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Invisiblechodamunky
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Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
A fault of science
    #1486828 - 04/23/03 06:29 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I made this post originally in the Science and Technology section, where I should of made it here instead. Hopefully I can recieve more input from you spiritual and philosophical folks.

"It is the fault of our science that it wants to explain all; and if it explain not, then it says there is nothing to explain." - a quote from Bram Stoker's Dracula

I thought this was an excellent quote, both on the prejudice of science and its lacking in explanation of the human condition (things like emotions, consciousness, all that is considered tertiary, or not as important as the physical). Now don't get me wrong, science has done many great things for us, but if it wasn't for technologists, people who use science for practical purposes, then science would be like any other crazy theory of the universe. I mean c'mon, tiny little atoms whizzing around at near light speeds that make up the very chair you are sitting on! Blasphemy!  :grin: 

I also want to add that science has become some sort of exclusive membership club. There are only a handful of scientists in the world who can grapple with quantum mechanics, astrophysics, and the likes, because the average Joe scientist wanna be, will never get to witness a particle accelerator in action, yet alone understand how it works. Further still, to understand the basic structure of matter, one has to have years of mathematical study under their belts to fully understand and analyze these formulas that "govern our existence". Basically what I'm trying to get at, is that science is made out to be this religion, that all other experiences and knowledge is compared to, and if science can't explain it, then like the original quote states, "there is nothing to explain", or that it's not worth explaining. We need an understanding of the universe that is tangible to every human being on this earth, not the rhetoric of a few elite that tell us what our existence is, how it came to be, and how it will end.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: A fault of science [Re: chodamunky]
    #1486846 - 04/23/03 06:35 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)



--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleTeragon
Noddy

Registered: 02/21/01
Posts: 36,253
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Re: A fault of science [Re: chodamunky]
    #1486947 - 04/23/03 07:11 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

that all other experiences and knowledge is compared to, and if science can't explain it, then like the original quote states, "there is nothing to explain", or that it's not worth explaining.



I don't tend to agree with this and I wouldn't rely that much on a quote by Bram Stoker. It's not that science doesn't want to explain it or thinks its not worth it- it's just that science can't explain it- yet. Give it time it's not a simple process. Most of our science(or atleast the stuff you are referring to) is theory based on some evidence. It will take many years for that stuff to be clinically proven with repeated experiments- over and over.

Science doesn't control all- it's there because many people (or mankind if you like) want to know the reasons behind things. I am one of those people and if you really wanna know , then'll you'll learn all that intense math. Math is cool anyways, kinda. My three cents. :grin: 


--------------------
need that cash to feed them jones.


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Registered: 02/28/02
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Re: A fault of science [Re: Teragon]
    #1487290 - 04/23/03 09:24 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

if you really wanna know , then'll you'll learn all that intense math
Why does the revelation of truth require effort? If its "the truth", it should be obvious and easily understood. For example, many people on high doses of mushrooms feel they have experienced "the truth", all it took was a little sweeping away of  the filters culture has blinded us with and the truth is easily perceived. Whether there is ultimate truth or not, or if we all experience our own versions of truths is for another topic, my point is that at that instant when you feel your perception is clear, you understand anything and everything you want to understand, no effort of learning complex formulas because they are irrelevent. The desire to know what matter is made of in my opinion comes from the materialistic societies mankind has built around itself over hundreds of years.

I realize that I might be coming off as some anti-science freak but it's not really like that. I am grateful for the knowledge science has uncovered, otherwise I would probably never communicate with you on a Shroomery message board using a computer  :laugh: I just wanted  to put out these ideas because I feel understanding what it is to be human is primary, and understanding what a neutron star is,or something of the like, is a secondary goal, not the other way around which science promotes.


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OfflineLoverofEarth
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Re: A fault of science [Re: Teragon]
    #1487337 - 04/23/03 09:45 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

All can be explained and known. Let us thank science for liberating us from mystery.


