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InvisibleShroomismM
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Contact Experiment
    #845759 - 08/27/02 02:07 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

Over the past couple years I've received many PMs from people describing their contact experiences with higher dimensional beings or otherworldly presences. Beings that reside in a vibrational level that is faster than our own... they live more in the spiritual world than in the physical, yet they are still physical. Being in a lower density, or dimension, as these beings.. we are often unable to perceive their presence.

The human mind is capable of many different states and has many 'hidden compartments' where memories can be tucked away. There are different states of concentration... or conscious focus. Many times we are in trance like states of consciousness, or in the dream state... more 'fluid' states where we are able to perceive more subtle energies and whatnot. Oftentimes these extra-dimensional beings are with us, but unperceived.

Most of us have had contact. Few of us remember.

What I'd like to get out of this is for anyone that has a contact experience or what you think might be... during a trip or a dream or whatever... send it to me in a PM. I want to collect as many as possible for a study.


I'm going to write a guide for initiating and/or remembering contact.
But I'm going to start with the first step, the mind and our perceptions.

The most common states of mind I am aware of for contact to be processed and remembered are..
Dreams
A trancelike state such as in deep meditations or while drumming
During a mushroom trip or even acid trip where awareness is increased
Any state of mind with an increased awareness of surroundings and subtle, more 'spiritual' energies

Human consciousness has three compartments. Conscious, subconscious, and unconscious. Unconscious is the soul level, our eternal awakened consciousness... subconscious is where most memories are stored and all of the effects of those memories... conscious is the thing you use whenever you are focusing on something...
Conscious constantly gives and receives information from the subconscious, it compares what it is currently experiencing with any previous memories it may have had that are similar, and returns to the conscious with any attached emotions or repressed feelings it has towards that situation or experience.

Often an experience is almost beyond our level of perception, or so subliminal we don't even notice. Conscious isn't aware of what is going on in subconscious all the time. Conscious is focused on the outside world. Subconscious can still pick up information from the outside world, thereby completely bypassing consciousness. Something can effect you without you being consciously aware of it, but deep down you know.

When you go to sleep at night, conscious stops focusing on the physical world, it just sort of shuts down. Subconscious rules. Without the constant barrage of information from the conscious, subconscious is free to cogitate and process information.

The point of all this is that spiritual beings, or higher vibrational physical beings, are not within the perceivable range of the conscious mind. Subconscious may be aware of the presence and/or communication with the beings, but conscious may just go along blissfully unaware...

I'm going to talk about how to become aware how to prepare for contact. Later.
For now anyone that remembers anything please send me your experience via PM.




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InvisibleMystical_Craven
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #846633 - 08/27/02 12:07 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

I'm interrested in hearing about some of your findings...if you're sent anything that that particular individual wouldn't mind sharing with others, I'd appreciate it if you were to post it here (or at least, give a general synopsis of things that you've been sent) I think this sort of stuff is fascinating, and I would love to learn from other's experiences as well.


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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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Offlinepattern
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #846891 - 08/27/02 02:07 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

You've got my PM





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man = monkey + mushroom


Edited by pattern (08/27/02 08:17 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Mystical_Craven]
    #846938 - 08/27/02 02:35 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

I think as little as possible should be publicly shared at this time as it may further "color" other's experiences. Raw data should continue to be collected by shroomism through reports and questionaires. Group voyages / experiments should be then be done.

The public report should come after that.

Also a committee, of let's say 5 contactees and 5 skeptics should volunteer and be voted in by poll. Only they should be privy to the initial data and would be involved in designing the questionaire and any experiments.

I will offer to be on the skeptic side. Shroomism should automatically be part of the contactee board as keeper of the reports.

All other nominee's names should be submitted within a week and a vote taken if more than 5 volunteers per side.

One neutral party should be named as the final arbiter in the event of any unforeseeable voting deadlock. I would nominate Mr. Mushrooms or MarkosTheGnostic for that position.


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The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (08/27/02 03:08 PM)


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InvisibleMystical_Craven
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #847005 - 08/27/02 03:02 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

good point swam...I didn't even think about that. In that case - I'd like to volunteer for one of the contactee positions (assuming of course that such a position is open) and I agree with having Mr Mushrooms as a neutral - I think he'd be perfect for that position


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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #847251 - 08/27/02 05:14 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

Shroomism I've shared my experiences with you before...
let me know if you need me to re-send some of the things I've written about them.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #847275 - 08/27/02 05:27 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

If one's available... I'll take one of them thar chairs marked with a big, red "S".


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #847312 - 08/27/02 05:42 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

good point swami. If such a committee will indeed be put together, I'd like to be either a neutral or skeptic (since I have never encountered any "other" beings on or off drugs)


Edited by chodamunky (08/27/02 05:44 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: chodamunky]
    #847331 - 08/27/02 05:51 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

That's an idea, too. Perhaps a committee of 9 with 3 neutrals, 3 skeptics and 3 contactees.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinepattern
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #847435 - 08/27/02 06:36 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

Can one be a skeptic and contactee at the same time?


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man = monkey + mushroom


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Adamist]
    #847443 - 08/27/02 06:39 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

If anyone has sent me their contact experiences before, it would be nice if you could send them to me again as most of my PMs were lost last I got deleted.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #847458 - 08/27/02 06:46 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

Off the top of my head I'd like to nominate these people work on this..

