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 silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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 Re: The last good President of the United States...  [Re: ]
#2271964 - 01/25/04 02:51 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushmaster said:
when did he praise slavery?
He didn't, but he owned slaves. That's a bit like praising through one's actions.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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 Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: The last good President of the United States... [Re: silversoul7]
#2271967 - 01/25/04 02:51 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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silversoul7 writes:
Please educate yourself on history before engaging in debate.
Hmmm. The old "do as I say, not as I do" approach. You would do well to follow your own advice. Reagan didn't "arm" Hussein.
pinky
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vampirism
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: The last good President of the United States... [Re: silversoul7]
#2271971 - 01/25/04 02:53 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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sure he did
i remembered a few specific quotations.. can't recall any right now though
just a quick google search for: jefferson slavery
gets you a few interesting pages.. theres a book on the first google search page written about just this
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Anonymous
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Re: The last good President of the United States... [Re: silversoul7]
#2271973 - 01/25/04 02:54 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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within American politics, there are plenty of Jefferson quotes to support both liberal and conservative ideologies.
on certain things. jefferson believed in public education. that's one i can think of. he believed in racial equality, which for some reason is a "liberal" idea i hear... other than that, i can't think of much. he was pretty adamant about government being as small and frugal as possible and interfering little in commerce. i don't think you'll find him speaking any praises for wealth redistribution. the anti-gun crown would certainly have a hard time finding jefferson quotes supporting their ideas...
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: The last good President of the United States... [Re: Phred]
#2271987 - 01/25/04 03:00 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
pinksharkmark said:
silversoul7 writes:
Please educate yourself on history before engaging in debate.
Hmmm. The old "do as I say, not as I do" approach. You would do well to follow your own advice. Reagan didn't "arm" Hussein.
pinky
Ok, I apparently confused "arming" with "providing military support," which included providing military technology. Whatever the case, he did look the other way while Saddam was gassing the Kurds.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: The last good President of the United States... [Re: ]
#2271993 - 01/25/04 03:02 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushmaster said:
within American politics, there are plenty of Jefferson quotes to support both liberal and conservative ideologies.
on certain things. jefferson believed in public education. that's one i can think of. he believed in racial equality, which for some reason is a "liberal" idea i hear... other than that, i can't think of much. he was pretty adamant about government being as small and frugal as possible and interfering little in commerce. i don't think you'll find him speaking any praises for wealth redistribution. the anti-gun crown would certainly have a hard time finding jefferson quotes supporting their ideas...
I agree that the gun control people would have a hard time finding quotes to back them up, but I think I read a certain quote of his which seemed to suggest that he favored a progressive tax system. I'll try to find that one.
EDIT: Found it(actually a couple quotes)!
"Taxes should be proportioned to what may be annually spared by the individual." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1784. FE 4:15, Papers 7:557
"Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1785. ME 19:18, Papers 8:682
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
Edited by silversoul7 (01/25/04 03:07 PM)
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Anonymous
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Re: The last good President of the United States... [Re: silversoul7]
#2272097 - 01/25/04 03:40 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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yes, jefferson was a proponent of progressive taxation. that's another one.
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Anonymous
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Re: The last good President of the United States... [Re: ]
#2272120 - 01/25/04 03:48 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thomas Jefferson on Politics & Government
32. Racial Policy
In spite of the fact that he owned slaves himself, as was common with plantation owners of his time, Jefferson spoke out tirelessly throughout his life against the institution of slavery and for the right of black people to be free. Apparently there were many factors, financial, social and political, that prevented him from freeing his own slaves. In a letter to Edward Coles (Aug 25, 1814), he wrote, "The laws do not permit us to turn them loose, if that were for their good." To Edward Bancroft he wrote (in 1788), "As far as I can judge from the experiments which have been made, to give liberty to, or rather to abandon persons whose habits have been formed in slavery is like abandoning children." (ME 19:41) Thus, he seems to have sincerely believed that merely freeing the slaves was not the best solution, and that the most important step to take was the elimination of the real source of this injustice, which was the institution of slavery itself. Thus he wrote to Edward Rutledge (in 1787), "I congratulate you, my dear friend, on the law of your State, for suspending the importation of slaves, and for the glory you have justly acquired by endeavoring to prevent it forever. This abomination must have an end. And there is a superior bench reserved in heaven for those who hasten it." (ME 6:173) His overall solution to the slavery problem was to return the blacks to their own African homeland or to some land where they could live as "a free and independent people," and to provide them with implements and skills to establish their own nation.
"Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people [blacks] are to be free. Nor is it less certain that the two races, equally free, cannot live in the same government. Nature, habit, opinion has drawn indelible lines of distinction between them." --Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821. ME 1:72
"Do not mistake me. I am not advocating slavery. I am not justifying the wrongs we have committed on a foreign people... On the contrary, there is nothing I would not sacrifice to a practicable plan of abolishing every vestige of this moral and political depravity." --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Cooper, 1814. ME 14:184
"Nobody wishes more ardently to see an abolition, not only of the trade, but of the condition of slavery; and certainly, nobody will be more willing to encounter every sacrifice for that object." --Thomas Jefferson to Brissot de Warville, 1788. ME 6:428
"I can say with conscious truth that there is not a man on earth who would sacrifice more than I would to relieve us from this heavy reproach in any practicable way." --Thomas Jefferson to John Holmes, 1820. ME 15:249
"I congratulate you, fellow citizens, on the approach of the period at which you may interpose your authority constitutionally, to withdraw the citizens of the United States from all further participation in those violations of human rights which have been so long continued on the unoffending inhabitants of Africa, and which the morality, the reputation, and the best interests of our country, have long been eager to proscribe." --Thomas Jefferson: 6th Annual Message, 1806. ME 3:421
The Consequences of Slavery
"With what execration should the statesman be loaded who, permitting one half the citizens... to trample on the rights of the other, transforms those into despots, and these into enemies, destroys the morals of the one part, and the amore patriae of the other... With the morals of the people, their industry also is destroyed." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XVII, 1782. ME 2:226
"The rights of human nature [are] deeply wounded by this infamous practice [of slavery]." --Thomas Jefferson: Rights of British America, 1774. ME 1:201, Papers 1:130
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep forever: that considering numbers, nature and natural means only, a revolution of the wheel of fortune, an exchange of situation, is among possible events: that it may become probable by supernatural interference! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in such a contest." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XVIII, 1782. ME 2:227
"As it is, we have the wolf by the ears, and we can neither hold him nor safely let him go. Justice is in one scale, and self-preservation in the other." --Thomas Jefferson to John Holmes, 1820. ME 15:249
Comparing Black and White
"I have supposed the black man in his present state might not be [equal to the white man]; but it would be hazardous to affirm that equally cultivated for a few generations, he would not become so." --Thomas Jefferson to Chastellux, 1785. ME 5:6, Papers 8:186
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DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 30 days
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Re: The last good President of the United States... [Re: ]
#2272320 - 01/25/04 05:27 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Jefferson on religion:
"The clergy...believe that any portion of power confided to me [as
President] will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And
they believe rightly: for I have sworn upon the altar of God,
eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of
man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too,
in their opinion." --Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 1800.
"The Christian religion, when divested of the rags in which they
[the clergy] have enveloped it, and brought to the original purity
and simplicity of it's benevolent institutor, is a religion of all
others most friendly to liberty, science, and the freest expansion
of the human mind." --Thomas Jefferson to Moses Robinson, 1801
"It does me no harm for my neighbor to say there is no God, or twenty Gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." -Thomas Jefferson
Liberal Quotes:
"I... [am] convinced [man] has no natural right in opposition to
his social duties." --Thomas Jefferson to Danbury Baptists, 1802.
"There is a debt of service due from every man to his country,
proportioned to the bounties which nature and fortune have
measured to him." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Rutledge, 1796.
"The most effectual means of preventing the perversion of power
into tyranny are to illuminate, as far as practicable, the minds
of the people at large, and more especially to give them knowledge
of those facts which history exhibits, that possessed thereby of
the experience of other ages and countries, they may be enabled to
know ambition under all its shapes, and prompt to exert their
natural powers to defeat its purposes." --Thomas Jefferson:
Diffusion of Knowledge Bill, 1779.
"Most codes extend their definitions of treason to acts not really
against one's country. They do not distinguish between acts
against the government, and acts against the oppressions of the
government. The latter are virtues, yet have furnished more
victims to the executioner than the former. Real treasons are
rare; oppressions frequent. The unsuccessful strugglers against
tyranny have been the chief martyrs of treason laws in all
countries." --Thomas Jefferson: Report on Spanish Convention, 1792
"The general spread of the light of science has already laid open
to every view the palpable truth that the mass of mankind has not
been born with saddles on their backs nor a favored few booted
and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately by the grace of God."
--Thomas Jefferson to Roger C. Weightman, 1826.
"Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies. "
- Thomas Jefferson
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Anonymous
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Re: The last good President of the United States... [Re: chunder]
#2272499 - 01/25/04 06:36 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Two votes for Reagan?
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Anonymous
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Re: The last good President of the United States... [Re: ]
#2272638 - 01/25/04 07:31 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government. ? Thomas Jefferson
If we were directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want for bread. ? Thomas Jefferson
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. ? Thomas Jefferson
The principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but a swindling futurity on a large scale. ? Thomas Jefferson
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. ? Thomas Jefferson
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Anonymous
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Re: The last good President of the United States... [Re: chunder]
#2313256 - 02/07/04 11:28 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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shriek
*********
Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 3,274
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Re: The last good President of the United States... [Re: ]
#2313743 - 02/08/04 05:50 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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george washington
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Blastrid
e l e m e n t al i t y
Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 3,323
Loc: The Desert
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: The last good President of the United States... [Re: ]
#2318336 - 02/09/04 03:13 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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--------------------
Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
n. 3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'. Used as both an insult or an expletive.
ex. Blastrid!
Stereopattern <--My music.
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