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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment *DELETED* [Re: Shroomism]
    #854593 - 08/31/02 09:31 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Post deleted by Shroomism


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment *DELETED* [Re: Shroomism]
    #854596 - 08/31/02 09:35 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #854607 - 08/31/02 09:45 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Here I would like to interject something that may help us all to understand these experiences.

1. Empirical science has a lot to say concerning the waking reality we all experience. If the experience contradicts what we know to be true in normal states of consciousness I would find it suspect.

2. Altered states of consciousness cannot be readily understood using empirical methods alone because the methodology is incomplete for the task. We can monitor brain waves and chemical pathways but those techniques can only take us so far. You cannot put a dream or even a thought under a microscope, let alone an alien.

If this is clear we can proceed.

Cheers,


Edited by Mr_Mushrooms (08/31/02 09:47 AM)


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: ]
    #854616 - 08/31/02 09:56 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

I don't own a microscope  :smirk: 


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #854653 - 08/31/02 10:31 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

This is exactly what I think should NOT be done. Making these public now will color any future questionaires making them less valid.

For example: Someone "sees" an amorphous blob while peaking. They know from public reports that many people see octopi-like alien. Suddenly their amorphous blob becomes an octopus and the reports seemingly "validate" one another.

What is our goal here? To do an unbiased exploration, to titillate one another with fantastic tales or to get agreement ?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #854655 - 08/31/02 10:36 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

To examine the experiences and any parrallels, similarities and researchable info, for the purpose of gaining more insight into the nature of these quite common experiences. .


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Edited by Shroomism (08/31/02 10:39 AM)


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #854665 - 08/31/02 10:52 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Don't kid yourself Shroomism... this is highly UNscientific.

If your goal is truth, delete those posts. If we're going to get anything out of this, we need to be as unbiased as possible (unless you're done collecting experiences forever).


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #854667 - 08/31/02 10:52 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

I'm caught between Swami's opinion and Shroomism's...

Reading this definately helped me somehow because I recognized things common to my own experiences in all of them. It's nice to know that I'm not alone these types of things and I am very interested to learn more about what other's are experiencing. I don't think that what happens to us should be hid in closets because it's not "accepted" by most people.

But in regards to the experiment, I can see Swami's point. But maybe it's a good thing that people are reading what it's like to have an "alien experience" so that they may get hints on how to facilitate their own...

I think it's very possible to hallucinate alien experiences which don't really exist... But hallucinations can only be so real, at least with mushrooms. You may hear voices and see signs of stuff but when you actually encounter another being, I think you can definately feel it. But then again, it could just be our brains using our senses to trick that feeling into us. But who's doing this to our brains, the aliens or ourselves?


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


Edited by Adamist (08/31/02 10:54 AM)


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Sclorch]
    #854674 - 08/31/02 11:00 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

What are we going to study then Sclorch?
Besides, how scientific can you be when studying the nature of contact experiences?
Anyways.. I'm not a scientist.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #854680 - 08/31/02 11:06 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Shroomism-

I said this before...
I think you should write down the different elements of each of these experiences.
Like reptilians or grays, tripping or sober (I think we should stick to tripping tales only), friend or foe, etc....

THEN, graph these out... if you would just compile the raw data, I'll actually graph it for you (then I can just take a screenshot of the graph and post it here). I was also wondering- how many very-detailed experiences (trip-specific) have you collected to date?

If we have a large enough sample group, I think the poll will be reasonably accurate. From there, we can focus on the more interesting aspects of these experiences. There are already a few things that have caught my eye.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #854686 - 08/31/02 11:13 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

This is exactly what I think should NOT be done. Making these public now will color any future questionaires making them less valid.

Did you mention this before he posted the experiences?

What is our goal here? To do an unbiased exploration, to titillate one another with fantastic tales or to get agreement ?

I do not think that a completely unbiased exploration is possible given the already indicated bias of the two sides, i.e. skeptics and believers. For the same reason agreement might not be possible. But that does not mean that we cannot explore the phenomenon for factual truth. I think that should be our goal.

Cheers,



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Offlinepattern
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Sclorch]
    #854688 - 08/31/02 11:14 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

> Don't kid yourself Shroomism... this is highly UNscientific.

WHO CARES ITS FUN

but you're right

what the fuck are we? this IS a message board. its like a democratic committee on the internet. let shroomism do what shroomism does.


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man = monkey + mushroom


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Sclorch]
    #854699 - 08/31/02 11:20 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Don't kid yourself Shroomism... this is highly UNscientific.