3 contactees..
Adamist, Myself and Craven

3 skeptics
Sclorch, Swami and Evolving?

3 neutrals
Mr Mushrooms, Markos and ____?

So I'm going to go about collecting as much raw data as possible. This requires input.. so send me your experiences and maybe I will create some sort of survey?


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #847518 - 08/27/02 07:03 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

3 skeptics
Sclorch, Swami and Evolving?


I'm game.

This could be quite educational...


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InvisiblethePatient
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #847538 - 08/27/02 07:13 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

i consider myself quite neutral on the subject of alien encounters. **shrugs**


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T h e r e  a r e  n o  o r d i n a r y  m o m e n t s.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: thePatient]
    #847561 - 08/27/02 07:23 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

So you can be the third neutral


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #847572 - 08/27/02 07:28 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

I would love to help with this in anyway that I can.


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RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #847574 - 08/27/02 07:29 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

You can be a test subject


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #847584 - 08/27/02 07:33 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

sounds good, I've always wanted to see me a grey.


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RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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InvisibleMystical_Craven
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #848079 - 08/27/02 10:47 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

Quick question - when you say "send me your experiences" is there anything in particular that you're looking for, or just anything in general? Cause I could probably send ya a quick overview of some of mine, and then just expand on the things that you think might be important...or I could just go straight to the drawn out version and let you sift through it. Either one is cool with me, so just tell me what you're looking for and I'll send it your way.

example: I've had quite a few dreams in the past about three dementional / holographic writtings...I'm not sure if these would even fit with the whole alien 'thing' cause I've never been too sure if that's where they come from or not...so would a description of something like that be important? (note: this is just one example, there are other 'things' that fall somewhere in the grey area too...so I guess what I'm trying to say is - do you want all the 'grey' stuff too, or just the info on things I personally feel are from/about aliens)


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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Mystical_Craven]
    #848199 - 08/28/02 12:44 AM (18 years, 28 days ago)

Basically a full report of whatever you can remember from the experience, including:

General Time of the event

Overall theme

Feelings and emotions felt ... and reactions

Anything that was communicated or felt

Who was present, what were the circumstances surrounding the event

Anything you did before that might effect your state of mind such as mushrooms, meditation, etc..

What you gained or learned from the experience

Anything else you can remember that might be useful


The 'grey' areas can be used too... send whatever you think is helpful.


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Edited by Shroomism (08/28/02 12:46 AM)


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #848443 - 08/28/02 06:47 AM (18 years, 28 days ago)

My only concern is that some people sound like they expect this to "prove" something.

Perhaps we should run a similar report side by side with this one to see how a more "normal" human experience (perhaps the experience of love) compares with the more unusual experience of meeting entities. Obviously science can prove nothing about the existence or non-existence of love but our conditioning has taught us to accept it's existence. Similarly there is no way of scientifically proving the human experience with entities, the only difference is our cultural conditioning has taught us to doubt these experiences. The experience of love has no more scientific weight than the experience of meeting entities.

All we'll have in the end is people who've experienced it and people who havn't. Similar to people who've experienced love and people who havn't.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Xlea321]
    #848459 - 08/28/02 07:00 AM (18 years, 28 days ago)

By it's very nature this could not be approached as a physics experiment, it would have to be addressed in a manner such as one would use in sociology or psychology.


Edited by Evolving (08/28/02 07:01 AM)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Xlea321]
    #848469 - 08/28/02 07:07 AM (18 years, 28 days ago)

Close examination of anything is not harmful except to those afraid the results might not be what they expect. (Please don't read anything personal in here as there is nothing). I think that we are all hoping to learn something rather than to prove something.

If you want to head up a love poll, feel free to do so, but there is no reason to dilute resources and distract the current focus.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Xlea321]
    #848531 - 08/28/02 07:59 AM (18 years, 27 days ago)

I'm approaching this with an open agenda.. I'm not out to 'prove' anything, merely to possibly gain a little insight into the matter. My main focus on the contact experience is the mind states involved, but we will focus on many aspects of it.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Contact Experiment *DELETED* [Re: Shroomism]
    #848619 - 08/28/02 08:44 AM (18 years, 27 days ago)

Just wondering what the purpose of the "sceptics" is. Are we collecting peoples experiences or are we trying to explain what it might mean? If we're just collecting experience I'm not sure what place there is for the sceptics or the "pro-contact" people..


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


Edited by Alex123 (08/28/02 08:49 AM)


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Xlea321]
    #848627 - 08/28/02 08:46 AM (18 years, 27 days ago)

I think the skeptics are neccessary.... for what... I don't know just yet

But so far I've got about 20 PMs of people's experiences....very interesting stuff

Keep 'em coming people!


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InvisibleSmack31
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #849025 - 08/28/02 12:26 PM (18 years, 27 days ago)

can i be in charge of the snack bar?


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Smack31]
    #849043 - 08/28/02 12:34 PM (18 years, 27 days ago)

most definetely


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #849176 - 08/28/02 01:47 PM (18 years, 27 days ago)

I would nominate Mr. Mushrooms or MarkosTheGnostic for that position.

Thank you Swami. I would be honored. It does mean that I will not be submitting my stories though. I was actually going to reveal albeit through a PM what has happened to me.

