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OfflineNoteworthy
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The One (or Two) Child Policy
    #11389203 - 11/05/09 07:28 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Do you think it is everyone's 'right' to have as many children as they want?

Do you think that it is more moral to abort unwanted children or is it more moral to let everything live and compete and fight in their own filth?

The one-child policy had a big issue in China - parents would kill their daughters so that they could have sons.

This is an issue in many cultures, whereby boys are much more desired.

In a world where we do not have our natural population control, are traditional values placed on life valid anymore?

Who is more important? A living person or a foetus? a healthy young adult or a decrepit old person? Is it the case that this question cannot be asked? Or is it merely the case that no one is willing to give their answer?

When I hear people ask 'how can you take that poor child's life? They have a chance at life and you are taking it away!' it kind of makes me sick. It is like they think life is this special thing that absolutely anything and anyone ought to experience, but they are not taking into consideration the fact that life is a struggle and can actually be horrible for people who are born into communities that do not have the food, space, or love for them.

Basically: is there a real moral issue here? Or is it just a matter of religious groups needing to rile their people by making out like the secular world is fucked up? Does a foetus have any rights at all? Should a foetus have any rights?

Is it wrong to offer women money for their stem-cells?


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OfflineLife Upon Death
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11389217 - 11/05/09 07:39 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I'm undecided on abortion to be perfectly honest

on the one hand it is the killing of life but on the other its also the sparing of pain as you said

and what about rape victims? granted a woman who is raped should go get a morning after pill but this is not always possible due to psychological trauma

are you gonna tell the chick who was just brutally raped that she has to conceive the child of the fuck who did this to her?


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InvisibleRationalEgo
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Registered: 06/15/09
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11389221 - 11/05/09 07:43 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
Do you think it is everyone's 'right' to have as many children as they want?






Yes

Quote:



Do you think that it is more moral to abort unwanted children or is it more moral to let everything live and compete and fight in their own filth?






Depends entirely on the circumstances.

Quote:



In a world where we do not have our natural population control, are traditional values placed on life valid anymore?






Depends what you mean by 'traditional values. Sexism is not rational. Pro-life stances are not valuable to human freedom or personal choice.

Quote:



Who is more important? A living person or a foetus? a healthy young adult or a decrepit old person? Is it the case that this question cannot be asked? Or is it merely the case that no one is willing to give their answer?






Important to whom? A living person has rights, a 'potential' human does not. A healthy adult and a decrepit adult both have rights.

Quote:



When I hear people ask 'how can you take that poor child's life? They have a chance at life and you are taking it away!' it kind of makes me sick. It is like they think life is this special thing that absolutely anything and anyone ought to experience, but they are not taking into consideration the fact that life is a struggle and can actually be horrible for people who are born into communities that do not have the food, space, or love for them.






It makes me sick to, but for a different reason. The reason is the evasion of the rights of the mother to choose what to do with her body, and the notion that a potential human has rights above the rights of a living human being.

Quote:



Basically: is there a real moral issue here? Or is it just a matter of religious groups needing to rile their people by making out like the secular world is fucked up? Does a foetus have any rights at all? Should a foetus have any rights?






It is certainly a moral issue.

Quote:



Is it wrong to offer women money for their stem-cells?




No. On another point, I think it is totally reasonable and moral for you to sell me one of your kidneys if you wanted. :grin:


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InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11389323 - 11/05/09 08:36 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

- Yes

- ..have aborts or fight in filth :thumbup:

- Yes

- Has always been a stupid question .. life = life

- Just a religious agenda.. which carries no weight with me

- fetus rights? do what you gotta do and live with it.. I have 4 kids, would never think of it, but do not care really when someone else does..

- No


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11389496 - 11/05/09 10:01 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
Do you think it is everyone's 'right' to have as many children as they want?

Do you think that it is more moral to abort unwanted children or is it more moral to let everything live and compete and fight in their own filth?

The one-child policy had a big issue in China - parents would kill their daughters so that they could have sons.

This is an issue in many cultures, whereby boys are much more desired.

In a world where we do not have our natural population control, are traditional values placed on life valid anymore?

Who is more important? A living person or a foetus? a healthy young adult or a decrepit old person? Is it the case that this question cannot be asked? Or is it merely the case that no one is willing to give their answer?

