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Offlinecb9fl
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Registered: 06/12/03
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Raising children
    #3758721 - 02/09/05 11:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I've been thinking about my belief system in relation to political, moral and religious ideas. I believe what I believe because I feel it is correct. If new evidence or experience comes to light I'm willing to change my beliefs.

This question is mostly for the parents on the Shroomery but really for anyone who wants to respond.

How do you teach your children your belief system? Do you teach them that your beliefs are correct or do you teach them that you believe your beliefs to be correct?

How do you foster an environment which allows them to grow and decide for themselves what to believe?


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Raising children [Re: cb9fl]
    #3758832 - 02/09/05 11:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I say first teach them what society considers right and wrong, and what can happen if you go against society's morals. Then teach them what you believe and why you believe it, but let them know it's ok to think differently.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Raising children [Re: Silversoul]
    #3758846 - 02/09/05 11:25 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I don't say.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
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Re: Raising children [Re: Silversoul]
    #3758873 - 02/09/05 11:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Don't know if this matters or not but I don't have children and don't plan on raising children. I'm just tying to get a feel for how other people raise their children.

So at what age would you start teaching a child he/she can choose for him/herself what he/she wants. For example say you're a religious person. Would you start by instilling your religious values and beliefs in your child? Would you make them come to church/synagouge/... with you?

At what age would you begin to teach your child that what he has learned is what you believe to be true and not necessarily correct? When would you allow them to decide not to go with you to your place of worship?


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleCosm
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Re: Raising children [Re: cb9fl]
    #3760343 - 02/10/05 05:16 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"I say first teach them what society considers right and wrong, and what can happen if you go against society's morals. Then teach them what you believe and why you believe it, but let them know it's ok to think differently." ---Paradigm


Edited by Cosm (02/10/05 05:17 AM)


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Offlinerepemon
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Re: Raising children [Re: Cosm]
    #3760363 - 02/10/05 05:26 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Ill simply teach them when they ask questions based on what I believe, and then, only secondly, ill teach them what the society says, and why I consider the societys belief to be not-so-proper if it aint.


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- When the time stops, evil ones will be pointed out for all to see.


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Raising children [Re: cb9fl]
    #3760692 - 02/10/05 08:56 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

What Sclorch said. I would try and teach them to not take everything at face value, even from authority figures. I remember being a child and thinking that whatever the teacher/my parents said was gospel.

My dad once said to me, "you can believe in god if you want, make your own decisions, but I personally don't". Since I was very young at the time (5 or 6?) I held him in such high esteem that I automatically adopted his beliefs, even though he had told me to think for myself.

I would try and give them a framework for creating justified beliefs. I would, of course, tell them my beliefs if they asked.

The main problem with this would be getting rid of any social stigma they may pick up following these guidelines...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Raising children [Re: deafpanda]
    #3760760 - 02/10/05 09:41 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Shroomerites are not really that different from society-at-large, egotistical posturing aside. Parents will (almost) ALWAYS attempt to make little clones of themselves.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Raising children [Re: Swami]
    #3763963 - 02/10/05 09:35 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

yeah, everyone acts the way they think is best to act..right? if so, then of COURSE they want their kids to be like them


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Raising children [Re: Swami]
    #3764129 - 02/10/05 10:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Parents will (almost) ALWAYS attempt to make little clones of themselves.




Do parents make their kids clones of themselves, or do the kids clone themselves after there parents...?
(Excluding the whole gene factor....)

Isn't true growth (of a child) expression and individualism thru impression and constant imitation....?

Eeeehhhh....?


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Raising children [Re: cb9fl]
    #3764205 - 02/10/05 11:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I have had 5 children. They're a pain in the ass. I recommend against having them at all.

But what I did with mine, and still do, is just have discussions. Always look for an opportunity to have a discussion about your beliefs based on whatever events they are currently experiencing.

But you can't just tell them what you believe. Children watch EVERYTHING. You have to live your beliefs, or they will figure out that you are a hypocrite.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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Re: Raising children [Re: Frog]
    #3764317 - 02/10/05 11:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Well like I said there is no way I'll have children. I don't feel I would make an excellent parent and that's the only type of parent I feel should exists.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Raising children [Re: Frog]
    #3764862 - 02/11/05 02:16 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

But what I did with mine, and still do, is just have discussions.

you didn't just have discussions, right? you did all sorts of other things to and with your kids.