I have been working on Shroomery projects and haven't been reading but I will set aside some time for this worthy project.

I don't have to wear any clothes for this do I? I always picture neutral parties in the nude.

Cheers,

btw, since the e-mail thing became available my e-mail notifications have stopped. They are trying to fix it.


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Offlinepattern
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: ]
    #849371 - 08/28/02 03:27 PM (18 years, 27 days ago)

Or is this just a chance for a few egomaniacs to get the inside scoop on some nutball alien-encounter writings?

Shroomism, you may use my PM any way you wish, but to suppose people will just tell a group of strangers something very personal?

You haven't earned my trust.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: pattern]
    #849454 - 08/28/02 04:19 PM (18 years, 27 days ago)

I hear you Pattern. I haven't told my story to nearly anyone. I have had many requests for it but it is very revealing, intimate. It's like telling someone about making love to your wife or something. I'm glad I'm let off the hook.

Cheers,


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Offlinepattern
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: ]
    #851108 - 08/29/02 12:57 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

> I'm glad I'm let off the hook.

No one is "on the hook". So far all I see are people wanting to be judges... where are the subjects? Unless you have those, there is no experiment.

My PM contained no info. Have fun with it.


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man = monkey + mushroom


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #852698 - 08/30/02 08:02 AM (18 years, 25 days ago)

I voluntier to be the neutral


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #853720 - 08/30/02 07:01 PM (18 years, 25 days ago)

Well, there are three instances off the top of my head, when apparently human beings appeared, and provided me with something that I very much needed at the time. The Bible says that sometimes we 'entertain' angels, unaware of the fact. Humans that are unwittingly the agents of Divine Intervention seems to widen the species of 'alien encounters.' However, I am not convinced that they were 'possessed,' by 'external' beings, as much as humans acting in a capacity that was perhaps influenced in a spiritual way. Whatever the case, tis would seem to compromise my neutrality in such a study.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: pattern]
    #854111 - 08/30/02 11:20 PM (18 years, 25 days ago)

Still waiting.

Cheers,


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: ]
    #854509 - 08/31/02 08:20 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

So I'm wondering where I should start with this... should I just start posting others experiences with their permission? Think I should take out the name of the person to make it anonymous? I think so far have enough material to begin the analysis process.


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #854560 - 08/31/02 09:06 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Sounds like a plan Shroomism. By all means do not include their name, moniker, appellation, or anything that signifies who they are.

Let's roll.

Cheers,


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment *DELETED* [Re: ]
    #854578 - 08/31/02 09:19 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Post deleted by Shroomism


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment *DELETED* [Re: Shroomism]
    #854584 - 08/31/02 09:24 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Post deleted by Shroomism


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment *DELETED* [Re: Shroomism]
    #854591 - 08/31/02 09:29 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Post deleted by Shroomism


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment *DELETED* [Re: Shroomism]
    #854593 - 08/31/02 09:31 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Post deleted by Shroomism


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment *DELETED* [Re: Shroomism]
    #854596 - 08/31/02 09:35 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Post deleted by Shroomism


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #854607 - 08/31/02 09:45 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Here I would like to interject something that may help us all to understand these experiences.

1. Empirical science has a lot to say concerning the waking reality we all experience. If the experience contradicts what we know to be true in normal states of consciousness I would find it suspect.

2. Altered states of consciousness cannot be readily understood using empirical methods alone because the methodology is incomplete for the task. We can monitor brain waves and chemical pathways but those techniques can only take us so far. You cannot put a dream or even a thought under a microscope, let alone an alien.

If this is clear we can proceed.

Cheers,


Edited by Mr_Mushrooms (08/31/02 09:47 AM)


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: ]
    #854616 - 08/31/02 09:56 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

I don't own a microscope  :smirk: 


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #854653 - 08/31/02 10:31 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

This is exactly what I think should NOT be done. Making these public now will color any future questionaires making them less valid.

For example: Someone "sees" an amorphous blob while peaking. They know from public reports that many people see octopi-like alien. Suddenly their amorphous blob becomes an octopus and the reports seemingly "validate" one another.

What is our goal here? To do an unbiased exploration, to titillate one another with fantastic tales or to get agreement ?


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #854655 - 08/31/02 10:36 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

To examine the experiences and any parrallels, similarities and researchable info, for the purpose of gaining more insight into the nature of these quite common experiences. .


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Edited by Shroomism (08/31/02 10:39 AM)


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #854665 - 08/31/02 10:52 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Don't kid yourself Shroomism... this is highly UNscientific.

If your goal is truth, delete those posts. If we're going to get anything out of this, we need to be as unbiased as possible (unless you're done collecting experiences forever).


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #854667 - 08/31/02 10:52 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

I'm caught between Swami's opinion and Shroomism's...

Reading this definately helped me somehow because I recognized things common to my own experiences in all of them. It's nice to know that I'm not alone these types of things and I am very interested to learn more about what other's are experiencing. I don't think that what happens to us should be hid in closets because it's not "accepted" by most people.

But in regards to the experiment, I can see Swami's point. But maybe it's a good thing that people are reading what it's like to have an "alien experience" so that they may get hints on how to facilitate their own...

