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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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What is the difference between science and philosophy?
    #8474140 -

This is a philosophy and spirituality forum. I was wondering who here knows the difference between science and philosophy.

Are there scientific questions philosophy cannot answer?

Are there philosophical questions science cannot answer?

What is science?

What is philosophy?


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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8474166 -

Science mainly concerns itself with what is, and to do so it needs falsifiability.

Philosophy concerns itself with what ought to be, given certain assumptions, and to do so it needs reason.

That would be my spontaneous, albeit naive take on it.

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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: deimya]
    #8474171 -

deimya said:
Science mainly concerns itself with what is, and to do so it needs falsifiability.

Philosophy concerns itself with what ought to be, given certain assumptions, and to do so it needs reason.

That would be my spontaneous, albeit naive take on it.


Yea, Philosophy deals with "If...,than..." Statements. Science is trial and error??? Can someone add on? i feel im missing something.


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"If you take a psychedelic,and aren't afraid you've done too much, you haven't done enough."

:mushroom2: Terence Mckenna :mushroom2:

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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8474189 -

Science asks how do we live; philosophy asks how shall we live. Science examines and tests the material; philosophy examines and tests the immaterial.

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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: spacemonkey69]
    #8474248 -

Science represents a systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment. However, it falls short of examining the purpose or greater meaning of this knowledge. It is limited to simply describing the natural world as opposed to explaining it.

Philosophy is the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality and existence. Science is therefore encompassed by philosophy, as it deals with the study of knowledge, though in a manner only applicable to natural phenomena. It follows that there are philosophical questions that science can't answer (e.g. Why does the universe exist?), but there doesn't exist any scientific question that philosophy can't answer (as science could be considered a branch of philosophy).

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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: Akamatsu]
    #8474297 -

In that regard philosophy is sometime infatuated with itself. Philosophy doesn't answer these questions, and never did. These Ultimate Questions™ are part of a playground where nothing is ever grasped, they are only fun to fiddle with. For example, when should one consider the question "Why does the universe exist" answered considering that the next round of philosophers will invariably come up with a different view ? See Veritas' post.

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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: deimya]
    #8474368 -

deimya said:
Philosophy doesn't answer these questions, and never did.


If you're not dealing with objective evidence, then you're not able to provide objective answers. The best you can hope for is subjective answers that hold true for the inter-subjective evidence.

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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: Akamatsu]
    #8474630 -

Philosophy stands alone as separate branch of knowledge with many subfields. It can answer questions about ethics, i.e. prescriptive truth--the "ought to" and "ought not" questions and answers.

It has a categorical side that describes and defines what another branch of knowledge is, e.g. philosophy of science etc.

It has a metaphysical side that explains what reality is, not the scientific side based on empirical observation, but the ontological side based on reflective observation.

It has an objective side that isn't limited as science is. Science can only touch the surface of reality by describing what things exist or do not exist. It cannot explain what existence is.

As such, science cannot even help us understand what science is as it cannot describe or explain the intelligible objects of thought.

Philosophy's scope is wider and deeper than science will ever be. It helps us to understand the world in a deeper and fuller way.

Nevertheless, science, limited as it is, is a wonderful tool.

It is my opinion that philosophy is better.


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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8474655 -

Quote:
It cannot explain what existence is.


Neither can philosophy. Philosophy can explore what existence might be.

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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: Veritas]
    #8474772 -

There are disagreements between philosophers over what constitutes reality as there are disagreements over causation, among other things, between scientists. In each case, some explanations are more rational than others. In that sense, philosophy explains existence; science cannot even broach the subject.

NOTHING (or very little) is known with absolute certitude.

Religions, and religionists, claim to know with certitude and often are incorrect. I would hate to make philosophy or science my religion.


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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8474796 -

Care to enlighten us with a candidate for a rational explanation about existence which doesn't bask in unwarranted assumptions ? Can't you smell the infatuation already ?

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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8474817 -

Science theorizes about that which is falsifiable, whereas philosophy theorizes about that which is non-falsifiable. Whether certain philosophical theories are more or less rational than others does not establish that they accurately explain existence. It is quite interesting to consider philosophical ideas, but a mistake (IMO) to believe that they are explanations.

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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8475904 -

The philosophy of science IS a school of philosophy that is focused on the empirical world.
As such, science is characterized by quantification based upon models that ultimately are reducible to discrete and numerically measurable quanta. Physics and chemistry have the Periodic Table of the Elements for example as a basis for the physically lawful characteristics of matter.