Children watch EVERYTHING. You have to live your beliefs, or they will figure out that you are a hypocrite.

that's what I mean. before children are verbal, they are still learning like sponges. you as a parent are not some completely neutral, unpolitical, unopinionated bland person---how you respond to your child each time is informed by your beliefs and opinions, not just regarding parenting but regarding everything.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Raising children [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3765749 - 02/11/05 09:34 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

There is no choice, but to teach them right from wrong as best you can. If you have moral shortcomings that you are aware of, then you best make your children aware of them too so that they can avoid these shortcomings. I do not want clones of myself. I want them to be guided around the pitfalls that limited my development as a young person. On 9/11, being pissed off, I expressed some racial slurs to vent my anger at the situation only to be promptly corrected by a 13 year old daughter. I knew then that I had my children on the right path. To be able to see their parents failings and direct themselves accordingly is the ultimate ideal I have for my children. They are certainly not clones of me. They are the people that I could never aspire to emulate as a young person myself due to the limitations that I had, but could never see. You just try to do your very best at all times with raising them. I want my offspring to be independant, strong minded, people with a solid sense of responsibility.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineCyber
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Re: Raising children [Re: Frog]
    #3765846 - 02/11/05 10:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
I have had 5 children.  They're a pain in the ass.  I recommend against having them at all.

But what I did with mine, and still do, is just have discussions.  Always look for an opportunity to have a discussion about your beliefs based on whatever events they are currently experiencing. 

But you can't just tell them what you believe.  Children watch EVERYTHING.  You have to live your beliefs, or they will figure out that you are a hypocrite.




I have to agree with Frog, Open lines of communication go further than you can ever imagine!

I have taught my kid to ask questions. Question anyhting and everything. Ask why, when, what, etc. Never take anything at face value and to always realize that anything that anyone tells you will be from there prospective and may or may not be the truth.

TV is a great opportunity to bring up subjects and discuss them with your kids. I love TLC, A&E, The History channel, and the Discovery channel. They have great shows on great topics. After the show I spend time talking to my kid about what the show told us and how it may or may not be right.

Recently the history channel had a show called "Hooked: Illegal Drugs and How They Got That Way" They brought up some get information! Like the fact that the DEA stopped all hearings on MDMA and made it illegal against the wishes of the doctors, how LSD was banned primarily because it was used by the counter culture, how opium and pot were used for thousands of years and only recently became illegal, etc. After the show we spent 3 hours discussing drugs, drug myths, drug truths, and why they were illegal. (Note: My kid is 11 years old)

As to religious beliefs, my kid has opportunities most do not. In our family we have Catholics, Baptists, Buddhists, Jewish, Pagans, Wiccan and Kemetic believers. Christmas and Thanksgiving are always fun and full of religious discussion :wink:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Raising children [Re: Cyber]
    #3765951 - 02/11/05 11:07 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"After the show we spent 3 hours discussing drugs, drug myths, drug truths, and why they were illegal. (Note: My kid is 11 years old)"

Preprogramming children to be biased towards using drugs could lead them to a bad place. I prefer for mine to understand that all substances have good and bad uses, and that pissing your life away stoned is no way to go. Just teach them good judgement and let them reach their own conclusions.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Raising children [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3769013 - 02/12/05 12:06 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Hue, I disagree with you. I cannot tell my children that some drugs are good, and some are bad. But I am also not going to say "they're all bad!".

What I say is, I did drugs when I was younger and they interfered with my goals in life. I also tell them that I am representing people who have been charged with either possession, use, under the influence, or sales, and that those criminal charges have messed up their lives.

So far, my two oldest children, who are now 27 and 22, have not used drugs. Only one of my kids smokes.

If after being raised by me and being told that drugs wouldn't be good for them, regardless of what drug it is, they decide to use drugs, I'm not going to condemn them. I just prefer they not use drugs while they are growing up.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Raising children [Re: Frog]
    #3769181 - 02/12/05 12:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Did you not see "Preprogramming children to be biased towards using drugs could lead them to a bad place."??? Of course, I have not told them that drugs are good!!! I tell my kids the truth. The truth is that any substance (all drugs and medicines) can cause great good or great harm, and that children are not endowed with the judgement to make such decisions. I have 3 teenagers...2 nearly ready for college...who have never used drugs. You must read my post much more carefully. I would NEVER advocate such a gross lack of responsibility. "biased toward using" means taught that it was good..."biased against" means taught that they are not good for them. I will say teaching your children proper moral character with the proper information will usually lead towards them making proper decisions. You make it sound like I am my kids dealer!!! Jesus!!!
I was criticising this:

"Recently the history channel had a show called "Hooked: Illegal Drugs and How They Got That Way" They brought up some get information! Like the fact that the DEA stopped all hearings on MDMA and made it illegal against the wishes of the doctors, how LSD was banned primarily because it was used by the counter culture, how opium and pot were used for thousands of years and only recently became illegal, etc."

Read my stuff a bit more carefully. You might have called me a "rat" in my rating, but I am NOT a moral degenerate.


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (02/12/05 01:11 AM)


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Raising children [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3769246 - 02/12/05 01:13 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry, Hue.  I see where I made a mistake in my response to your previous post.  I think.  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Raising children [Re: Frog]
    #3769294 - 02/12/05 01:20 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks. I will now say that the responsible use of entheogens by adults can often be a positive experience...drug use by developing bodies and minds is never good.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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