I think it's very possible to hallucinate alien experiences which don't really exist... But hallucinations can only be so real, at least with mushrooms. You may hear voices and see signs of stuff but when you actually encounter another being, I think you can definately feel it. But then again, it could just be our brains using our senses to trick that feeling into us. But who's doing this to our brains, the aliens or ourselves?


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Edited by Adamist (08/31/02 10:54 AM)


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Sclorch]
    #854674 - 08/31/02 11:00 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

What are we going to study then Sclorch?
Besides, how scientific can you be when studying the nature of contact experiences?
Anyways.. I'm not a scientist.


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #854680 - 08/31/02 11:06 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Shroomism-

I said this before...
I think you should write down the different elements of each of these experiences.
Like reptilians or grays, tripping or sober (I think we should stick to tripping tales only), friend or foe, etc....

THEN, graph these out... if you would just compile the raw data, I'll actually graph it for you (then I can just take a screenshot of the graph and post it here). I was also wondering- how many very-detailed experiences (trip-specific) have you collected to date?

If we have a large enough sample group, I think the poll will be reasonably accurate. From there, we can focus on the more interesting aspects of these experiences. There are already a few things that have caught my eye.


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #854686 - 08/31/02 11:13 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

This is exactly what I think should NOT be done. Making these public now will color any future questionaires making them less valid.

Did you mention this before he posted the experiences?

What is our goal here? To do an unbiased exploration, to titillate one another with fantastic tales or to get agreement ?

I do not think that a completely unbiased exploration is possible given the already indicated bias of the two sides, i.e. skeptics and believers. For the same reason agreement might not be possible. But that does not mean that we cannot explore the phenomenon for factual truth. I think that should be our goal.

Cheers,



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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Sclorch]
    #854688 - 08/31/02 11:14 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

> Don't kid yourself Shroomism... this is highly UNscientific.

WHO CARES ITS FUN

but you're right

what the fuck are we? this IS a message board. its like a democratic committee on the internet. let shroomism do what shroomism does.


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Sclorch]
    #854699 - 08/31/02 11:20 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Don't kid yourself Shroomism... this is highly UNscientific.

Who said we were only going to use science to decide what the truth is? That is highly prejudicial. I demand philosophy has a say as well.

If your goal is truth, delete those posts. If we're going to get anything out of this, we need to be as unbiased as possible (unless you're done collecting experiences forever).

I do not see what the problem is unless you are concerned about copy-cat pm's. If that were a concern, you, like Swami, had plenty of time to help create the structure. Crying and whining about it now is too little too late.


Please do not derail this thread. We all have a chance to learn something if we keep the flames to a minimum.

Thank you and Cheers,


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Sclorch]
    #854712 - 08/31/02 11:28 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

I said this before...
I think you should write down the different elements of each of these experiences.
Like reptilians or grays, tripping or sober (I think we should stick to tripping tales only), friend or foe, etc....


You didn't, at least not in this thread.

THEN, graph these out... if you would just compile the raw data, I'll actually graph it for you (then I can just take a screenshot of the graph and post it here). I was also wondering- how many very-detailed experiences (trip-specific) have you collected to date?

Excellent idea. This seems to me like anthropology which has advantages and well as disadvantages.

If we have a large enough sample group, I think the poll will be reasonably accurate. From there, we can focus on the more interesting aspects of these experiences. There are already a few things that have caught my eye.

Good thoughts.

Glad to be back temporarily.

Cheers,


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #855087 - 08/31/02 03:20 PM (18 years, 24 days ago)

I think as little as possible should be publicly shared at this time as it may further "color" other's experiences. Raw data should continue to be collected by shroomism through reports and questionaires. Group voyages / experiments should be then be done.

The public report should come after that.


Oops, open mouth insert foot.

I'm sorry Swami. I didn't see this part of your comments.  If I had I never would have suggested we allow the public to see the stories.  I feel terrible. :frown:

Yours,

 


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: ]
    #855290 - 08/31/02 05:58 PM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Maybe I'm just not thinking scientifically but what's the difference between posting the data now and posting it when the experiment is completed? It could still possibly have the effect of "coloring" other's experiences...


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Adamist]
    #855402 - 08/31/02 07:27 PM (18 years, 24 days ago)

I cannot speak for Swami and my answer to him was an apology because I didn't remembering reading that section he wrote. If I would have I would not have suggested we proceed to show the anecdotes publicly because he didn't agree to it and I view him as essential to this experiment.

That being said however, it is my view as well that further anecdotes could be unduely influenced by the introduction of the previous anecdotes. A person could "remember" something in a way that they didn't remember it before they read the anecdote.

I am not sure how to proceed now. We could delete them but I do not think that wise. Or we could analyze them now without the introduction of new ones. Sclorch recommended that if I understood him correctly.

A priori coloring and a posteriori coloring are two different books.

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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Adamist]
    #855408 - 08/31/02 07:31 PM (18 years, 24 days ago)

It is called "power of suggestion". No matter what you believe, what survey would carry more weight on alien abduction - one done before "Communion" or after?

Besides, if there were no difference, why would anyone make noise about something being released in a 3 to 6 month time frame instead of now?

Note that descriptions of popular alien contact has varied from decade to decade, going from tall Nordic blonde humanoids to small slender Greys, to Mantids, to Octopi. Now are the aliens taking turns visiting or is this contamination through popular literature?

