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The mystical nature of the mystical
    #10574450 -

I wonder, if more people understood the definition of mystic, as the adjective that it is, would they be so quick to define all the truths of it? This question is not directed at any specific subset of humanity.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

Edited by Rahz (06/26/09 02:24 AM)

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: Rahz]
    #10574496 -

"What is mysticism? Mysticism is the acceptance of allegations without evidence or proof, either apart from or against the evidence of one’s senses and one’s reason. Mysticism is the claim to some non-sensory, non-rational, non-definable, non-identifiable means of knowledge, such as “instinct,” “intuition,” “revelation,” or any form of “just knowing.” - Ayn Rand

I explicitly reject mysticism in favour of reason. I hope more people will do such. This world would be a better place to live in.

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: RationalEgo]
    #10574516 -

The question is, what is mystic?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: Rahz]
    #10574531 -

Some people play at guessing but nobody can know because it does not exist.

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: RationalEgo]
    #10574553 -

You cannot define the word mystic?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: Rahz]
    #10574567 -

What is the context?

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: RationalEgo]
    #10574595 -

It is an adjective.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: Rahz]
    #10574607 -

Are you going to apply it to persons or things or are you leaving it as a meaningless floating abstraction? If it is the latter then it is meaningless, if the former it may have some meaning.

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: Rahz]
    #10574619 -

Rahz said:
It is an adjective.


Meaning different, distinct things. Hard to have a discussion regarding people understanding what a word means if even you won't clarify which definition of the word you are talking about. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: RationalEgo]
    #10574620 -

Once the word is defined, then we can apply it to persons and things, and see how they relate.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: fireworks_god]
    #10574625 -

I've noticed how people in this forum LOVE meaningless floating abstractions.

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: Rahz]
    #10574634 -

Rahz said:
Once the word is defined, then we can apply it to persons and things, and see how they relate.


Doesn't work like that, you need to refer to concretes in order to provide the definitions for an abstraction.

Come on man, this is basic reasoning 101.

Edited by RationalEgo (06/26/09 02:57 AM)

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: fireworks_god]
    #10574663 -

fireworks_god said:
Rahz said:
It is an adjective.


Meaning different, distinct things. Hard to have a discussion regarding people understanding what a word means if even you won't clarify which definition of the word you are talking about. :wink:


The basic definition of mystic, as an adjective. I'm not trying to be mystic about it.:tongue:

Mystic: That which is not understood. Mysterious. The relation to mystic as a descriptor for a specific group of people is really leading into noun territory.

My main point being, everyone has an experience of the mystic side of life, and I would venture to guess that we all share some things in common in this regard. What the ultimate nature of reality is, would be the most mystic of questions. People find it so easy to create a belief set in one form or another to fill in the blanks, but unless something is truly known, it is still mystic, no matter the belief. In this light, a sense of wonder seems reasonable, but to venerate the mystic, and give it form, seems unreasonable.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: RationalEgo]
    #10574681 -

RationalEgo said:
I've noticed how people in this forum LOVE meaningless floating abstractions.


I think you're misunderstanding the gist of my argument. Forgive me for being to vague. I wasn't trying to me mystic about it.:tongue:

I like to see if there is agreement on basic definitions, and see what further ground may be held in common. I liked your initial response, though I'm not overly fond of quote replies. Our views on the errors of usage are similar, I think.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: Rahz]
    #10575247 -

"Mysticism is the awakening to and cultivation of transcendental consciousness. It is unitive awareness. All forms of mystical wisdom are unitive, that is, non-dual. They contribute to a deeper appreciation of the mystery of being. This is a significant point of convergence among the religions themselves. To say that mystical consciousness is unitive, non-dual, or integrative, is simply to suggest that it points to an unusual state of awareness in which the person is united with God, Ultimate Reality, or for the Buddhists, the person achieves absolute realization, an inner process of awakening to non-dual consciousness in which a changeless wisdom is activated.

In mystical consciousness, the transcendent is touched, or is reached, and it touches, embraces us. Mystical consciousness means integration with it and to know it directly with certainty, although it defies description. It can be experienced but not comprehended with any clarity, indeed not comprehended at all! We know but we do not fully grasp the Divine mystery. Encountering the transcendent reality confers on us a degree of knowledge, the knowledge that it is, that it exists, and a kind of wisdom that has a practical utility for our spiritual life. Mystical experience, however, is fleeting, and yet its fruits are lasting, often permanent. Some of the effects include: wisdom, deep peace or tranquillity, joy, compassion, patience, gentleness, selflessness and simplicity." - A. Article

Potent Quotes:

I love mysticism - it's such fun. - Jerry Hall

Liking money like I like it, is nothing less than mysticism. Money is a glory. - Salvador Dali

Mysticism and exaggeration go together. A mystic must not fear ridicule if he is to push all the way to the limits of humility or the limits of delight. - Milan Kundera

Religion is to mysticism what popularization is to science. - Henri Bergson

The new meaning of soul is creativity and mysticism. These will become the foundation of the new psychological type and with him or her will come the new civilization. - Otto Rank

There is a kind of mysticism to writing. - Irvine Welsh

What does mysticism really mean? It means the way to attain knowledge. It's close to philosophy, except in philosophy you go horizontally while in mysticism you go vertically. - Elie Wiesel

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: Middleman]
    #10575524 -

:thumbup:

Now that we are having some consensus on the proper usage of the word, what of the question in the OP?

Does the word get abused? And by whom?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: Rahz]
    #10575889 -

Some would argue that how much mysticism has importance for you really depends on how imaginative you are.

I think it's certainly possible, but it doesn't take anything away from it.


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: RationalEgo]
    #10575935 -

RationalEgo said:
"What is mysticism? Mysticism is the acceptance of allegations without evidence or proof, either apart from or against the evidence of one's senses and one's reason. Mysticism is the claim to some non-sensory, non-rational, non-definable, non-identifiable means of knowledge, such as "instinct," "intuition," "revelation," or any form of "just knowing." - Ayn Rand


There are people with brain damages, that don't have the ability to let their rational thoughts be guided by emotions. These individuals usually have huge problems, and modern neuroscience claims that emotions are extremely important for guiding our reasoning.

Ayn Rand was also perhaps more than anyone dominated by instincts and intuition.

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: Zanthius]
    #10575977 -

Zanthius said:
There are people with brain damages, that don't have the ability to let their rational thoughts be guided by emotions.


I must be one of these 'brain damaged' people then. But ya know, there are those people that don't have the ability to let their emotions be guided by rational thoughts. These are really the people to worry about.


Quote:
These individuals usually have huge problems, and modern neuroscience claims that emotions are extremely important for guiding our reasoning.


Show me the study. In my experience (and throughout history) people who let their emotions guide their reasoning are usually brutish, immature and unstable.

Quote:
Ayn Rand was also perhaps more than anyone dominated by instincts and intuition.


Ughh No! She was an extreme advocate of reason. Nice try though.

Edited by RationalEgo (06/26/09 12:26 PM)

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Re: The mystical nature of the mystical [Re: RationalEgo]
    #10576007 -


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