Philosophy in the Pythagorean definition of 'love of wisdom,' may include science (Latin: scientia - knowledge), but philosophy encompasses more than the empirical and quantitative domain. Philosophy also circumscribes metaphysics - that which is ontologically 'prior to physics.' Intuition, speculation, pure reason, ecstatic flight, contemplation, faith and other modes of apprehension that are not based upon empirical data belong to philosophy proper.

The philosophy of science might approach the 'how' of the Big Bang event, but the philosophy of religion might approach the 'why' of the same event. One is grounded in empirical evidence, the other is grounded in non-empirical, even non-rational modes of apprehension. One speaks of a theoretical singularity of infinite density which, at 10 to the -43 seconds ago externalized a 4-dimensional universe from a zero-dimensional point, the other says (for example) "Let there be Light..." One is about physics, the other is about metaphysics. Both are addressing a singular Reality.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8476181 -

Quote:
One speaks of a theoretical singularity of infinite density which, at 10 to the -43 seconds ago externalized a 4-dimensional universe from a zero-dimensional point, the other says (for example) "Let there be Light..." One is about physics, the other is about metaphysics. Both are addressing a singular Reality.


There is an appreciable difference between flights of fancy from string theorist or speculative cosmologist and actual good science. Not only do they mistake the map for the territory, but they mistake their own "there be dragons" for actual dragons. The honest scientific answer is "as of now, we don't know", since our theories are, in this regime, obviously inconsistent, and our "state of the art" hypothesis unfalsifiable. No one's impressed but themselves and scientific journalism is, intentionally or not, too often misleading. This is what the philosophy of science has to say about the state of "why". I'm confident there will be further breakthroughs, but the current flavour is the same same.

As for metaphysics, it never really delivers doesn't it ? To me it always sounds like an artificial rationalization on top of physics. I'm all ears for a convincing "why" though, or would you recommend any good authors ?

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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8476191 -

Science is a philosophy, but philosophy is not a science.

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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: Middleman]
    #8476196 -

Unfortunately.

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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: deimya]
    #8476699 -

Philosophy can't explain how we came to be...


So What?

Science cannot ever fully do it either. And if you want an argument as to why that is you need look no further than the fact that scientific induction is no better than philosophical, spiritual, or even completely randomly guessed methods of induction. No one has found a valid way of explaining how we can use past events to explain the future, or even present events to explain the unobserved past. Science cannot logically find a way to do this, and this is at the mercy of further philosophical developments.

Quit being so anti-philosophy, it just shows you don't know enough about it. You talk of it like its some sort of spiritual bullshit.

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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: deimya]
    #8476978 -

Metaphysics and those who write on metaphysics are the same as your good science and speculation. I don't see a difference. There is existence and there is essence, there is Aristotle and there is Plato. I have risen on wings of consciousness which, like the "thrid heaven" of St. Paul is metaphysical and at the same time psychological, for it was this individual to whom Eternity revealed itself, and Eternity is prior to physics.

Do you want a reading list from Pythagoras to Plato to Plotinus, or from the Upanishads to Buddha to Padmasambhava, or from the Mosaic writings to Jesus to Meister Eckhart? Which strand of human historicity do you want to take in for metaphysics?


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8478342 -

@xFrockx

My "Unfortunately" was for both science and philosophy. But I beg to disagree, philosophy is not some spiritual bullshit. Is it being anti-philosophy to point its limits ? Yet I completely agree, "So what ?" indeed, philosophy goes on as it should.

@Markos
Is this knowledge, is this philosophy, or is it simply lyrical non-sense ? Sometime you have to stop and ask. It is too bad if one's premises are rotten.

So, I simply want to read something which doesn't bootstrap itself out of silly premises, something which doesn't come from a urge to explain at all cost. I'm sure you know both guilty and innocent authors. I would also like to hear of the strand which touch you most. Maybe you already spoke of it somewhere else. Maybe you don't have preferences.

Edited by deimya (06/03/08 06:27 AM)

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Re: What is the difference between science and philosophy? [Re: deimya]
    #8478624 -

something which doesn't come from a urge to explain at all cost. I'm sure you know both guilty and innocent authors. I would also like to hear of the strand which touch you most.

Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy. (Elbert Ellis)

IMO the only philosophical/spiritual problem for humans is neurotic behavior.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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