Are skeptics close-minded? No, we are cautious and deliberate, trying to determine the nature of these experiences. People have blasted me for lampooning them, but when I get serious and take you at face value and try to do real research that is undermined from the beginning, I am quickly losing interest.

New discoveries require close scrutiny of the data. Do you want a reassurance party or a serious investigation? That is the only question at this point.

An uncontrolled experiment is no experiment at all.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (08/31/02 07:32 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #855460 - 08/31/02 08:03 PM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Now what, Oh my Master?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #855630 - 08/31/02 09:47 PM (18 years, 24 days ago)

It is called "power of suggestion". No matter what you believe, what survey would carry more weight on alien abduction - one done before "Communion" or after?

Neither. Have you ever been able to control trips in this manner? ie you see a film and then go "I think i'll have a trip like that". Certainly doesn't work like that for me. Not in the slightest. I only wish it did.  And if it was simply the power of suggestion why havn't you seen any? It sounds like you've read and watched a lot of films about aliens.

btw, i've never seen communion anyway.  The way you keep recomending it perhaps i should  :laugh:


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Edited by Alex123 (08/31/02 09:52 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Xlea321]
    #855706 - 08/31/02 10:13 PM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Alex, thanks for keeping the opposition view in check.

I recommend seeing it. It is a great flick. I own a copy.

Cheers,


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Xlea321]
    #856273 - 09/01/02 08:14 AM (18 years, 23 days ago)

Neither. Have you ever been able to control trips in this manner? ie you see a film and then go "I think i'll have a trip like that". Certainly doesn't work like that for me. Not in the slightest.
Perhaps you should read up on the history of the "War of the Worlds" radio broadcast done by Orson Welles. People from all over the country called local authorities confirming the invasion. Water towers were shot as alien spaceships. This is recorded fact as to the power of suggestion and this effect cannot be ignored by an unbiased researcher. Were ALL listeners so affected? No.

There is also another way to view it. Someone has an unusual experience that they are not sure how to describe, so they put it in terms that they have already heard; for example, sleep paralysis. This is nothing new, but prior to the '70s it was never described in terms of alien visitation nor abduction. Black-outs and/or lapses in consciousness are nothing new, but are now called "Missing Time" and linked to abduction.

A dead goat in some parts of South America is now a "Chupacabra victim" and so on. Did they imagine the dead goat? No, the goat is real. Is the description colored by previous reports? Most definitely!

btw, i've never seen communion anyway. The way you keep recomending it perhaps i should 
The book is decent (B-), the movie is a total dud (D) IMHO (sorry Plato :frown:)

 


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (09/01/02 08:15 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #856364 - 09/01/02 09:31 AM (18 years, 23 days ago)

That's ok Swam. I also like Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns.

De gustibus non disputantum est.

Cheers,


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: ]
    #856424 - 09/01/02 09:55 AM (18 years, 23 days ago)

An anagram for Squint, er Clint Eastwood is Old West Action - hmmm...


--------------------



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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #856543 - 09/01/02 10:53 AM (18 years, 23 days ago)

Perhaps you should read up on the history of the "War of the Worlds" radio broadcast done by Orson Welles.

We are talking about two entirely different things - it's certainly possible to control peoples minds in some subtle manner using radio and TV - the american government have been studying this since the 1920's. The question is whether it's possible to control people's minds to the extent of making them experience vivid alien encounters when they are tripping alone in a room with no input from anyone else. That's a whole other ballgame. Every study that's ever been done from the Nazi's experiments with mescaline in the concentration camps to the CIA's with LSD has shown people cannot be controlled in such a manner.

So the leap in logic to think that because you've seen a film once, then the trip is simply recreating the film is kinda hard to make. You can't influence people by sitting in the room and trying everything within your power to suggest something to them, so how is a film someone saw 20 years ago going to do it?

It's easily proved. For an entire month do nothing but read about aliens, watch films about aliens and meditate "The next trip i will see aliens". At the end of the month, trip. If you see aliens then we can take "it's simply the power of suggestion" seriously.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Edited by Alex123 (09/01/02 10:57 AM)


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InvisibleMystical_Craven
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Xlea321]
    #856592 - 09/01/02 11:16 AM (18 years, 23 days ago)

Perhaps you're forgetting about people who have already had unusual experiences that they're not all together sure how to describe. If they were to read someone else's experience and notice something about it that reminded them of what they've experienced in the past, then it's entirely possible that they'll use similiar wording when describing their own experiences. All this does is make it seem like both events are similiar enough that they could be the same sort of event being experienced by two sperate individuals (par exampla: if person A has an experience with a shadowy figure, but he can't quite describe it...and then he reads about someone else who had an encounter with another shadowy figure, and this person gives a very detailed description...it's entirely possible person A might think something along the lines of "surely that's the same thing I saw" and then subconscious give a similar description based off of the one that was posted by the other individual) I think this is kind of what Swami meant by people's descriptions being 'colored' by other ones that have already been posted.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Mystical_Craven]
    #856628 - 09/01/02 11:27 AM (18 years, 23 days ago)

Well you could be right but I'd like to credit people at the forum with a little more intelligence than that. If they have an experience I'd like to think they would be able to relate it in an honest and intelligent manner. If they can't do that then yes we are wasting our time. The reports I've read so far havn't indicated that's the case yet tho.


