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Invisiblepsyphon
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United States becoming Police State
    #876672 - 09/11/02 06:59 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

From http://www.smokedot.org/ : "On this one-year anniversary of 9/11, I thought it might be worthwhile to review some of the fundamental changes to Americans' legal rights by the Bush administration and the USA Patriot Act following the terror attacks. If 9/11 was an 'attack on our freedoms,' just whose side is our government on?"

From the Associated Press:

FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigation.
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records requests.
FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.
RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.
FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.
RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.
RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.


--------------------
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes."
- Marcel Proust

I wish you all ceaselessly flowing moments of happiness.


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Anonymous

Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: psyphon]
    #876686 - 09/11/02 07:04 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

... and liberals STILL want to take arms away from the people, our last line of defense against totalitarianism. Go figure.


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OfflineLarrythescaryrexS
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Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: ]
    #876701 - 09/11/02 07:08 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

We sux


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: ]
    #876796 - 09/11/02 07:36 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The idea that a bunch of hicks with guns will protect you from totalitarianism is very funny.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineLarrythescaryrexS
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Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: Phluck]
    #876832 - 09/11/02 07:44 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

well... I think a bunch of nonhicks with guns might help the hicks....  :confused:


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #876888 - 09/11/02 07:59 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

They's a bunch a New York librawls.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Anonymous

Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: Phluck]
    #877006 - 09/11/02 08:28 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

The idea that a bunch of hicks with guns will protect you from totalitarianism is very funny.



You are obviously ignorant of the use of arms and tactics. On man with a .50 caliber sniper rifle can do wonders for destroying the leadership and moral of a group of conscript soldiers.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: ]
    #877027 - 09/11/02 08:37 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

You are obviously ignorant of the use of arms and tactics. On man with a .50 caliber sniper rifle can do wonders for destroying the leadership and moral of a group of conscript soldiers.


How do you suppose that same sniper rifle would fare against carpet bombing? Or are the hicks going to take to the skies in their crop dusters to eliminate the aerial threat as well?...or maybe they can use their Ford LTD's against an Abrams tank?



--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (09/11/02 08:40 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: Rono]
    #877063 - 09/11/02 08:51 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

How do you suppose that same sniper rifle would fare against carpet bombing? Or are the hicks going to take to the skies in their crop dusters to eliminate the aerial threat as well?...or maybe they can use their Ford LTD's against an Abrams tank?



Carpet bombing doesn't work in guerilla warfare. If there are no fronts, it is very hard for such tactics as carpet bombing to yeild any positive results.

Why the insistence on calling anyone who dares to defend their liberty hicks? I could more appropriately refer to those who cower behind the skirts of their government nannies as 'sheeple.'


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: ]
    #877073 - 09/11/02 08:55 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

A) Any regime brought into power through violence will rule with violence.

B) Try and get a bunch of americans to agree enough to form a "well organized militia", without raving fanatics and idiots.

The day a militia manages to take over the US is the day the becomes a nasty totalitarian state.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: ]
    #877081 - 09/11/02 08:57 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

Why the insistence on calling anyone who dares to defend their liberty hicks? I could more appropriately refer to those who cower behind the skirts of their government nannies as 'sheeple.'


I was merely using the word "Hick" because that is the word that was originally used...I apologize to any "Hicks" that were offended....and I completely agree with the "Sheeple" comment, and have used it many times.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Anonymous

Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: Phluck]
    #877084 - 09/11/02 08:58 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

There will be change brought to the u.s. but it wont be from an uprising, or people with guns =)


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Anonymous

Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: Phluck]
    #877110 - 09/11/02 09:08 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

A) Any regime brought into power through violence will rule with violence.



The issue is defending against the emerging police state. Perhaps you prefer that the U.S. government become the Nazi Germany or Soviet Union of this century?

In reply to:

B) Try and get a bunch of americans to agree enough to form a "well organized militia", without raving fanatics and idiots.



I gather from your posts that you would consider anyone who would think to actively defend their liberties a 'fanatic' or an 'idiot.' By expressing yourself in this manner, you demonstrate that you are a willing dupe of government propoganda.

