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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: DieCommie]
    #9880627 -

Ah, ok, that makes sense to me then.  I see now how you see possiblities (i think). 

Question though, how can we know if the wave goes through both slits when we don't observe it if we don't observe it?

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: xFrockx]
    #9880663 -

In short, because it forms an interference pattern.  I dont think I can explain it quickly and easily without some paper and eye contact; though the concept is quite simple and mind blowing.  It affected me to the point of making a career out of it.

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: DieCommie]
    #9880734 -

I'm pretty sure I've seen what you're talking about, does it look like this (pretend the dots are waves)?
Code:
 ......... ..... .........
......... ... .........
......... . .........
......... .........
....... .......
..... .....
... ...
________ _________ ___________




Does the interference pattern of the unobserved slit experiment also change once we've observed it?  I'm just not quite clear on how we can know it is what it appears to be if we also accept that observations affect reality so intimately.

Edited by xFrockx (02/27/09 09:18 PM)

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: xFrockx]
    #9883266 -

Pretty cool video, funny how circular human discovery has been, these sorts of concepts were discussed by pre-socratic thinkers and yet today it seems we cant go much further as humans. Good stuff, I wonder if some of those scientists would smoke DMT, haha :psychsplit:


--------------------
Jesus loves you.

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Re: whats up, doc? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #12995719 -

is it possible that the universe IS the observer?
is it possible that all matter is conscious, everything connected
leaving one true perception that springs from the entirety of everything




do you ever get the feeling that you are being watched?


--------------------
my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson

Edited by Lallafa (08/24/10 04:27 PM)

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Re: whats up, doc? [Re: Lallafa]
    #13029940 -

Young´s double slit experiment for philosophers with a slight interest but a lack of background in the implications of quantum physics...

both holes are pierced. this is labeled as ¨the probability of either hole being pierced,¨ but both holes are effectively being pierced- the wave is not some smear of chance while it´s cruising through the cosmos (not in wave-mode, so to speak); let me explain: What is light? light is one of the many variations of electromagnetic radiation, by variation i mean the same exact kind of wave, but shorter faster (shorter wavelength, higher frequency) or longer slower. why? when one is of a higher value, the other is of a lower value proportionally. light has a determined frequency and longitud for each color that we percieve. some animals such as certain snakes can even see infrared light, invisible to us, because their eyeball anatomy filters out a different wavelengths than us, letting the IR wavelength in, voila visible light in the IR ¨color.¨ just remember that light is a piece of the spectrum we can see, nothing more, not ¨special¨ outside of the way it interacts with humans or an animal or whatever. Now, if light is electromagnetic radiation, what is electromagnetic radiation? radiation is a vibrating alteration that transmits or recieves energy through a medium of empty space. electromagnetic radiation is the transmition of electromagnetic waves through space. starting to make sense? probably not. take ultraviolet light; it´s a tidbit higher up on the longitud scale and is the same exact kind of wave, but due to the different (longer)longitud/(slower)frequency and our biological susceptibility to it, we percieve it as heat. same wave, different freq/long, different effect on us. all this being said, we can simplify a little: our ¨wave¨ is an electromagnetic wave-a wave that propogates through space with x longitud and y frequency-that transfers energy from a to b. simple shit. NOW, what the hell!? there´s this wall with slits in the way, what happens next? as luck would have it, the wave goes through the slits just fine: the wave nature of light causes the light waves passing through both slits to interfere, creating an interference pattern of bright and dark bands on the screen. this is the diagrom posted by the above user. we
we choose an experiment!
as i said, the wave nature of light causes the light waves passing through both slits to interfere, creating an interference pattern of bright and dark bands on the screen. at the screen, the light is always found to be absorbed as though it were made of discrete particles, called photons.
Gonna go ahead and let wikipedia simplify this for you all:
If the light travels from the source to the screen as particles, then on the basis of a classical reasoning, the number that strike any particular point on the screen is expected to be equal to the sum of those that go through the left slit and those that go through the right slit. In other words, according to classical particle physics:
the brightness at any point should be the sum of the brightness when the right slit is blocked and the brightness when the left slit is blocked.
HOWEVER, it is found that unblocking both slits makes some points on the screen brighter, and other points darker. This can only be explained by the alternately additive and subtractive interference of waves, not the exclusively additive nature of particles, so we know that light must have some particle-wave duality (¨Why so, doc?¨ We´re getting there).
Any modification of the apparatus that can determine which slit a photon passes through destroys the interference pattern (Houston, we have a wave-particle duality), illustrating the complementarity principle; that the light can demonstrate both particle and wave characteristics, but not both at the same time.

The double slit experiment can also be performed (using different apparatus) with particles of matter such as electrons with the same results, demonstrating that they also show particle-wave duality.

---This is why the photon isn´t some alien particle(/wave), this is the nature of matter itself. Some of you are still scratching your heads. Some more wiki:

The most baffling part of this experiment comes when only one photon at a time is fired at the barrier with both slits open. The pattern of interference remains the same, as can be seen if many photons are emitted one at a time and recorded on the same sheet of photographic film. The clear implication is that something with a wavelike nature passes simultaneously through both slits and interferes with itself — even though there is only one photon present. (The experiment works with electrons, atoms, and even some molecules too.)

Richard Feynman was fond of saying that all of quantum mechanics can be gleaned from carefully thinking through the implications of this single experiment

...

And wiki´s Philosophical Implications:
The double-slit experiment has been of great interest to philosophers, because the quantum mechanical behavior that it reveals has forced them to reevaluate their ideas about classical concepts such as "particles", "waves", "location", and "movement from one place to another".

In contrast to the way of conceptualizing the macroscopic world of everyday experience, attempting to describe the motion of a single photon is problematic. As Philipp Frank observes, investigating the motion of single particles through a single slit can obtain a description of the pattern of photon strikes on a target screen. However, "the pattern of fringes for two slits is not the superposition of the two patterns for single slits. Hence, there is no law of motion that would determine the trajectory of a single photon and allow us to derive the observed facts that occur when photons pass two slits." Experience in the micro world of sub-atomic particles forces us to reconceptualize some of our most commonplace ideas.



aaand that closes in on (a few of) the revolutionary aspects of quantum physics, and gives this thread some less than pseudo-scientific content to take into account.

hope this helps, sorry about the long post

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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