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #856705 - 09/01/02 12:04 PM (18 years, 23 days ago)

You are frightening me!


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #856715 - 09/01/02 12:06 PM (18 years, 23 days ago)

How do you know the difference between aliens, and evil? :confused: 


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Fliquid]
    #857154 - 09/01/02 03:58 PM (18 years, 23 days ago)

At least by posting peoples experiences, others that may not have given there accounts, may be encouraged to come forward. After reading the accounts of others it may be realized that a personal account may be more valid than otherwise thought.


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: jayson]
    #857199 - 09/01/02 04:19 PM (18 years, 23 days ago)

At least by posting peoples experiences, others that may not have given there accounts, may be encouraged to come forward.

OR we could simply ASK people for their experiences... I don't know what's more encouraging than that. Of course, it's all in private (no public posts, as we've all agreed), so again I fail to see how it would be discouraging. Furthermore, all of us "skeptics" have yet to knock any of the experiences (just read this post) since we've started talking about this experiment.


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Sclorch]
    #857562 - 09/01/02 07:14 PM (18 years, 23 days ago)

Ok..sorry I haven't responded..life gets crazy on the weekends..
Alright.. I'll play along... deleting all the other's experiences.

So where do we go from here? I figure from here I am just going to do one on one interviews with the individuals and get more details..then I can compile the raw data like Sclorch suggested.


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #857634 - 09/01/02 07:48 PM (18 years, 23 days ago)

Yes yes!! Compile Compile!!!




Sorry. Got a little excited.


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Sclorch]
    #857654 - 09/01/02 08:00 PM (18 years, 23 days ago)

I'm on it like flies on shit!  :grin:

May take a few days though 


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Sclorch]
    #857676 - 09/01/02 08:12 PM (18 years, 23 days ago)

Furthermore, all of us "skeptics" have yet to knock any of the experiences

Knock them? How can you "knock" someone elses experience?

By far the biggest problem with anything like this isn't "colouring" peoples experience or "the power of suggestion" it's the simple fact that language is completely and totally inadequate to describe in any but the vaguest terms a psychedelic experience.


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Xlea321]
    #857856 - 09/01/02 09:54 PM (18 years, 23 days ago)

This isn't about any ol' psychedelic experience... it's about ALIEN CONTACT.



On a side note...
A fire can't start itself.
You figure it out.


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Sclorch]
    #857923 - 09/01/02 10:28 PM (18 years, 23 days ago)

Lightning has been known to cause fires


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #858018 - 09/01/02 11:16 PM (18 years, 23 days ago)

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

Deleted posts! Just like fresh meat, nummy nummy for my tummy!

Now were getting somewhere!

Thank you Mr. Shroomism!

Cheers,


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Xlea321]
    #858277 - 09/02/02 06:19 AM (18 years, 23 days ago)

By far the biggest problem with anything like this isn't "colouring" peoples experience or "the power of suggestion" it's the simple fact that language is completely and totally inadequate to describe in any but the vaguest terms a psychedelic experience.

The harder an experience is to describe, actually the more the resultant descriptions WILL be colored by previous reports.

A 4D entity that transforms into multiple objects and colors (such as on DMT) is, as you state almost impossible to describe, yet after McKenna, many people clearly state that they have indeed seen the elves. This is most definitely "coloring" as I believe I have witnessed what he is talking about, yet it would never have occurred to me to call "them" elves.


--------------------



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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #858280 - 09/02/02 06:26 AM (18 years, 23 days ago)

yet it would never have occurred to me to call "them" elves.

Really this only proves my point. If there are no words to describe what you have seen then what else can we do but borrow some word that vaguely relates to it? I may call an entity "reptilian" but i certainly couldn't take you to a zoo and point one out. Reptilian is simply the closest word that exists in language.

Unless we start creating our own language...


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Xlea321]
    #858288 - 09/02/02 06:35 AM (18 years, 23 days ago)

Unless we start creating our own language... Now there's an idea! Certainly, English is far from adequate in describing pyschedelic and paranormal experiences...


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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: psilo25]
    #859089 - 09/02/02 03:41 PM (18 years, 22 days ago)

OR we could simply ASK people for their experiences... I don't know what's more encouraging than that. Of course, it's all in private (no public posts, as we've all agreed), so again I fail to see how it would be discouraging. Furthermore, all of us "skeptics" have yet to knock any of the experiences (just read this post) since we've started talking about this experiment.

You misunderstood. "Valid." In other wards worth telling.
An experience that one person considers to be mundane, and very ordinary. May in fact be the best story told.

The harder an experience is to describe, actually the more the resultant descriptions WILL be colored by previous reports.

I agree with alex123, an experience thats unworldy basicly defies description.
Simply expressing the experience with words, will color the incident. What about TV, books, friends, and most importantly the imagination.


Edited by jayson (09/03/02 02:48 PM)


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InvisibleMystical_Craven
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Xlea321]
    #859104 - 09/02/02 03:52 PM (18 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Unless we start creating our own language... 