In reply to:

The day a militia manages to take over the US is the day the becomes a nasty totalitarian state.



See my previous two comments. The militia's role is not to 'take over the US,' but to defend the people's liberties against enemies both foreign and domestic. It is another one of those pesky 'checks and balances' against over-reaching government power and hence, held in contempt by statists everywhere.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: ]
    #877511 - 09/11/02 11:23 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Anyone who thinks using violence will result in greater liberties is a fanatic or an idiot.

The Soviet Union, which you seem to think is a model the US is moving towards, was created by an armed citizen revolution. They were working for the people, to create a state where everyone was treated equally and lived in harmony. Of course it became a violently controlled dictatorship, which seems to happen just about every single time there's a violent coup.

If you honestly think you can get a well controlled militia together with similar and honest goals, go for it. We'll probably end up fighting against you in WW 7, when the US becomes the horrible totalitarian state you were trying to defend yourself from.

Democracy is better. Violently shoving yourself into power is the farthest thing possible from democracy.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineLarrythescaryrexS
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Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: Phluck]
    #877526 - 09/11/02 11:32 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

what aboot the american revolution?


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #877711 - 09/11/02 12:32 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

In the american revolution, the americans were all working together for one cause. Try and do that nowadays.

Any rebel group today would not be fighting for a cause supported by the majority of the population.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: Rono]
    #877771 - 09/11/02 12:55 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Those Ford LTD's were good smooth riding cars. We used to have one until 1999.

BTW, It's called voting from the rooftops.

The gov is not going to carpet bomb an american town to eliminate a few guerillas. The best tactic is to stay on the move and not get cornered. We learned from WACO that once you're holedup in a flammable compound you can not survive. We learned from Ruby RIdge that once holed up in a cabin you are an easy victim. Once you're cornered you're easily dealt with. But as an american we do have access to guerilla weapons. Once the treads on the Abrams are destroyed the tank is easily burned. High explosives can be easily improvised as can claymore mines and other assorted explosves and boobytraps. If I knew I would engage an american armed force I could be prepared. I think I could destroy a couple hundread soldiers and millions in military hardware if I were so inclined (I'm not). Sabotage would become the most important tactic and would help to demoralize the enemy. Truck bombs could deal with heavier targets. Just remember not to close doors and keep an escape clause because if you're cornered and outgunned you're a dead man.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: psyphon]
    #877791 - 09/11/02 01:01 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

BTW, it's too late. We're already a police state. We have been for years.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #879015 - 09/11/02 10:01 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I imagine an effective chemical weapon could be fashioned from Datura plant extracts.

A very effective weapon indeed.


--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: United States becoming Police State [Re: Phluck]
    #879353 - 09/12/02 02:18 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

Anyone who thinks using violence will result in greater liberties is a fanatic or an idiot.



Why is that? It has happened before. Anyone who thinks (or thought) that laying down and licking the jack boots of government thugs is an idiot, a coward and one of the root causes of all police states in history.

"Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves."
-- Henry David Thoreau

In reply to:

Democracy is better. Violently shoving yourself into power is the farthest thing possible from democracy.



And how does the government enforce the dictates of a democracy? Violence, naked violence is the essence of all governments. Stripped to it's bare essence, men with guns will force you to obey the government, if you resist strongly enough, they will kill you. Democracy is merely a means of decision making, it is not a guarantee of justice, liberty or security and as a form of government it is most certainly capable of as much violence as all others.

I'll give you an example that you may be able to understand. This political area has a population that is 81% Jewish and 19% Arabic. This hypothetical area is controlled by a pure democracy. A vote comes up on how to deal with the Arabic minority, a 'final solution' if you will. The question is put to the voters, "Should all Arabic people be exterminated?" The voters decide by a majority of 51% to 49% "YES." Being a democracy and composed of mostly law abiding citizens such as yourself, the decision is put into action by the government. Democracy in action.


Edited by Anonymous (09/12/02 02:19 AM)


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