Maybe 80%.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: GazzBut]
    #3475330 - 12/10/04 11:10 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

that it (atleast this nice setup we live in) basically forces millions into poverty by default and widely promotes corruption, greed, and the need for tons of police in black ski masks to keep those who may oppose in line?


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OfflineMikeOLogical
Doctor ofShroomology
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Registered: 01/31/04
Posts: 4,130
Loc: florida
Last seen: 6 months, 17 days
Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3475384 - 12/10/04 11:37 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

I am a great believer in capitalism.

In a capitalist society, a person has a choice of whether to be rich or poor. In other types of society, a person's class or family wealth or circumstances of birth determine the life one is determined to lead.


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We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
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Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,233
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 15 days, 6 hours
Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #3475394 - 12/10/04 11:43 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

The basic contradiction within capitalism is that it produces more goods than can be sold at a profit. This is the famous crisis of overproduction....basically...supply outstrips demand.
Of course this is a very narrow definition of the word "demand".
There still exists a huge demand for houses for the homeless, or food for the hungry, or medicine for the sick...but for a capitalist, demand only means anything if it is backed up with hard cash. Capitalism gets itself in this mess because it produces for profit and not for need.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: Rono]
    #3475418 - 12/10/04 12:01 PM (12 years, 3 days ago)

> Capitalism gets itself in this mess because it produces for profit and not for need.

Is this not a flaw of society as a whole rather than capitalism itself. If society were not corruptable by greed, then capitalism would produce for need and not for profit.

I feel a bigger flaw with capitalism is the trend towards short term payoffs at the cost of long term stability. Who cares what happens five years from now as long as I show a profit today. Again, this is directly related to greed.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Anonymous

Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: GazzBut]
    #3475432 - 12/10/04 12:05 PM (12 years, 3 days ago)

what is true about it?

capitalism is the extension of freedom into affairs of production and exchange. if we are only free so far as we are not acting productively, making exchanges, or owning property, we are hardly free at all.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 5 days
Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3475438 - 12/10/04 12:13 PM (12 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

and widely promotes corruption, greed




Thats my point...Im not sure if capitalism itself promotes corruption and greed as corruption and greed are the same reasons communism failed. Thats my whole point, its how the system is applied that is more important, not the system itself.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 30 days, 5 hours
Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: GazzBut]
    #3475508 - 12/10/04 12:33 PM (12 years, 3 days ago)

> its how the system is applied that is more important, not the system itself.

Exactly!


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Who Really Feels Capitalism Works? [Re: Seuss]
    #3475552 - 12/10/04 12:45 PM (12 years, 3 days ago)

In a capitalist society a person can sell an item for $50 that a person could easily make on their own for $10.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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