I'm already working on one...it should be ready some time near the end of 2012  :wink:
 


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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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Invisibletak_old
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Mystical_Craven]
    #862590 - 09/04/02 12:40 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

In reply to:

Note that descriptions of popular alien contact has varied from decade to decade, going from tall Nordic blonde humanoids to small slender Greys, to Mantids, to Octopi. Now are the aliens taking turns visiting or is this contamination through popular literature?




It's a change in aliens fashion. These new teen aliens are trying to be hip ;]


Actually I would like an experiance of the sort. I do believe, but it is a difficult subject. People who don't believe shouldn't be forced, but I think people like me who are open to suggestion, and relize there is more to what we are than what we see should get a chance. Coming close to the edge, I need a little push, then freedom is mine.


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: tak_old]
    #862713 - 09/04/02 03:20 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

Note that descriptions of popular alien contact has varied from decade to decade, going from tall Nordic blonde humanoids to small slender Greys, to Mantids, to Octopi. Now are the aliens taking turns visiting or is this contamination through popular literature?

I can definately see how this could have a minor effect on people's perceptions of just what they experienced when in the prescence of what they believe to be aliens.... but, the first types of beings I came into contact with were reptilian, and before this I had NEVER heard of such a thing, except maybe dinosaurs... Of course I've heard and seen of the "Greys" before, so I agree that could have influenced my mind to trick itself into believing I see them sometimes, but I'm not so sure... especially after it keeps happening, and thoughts seem to be originating from a seperate entity, not myself.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Adamist]
    #862904 - 09/04/02 06:50 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

I agree Adamist.

Jung mentioned this in his book on flying saucers:

"A psychic content can only appear as a projection when its connection with the ego personality is not recognized. For this reason, the wish hypothesis must be discarded."


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlinellib
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #869995 - 09/08/02 11:47 AM (18 years, 16 days ago)

Have you done DMT?


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Offlinellib
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #870026 - 09/08/02 12:02 PM (18 years, 16 days ago)

I am not sure what you mean by contact. If you mean having , in the traditional use of our senses, visions, auditory exepriences, then I would have to say no I have not had that type of contact.

But I HAVE made contact. My sister died when she was 28. I was 31 at the time. There is no doubt that she made contact with me, but it was more of an awareness, a feeling. I woke up at night about 4 am , i was paralyzed, laying on my back. I thought, this is a dream. I couldnt move my head right or left, but i could blink my eyelashes. Then I said, well maybe my eyelash blinking is some part of REM sleep.

I existed this way, and I am convinced that I was not dreaming. Then it happened.
I had been quite troubled because i was in route to see here flying from LA to CT, connecting through chicago. She was failing from AIDS. My mother called me on a thursday afternoon and said, i should come. So I got the next flight to the east coast which was the enxt morning. I connected through chicago and called to see how things were. During my flight from LA to chicago, she had passed.

Needless to say I was devastated and couldnt function very well at work.

So this happened about 6 weeks after, this experience. When I was a small boy i ddint like girls to kiss me. My sister would always try to kiss me and tease me. So whil elaying in bed paralyzed looking up, a very very strong energy enveloped my entire body and my body felt like it was tingling. Then that feeling of when I was a little boy, submerged me into a warmth and bliss like I have never experienced before.

When I awoke later in the morning, I was fine and functional again.

Up to thi stime i was the rigid "scientist" using scientific methodlogy an dtaking teh approach, prove-it to call something the truth.

No longer, my life had cahnged and while being a surgeon, to this day, I KNOW the essence of being.

knowing this and having to exist in this reality, at times is difficult. But it is teh understanding that i use to try to help others.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Sclorch]
    #871073 - 09/09/02 03:38 AM (18 years, 16 days ago)

For this report we will be using 10 seperate experiences.

4 during a trip.. one lsd, two mushrooms, one dmt. 3 are sober experiences. 3 occur in dreams.

When describing the physical appearance, 4 of the reports were the common grey, 2 reptile, 3 'formless' energy, in the form of light and awareness or a very dark presence a subtle 'perceived' energy, 1 was a being similar to human.

In describing whether friend or foe, 2 of the reports are a perceived malevolent force. 7 are benevolent. 1 is unsure or neutral.

Of the cases studied, 8 receive a distinct and seemingly profound message. 2 are scared and confused.

I don't know how putting this into numbers is going to do anything..and it's giving me a headache, so I'm going to smoke a bowl.



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OfflineCleverName
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #871133 - 09/09/02 04:25 AM (18 years, 16 days ago)

hey, good call, im going to smoke a bowl too


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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OfflineThe_Greater_God
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: CleverName]
    #871158 - 09/09/02 04:54 AM (18 years, 16 days ago)

Check your pm's


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Reality continues to stand in the way of what I truly want to do


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #878962 - 09/11/02 08:59 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

I really have no clue where this is going. I just want to analyze the experiences.
I guess since that will just "color the results" whatever that means.. I'll just let it sit for now.


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #883893 - 09/15/02 07:55 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

I want to analyze the experiences, too...

Okay Swami, since your the one who objected to posting the experiences, what direction should this experiment go in at this point?


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #884042 - 09/15/02 08:58 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

I guess since that will just "color the results" whatever that means...

Pretending ignorance doesn't become you.