Who said we were only going to use science to decide what the truth is? That is highly prejudicial. I demand philosophy has a say as well.

If your goal is truth, delete those posts. If we're going to get anything out of this, we need to be as unbiased as possible (unless you're done collecting experiences forever).

I do not see what the problem is unless you are concerned about copy-cat pm's. If that were a concern, you, like Swami, had plenty of time to help create the structure. Crying and whining about it now is too little too late.


Please do not derail this thread. We all have a chance to learn something if we keep the flames to a minimum.

Thank you and Cheers,


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Sclorch]
    #854712 - 08/31/02 11:28 AM (18 years, 24 days ago)

I said this before...
I think you should write down the different elements of each of these experiences.
Like reptilians or grays, tripping or sober (I think we should stick to tripping tales only), friend or foe, etc....


You didn't, at least not in this thread.

THEN, graph these out... if you would just compile the raw data, I'll actually graph it for you (then I can just take a screenshot of the graph and post it here). I was also wondering- how many very-detailed experiences (trip-specific) have you collected to date?

Excellent idea. This seems to me like anthropology which has advantages and well as disadvantages.

If we have a large enough sample group, I think the poll will be reasonably accurate. From there, we can focus on the more interesting aspects of these experiences. There are already a few things that have caught my eye.

Good thoughts.

Glad to be back temporarily.

Cheers,


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #855087 - 08/31/02 03:20 PM (18 years, 24 days ago)

I think as little as possible should be publicly shared at this time as it may further "color" other's experiences. Raw data should continue to be collected by shroomism through reports and questionaires. Group voyages / experiments should be then be done.

The public report should come after that.


Oops, open mouth insert foot.

I'm sorry Swami. I didn't see this part of your comments.  If I had I never would have suggested we allow the public to see the stories.  I feel terrible. :frown:

Yours,

 


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: ]
    #855290 - 08/31/02 05:58 PM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Maybe I'm just not thinking scientifically but what's the difference between posting the data now and posting it when the experiment is completed? It could still possibly have the effect of "coloring" other's experiences...


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Adamist]
    #855402 - 08/31/02 07:27 PM (18 years, 24 days ago)

I cannot speak for Swami and my answer to him was an apology because I didn't remembering reading that section he wrote. If I would have I would not have suggested we proceed to show the anecdotes publicly because he didn't agree to it and I view him as essential to this experiment.

That being said however, it is my view as well that further anecdotes could be unduely influenced by the introduction of the previous anecdotes. A person could "remember" something in a way that they didn't remember it before they read the anecdote.

I am not sure how to proceed now. We could delete them but I do not think that wise. Or we could analyze them now without the introduction of new ones. Sclorch recommended that if I understood him correctly.

A priori coloring and a posteriori coloring are two different books.

Cheers,


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Adamist]
    #855408 - 08/31/02 07:31 PM (18 years, 24 days ago)

It is called "power of suggestion". No matter what you believe, what survey would carry more weight on alien abduction - one done before "Communion" or after?

Besides, if there were no difference, why would anyone make noise about something being released in a 3 to 6 month time frame instead of now?

Note that descriptions of popular alien contact has varied from decade to decade, going from tall Nordic blonde humanoids to small slender Greys, to Mantids, to Octopi. Now are the aliens taking turns visiting or is this contamination through popular literature?

Are skeptics close-minded? No, we are cautious and deliberate, trying to determine the nature of these experiences. People have blasted me for lampooning them, but when I get serious and take you at face value and try to do real research that is undermined from the beginning, I am quickly losing interest.

New discoveries require close scrutiny of the data. Do you want a reassurance party or a serious investigation? That is the only question at this point.

An uncontrolled experiment is no experiment at all.



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The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (08/31/02 07:32 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #855460 - 08/31/02 08:03 PM (18 years, 24 days ago)

Now what, Oh my Master?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Contact Experiment [Re: Swami]
    #855630 - 08/31/02 09:47 PM (18 years, 24 days ago)

It is called "power of suggestion". No matter what you believe, what survey would carry more weight on alien abduction - one done before "Communion" or after?

Neither. Have you ever been able to control trips in this manner? ie you see a film and then go "I think i'll have a trip like that". Certainly doesn't work like that for me. Not in the slightest. I only wish it did.  And if it was simply the power of suggestion why havn't you seen any? It sounds like you've read and watched a lot of films about aliens.

btw, i've never seen communion anyway.  The way you keep recomending it perhaps i should  :laugh:


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Edited by Alex123 (08/31/02 09:52 PM)


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