When I hear people ask 'how can you take that poor child's life? They have a chance at life and you are taking it away!' it kind of makes me sick. It is like they think life is this special thing that absolutely anything and anyone ought to experience, but they are not taking into consideration the fact that life is a struggle and can actually be horrible for people who are born into communities that do not have the food, space, or love for them.

Basically: is there a real moral issue here? Or is it just a matter of religious groups needing to rile their people by making out like the secular world is fucked up? Does a foetus have any rights at all? Should a foetus have any rights?

Is it wrong to offer women money for their stem-cells?





Well this is kind of a silly question for me. Rights? We only have the rights given to us by our culture. So we don't have rights beyond taking matters into your own hands and suffering the consequences.

I'm in favor of a moratorium on childbirth for the next thousand years or so.:laugh:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: Icelander]
    #11389523 - 11/05/09 10:11 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Yes I realise this but you know, it is a standard function of humans to have a feeling as to what -should- be right.

I mean, that is what people generally talk about when they talk about the rights of something. They are talking about what they think ought to be right. But in reality, there are no rights, no property, no rules, of course. Only what people end up enforcing.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11389526 - 11/05/09 10:12 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Yes of course people do talk. But do they make any sense when they do that?:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11389953 - 11/05/09 12:18 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

- Ofcourse it is, however life on earth for us humans will eventually change because of overpopulation... but that doesn't change our rights to have children, just the implications of having children will change.
- To let nature take its course of action is more moral than to interfere. However, neither are witnessing of much morality as such.
- Values remain valid until they can no longer be respected due to the consequences of following them.
- All life is equally important.
- A foetus is the beginning of a human life, therefore it should live. If it is born in the worst of circumstances then it is not the foetus to blame, but us who created these circumstances. The fault is in not making every effort to correct the living situation of the foetus.
- Money for stem-cells is neither wrong nor right. But the issue of stem-cells in itself is a far more important one.


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OfflineC.M. Mann
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11389997 - 11/05/09 12:26 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Fetus


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InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11390085 - 11/05/09 12:45 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ahimsa said:
- A foetus is the beginning of a human life, therefore it should live. If it is born in the worst of circumstances then it is not the foetus to blame, but us who created these circumstances. The fault is in not making every effort to correct the living situation of the foetus.






So.. if you see it coming.. regardless of placing blame, the situation remains the same.. do it anyway???


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #11390094 - 11/05/09 12:45 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Thank you.


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
    #11390136 - 11/05/09 12:52 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Abortion would be just as immoral then bringing a child into a short and miserable life.
However, to prevent this to be the approval for abortion, the emphasis should be on making every effort to provide for the child all the chances for a meaningful life.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11390154 - 11/05/09 12:56 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Maybe we should consider how the world actually works rather then how it "should" work. Then maybe something might be accomplished.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: Icelander]
    #11390203 - 11/05/09 01:04 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Ok then. Both abortion and the miserable life of the child to be are equally immoral.
It just goes to show the way human life is evolving...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11390208 - 11/05/09 01:05 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Abortion may be "immoral" but it's not unethical for me.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: Icelander]
    #11390292 - 11/05/09 01:19 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Abortion may be "immoral" but it's not unethical for me.



I don't think i understand.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11390370 - 11/05/09 01:32 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Morality is what the culture deems wrong.

Ethics are what I believe is wrong.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: Icelander]
    #11390544 - 11/05/09 02:11 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

if you think that is unethical look at chickens thousands get their kids kidnapped and aborted unvoluntarily everyday


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: giza]
    #11390894 - 11/05/09 03:26 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I think people should realize how purely animalistic they are being when they just make tons of babies, at this point its really doing nobody good except your own selfish desires, and hell these days the world is only getting more crowded.,, so in some ways its a slow process of decline via our overflow as a species.

Governemnt is gonna have a hard time enforcing reproduction laws (ie china) and softer appeals will make no significant impact, what will be necessary is a massive die off or submission to the emergance of a new era of "Too Many Humans" and I think that entails a less diverse and boring terrestial experience not to mention all sorts of problems over crowding will eventually cause with more and more significance down the line.


Look to the future! Its only getting grimmer :thumbup: :sunny:

:lol:

Adopt a child, its the more moral thing to do! Or yeah just have 1 maybe 2 babies...


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Jesus loves you.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The One (or Two) Child Policy [Re: andrewss]
    #11391987 - 11/05/09 06:10 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

My BBQ spit only has room for two small children...


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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