How is this abduction report:

Mr. Belans, a Belgian who suffered missing time and amnesia following an encounter with a flying craft. The incident occurred at dusk, as he was walking in an isolated area of Brabant where suspicious traces - notably crushed vegetation- had been noticed by farmers in their wheat fields. At the site he saw a man in dressed in black waiting for something under a tree. Intrigued, Belans stopped and watched. Soon a strange feeling of tiredness overcame himm, as if another entity had taken control of his actions. He heard a buzzing sound, soon followed be a very bright light, as an elongated craft landed near him. A door opened over a faintly luminous rectangle and the man in black climbed into the object. A force impelled Belans to follow. He found himself in a room that was evenly lit but without any observable source of light. A faint vibration was felt and the craft took off. A tall man entered and communicated with Belans telepathically. He revealed that he came from a distant star.
"Why don't you establish open contact?" asked Belans.
"Because we do not wish to force rapid evolution," the ufonaut replied.
Belans was eventually returned to earth, with a significant period of missing time.

I think we have all the major elements here, except that this was from a science fiction story written in the 1930's by Ege Tilms.

I can already hear the tired prepackaged responses:

1. It was true story dressed up as fiction.

2. It was a repressed memory that was expressed as fiction.

But maybe, just maybe, it was actually fiction AS THE AUTHOR CLAIMED!



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #884054 - 09/15/02 09:02 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

Dude, you need to watch the Matrix.  It's real! :shocked:

:wink:

The friend,


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #884111 - 09/15/02 09:18 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

What about the other thousands and millions of stories that are claimed as non-fiction?


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #884122 - 09/15/02 09:22 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

My responses are by no means pre-packaged. Don't go jumping to conclusions.

Truth is stranger than fiction.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Adamist]
    #884142 - 09/15/02 09:29 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

I have pretty much lost interest as very few here seem to really care about discovering any underlying truth. Yes shroomism has collected the reports, but if you remember, it was I who was the catalyst for this whole idea. I make one reasonable stipulation and it is instantly trampled on. No, my ego is not hurt, it is just that an experiment or research into to this area MUST have controls. Without guidelines, all you have is chaos and noise and any underlying signal is lost.

Now swapping stories is fun, but where has it got anyone? We know hardly more today than 30 years ago.

Okay Swami, since your the one who objected to posting the experiences, what direction should this experiment go in at this point?

As the data is already tainted (not because of this thread, but because of media exposure) perhaps it is time to get to the meat and potatoes. I would suggest a kind of "Good Friday" experiment. A group of volunteers are needed who are over 21, have never had an alien encounter in any reality, have reasonable psychedelic experience, but have never tripped heavily on mushrooms. An equal number of sitters would be a good idea so that everyone felt safe. If so desired, an attempt to "invoke" an alien presence would be acceptable as long as no specific information or details of what to expect are revealed. I would suggest a dosage of 5 to 8 grams dependent on body weight and disposition.

Ideally the trippers should not know one another and communication should be absolutely minimal before and during the test. Tape recordings should be made during the trip and their experience should be written down as soon as they are coherent and collected enough to write.

An essay and a questionaire would both be needed. Then the reports could be compared for shared visions, alien contact and telepathy at the same time.

However, the feasability of coordinating such an event and the legal ramifications for an organizer make this most unlikely.

An internet group trip is much more likely, but the lack of controls would make it almost worthless.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #884167 - 09/15/02 09:41 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

Well Swami, I speak for myself only when I say I have been to many gatherings... where any number of random people that don't know each other attend. Most of time there would be mushrooms involved, and a fire. I cannot count the number of times that an 'otherworldly presence' has been mentioned by the random people in attendance. Oftentimes these people feel like they are being taught something by this presence, or that the gathering of people creates a playful energy that is inviting to them and they come to help bond the group. (hey at least I'm not the only psychotic delusional imagining aliens right?)

Tell you what... next time I go on one of these adventures, I will bring a tape recorder. Maybe even a video camera. Maybe I'll go with a few random people from the Shroomery, and there would certainly be a lot of anonymous people in these mountains of west virginia. I could certainly write a detailed report, and I'm sure I could get others to as well. Hell Swami, why don't you come with me?


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Edited by Shroomism (09/15/02 09:42 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #884180 - 09/15/02 09:46 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

Cynic.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #884181 - 09/15/02 09:46 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

What about the other thousands and millions of stories that are claimed as non-fiction?

My post was not about the truth or falsehood of the reports, but about coloration. This piece of fiction predated Betty and Barney, et al.

Each report read influences to some degree the next person's report. To deny this is to have no grasp of basic psychology.

Do you believe that mermaids exist? We have scoured the oceans and not discovered any. Yet how many sailor's tales influenced the next sighting of a manatee to be reported as a mermaid? This is coloring.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #884217 - 09/15/02 10:00 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

Yeah well they just took new pictures of Nessy! :tongue:

Cheers, :wink: 


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: ]
    #884229 - 09/15/02 10:04 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

Link please. The infamous and nebulous 1930 picture that has been in every fringe book was an admitted fake.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #884240 - 09/15/02 10:09 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)



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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: ]
    #884271 - 09/15/02 10:30 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

That is a picture of me on my back underwater in an aroused state.

Why does Nessie have such a negative impact of film clarity?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #884347 - 09/15/02 11:05 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

Is that a pun? :grin:

Cheers,


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: ]
    #884352 - 09/15/02 11:08 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

You know that I choose my words carefully. 'Nuff said.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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