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: A fault of science [Re: LoverofEarth]
    #1487420 - 04/23/03 10:23 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I haven't been liberated from mystery yet.. nor has anybody. And to be liberated from it implies that it imprisons us.. don't know about that. But then, I don't know what you're trying to say either.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: A fault of science [Re: chodamunky]
    #1487496 - 04/23/03 10:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

If we are products of this universe, then how better to understand ourselves than learn to understand what we came from?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineDrubuShrume
EAT ME - I'm afungi

Registered: 05/14/02
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Re: A fault of science [Re: chodamunky]
    #1487651 - 04/23/03 11:52 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)


Why does the revelation of truth require effort? If its "the truth", it should be obvious and easily understood. For example, many people on high doses of mushrooms feel they have experienced "the truth", all it took was a little sweeping away of the filters culture has blinded us with and the truth is easily perceived. Whether there is ultimate truth or not, or if we all experience our own versions of truths is for another topic, my point is that at that instant when you feel your perception is clear, you understand anything and everything you want to understand, no effort of learning complex formulas because they are irrelevent. The desire to know what matter is made of in my opinion comes from the materialistic societies mankind has built around itself over hundreds of years.


Why wouldn't the truth be difficult to find? Maybe science is just man looking to control its environment, while being somewhat in harmony with it.

The connectedness with nature given by shrooms may not be the truth anymore, because we cannot just erase society or turn it back 2000 years just by eating shrooms.
Maybe they give us the ideal world for a couple hours, or what could have been. When you come down off the trip, you still have to go to work and live a society-based life.
On boomers, I feel an intense love for every and all things, while at the same time I might feel blantantly uncompassionate.
The point of my reply is that I'm high and don't know what I'm talking about


--------------------
AH HA....


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OfflineLoverofEarth
spirit on ajourney

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Re: A fault of science [Re: Dogomush]
    #1488761 - 04/24/03 10:49 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Err, I was trying to be sarcastic. Mystery, the unknown, can never be stripped from us. But that seems to be the goal.


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Anonymous

Re: A fault of science [Re: chodamunky]
    #1488841 - 04/24/03 11:26 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I couldn't agree more.

And actually science itself is not a topic of science. It is a topic of philosophy. Most people do not realize that science cannot even define itself because its job is scientific investigation, not defining itself.

Science, or any empirical investigation, is but one tool in our toolkit that we have to understand our world.

Bravo for the thread!


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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Registered: 07/02/02
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Re: A fault of science [Re: chodamunky]
    #1489595 - 04/24/03 03:20 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Why does the revelation of truth require effort? If its "the truth", it should be obvious and easily understood. For example, many people on high doses of mushrooms feel they have experienced "the truth", all it took was a little sweeping away of the filters culture has blinded us with and the truth is easily perceived




I highly recommend you check out. my thread - What is the matrix?

Its all about:

Science, and how christians are technically agianst science
Dmt, Dmt elves
Clearing of the our everyday filters
Physics and all that stuff



--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
Re: A fault of science [Re: ]
    #1489698 - 04/24/03 03:56 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Science, or any empirical investigation, is but one tool in our toolkit that we have to understand our world.
Yes exactly  :smile: 

P.S. hey Mr. Mushrooms, can you plz check your PMs, I have sent you a burning question a few days back.


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Invisiblebuttonion
Calmly Watching

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: A fault of science [Re: ]
    #1491047 - 04/24/03 10:24 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Most people do not realize that science cannot even define itself because its job is scientific investigation, not defining itself.





Good point. It has proven itself useful... pragmatism... is that all truth is? Thanks for the thought nugget.


--------------------
Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein


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Anonymous

Re: A fault of science [Re: chodamunky]
    #1491384 - 04/25/03 12:29 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Hmmm I checked all the way back to April 9th and I saw nothing from you. I always answer my pms. Perhaps you need to resend it.

Cheers,


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Invisiblebuttonion
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Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: A fault of science [Re: ]
    #1491414 - 04/25/03 12:39 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Sorry, off topic.

Man, I really like your quote. To really feel that in my every waking moment is what I strive to do. To have that value underlying every action. It's hard.


--------------------
Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: A fault of science [Re: buttonion]
    #1491568 - 04/25/03 01:47 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Well, if you're having trouble living your life by those words try these, it's easy!

"Fuck it or kill it"
-the smartest man who ever lived


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Offlinethestringphish
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Registered: 04/17/03
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Re: A fault of science [Re: Dogomush]
    #1491594 - 04/25/03 01:54 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

is the "fuck it or kill it" Ken Wilber?


--------------------
Ken Wilbur

"this is life changing"

welcomehome


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OfflineDogomush
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Registered: 10/05/02
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Re: A fault of science [Re: thestringphish]
    #1491701 - 04/25/03 02:28 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Ken Wilber's that bald guy on that book cover who looks all serious right?? Ahahahaha

No, it's wisdom handed down from the ancients.


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
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Re: A fault of science [Re: Dogomush]
    #1491916 - 04/25/03 03:44 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

"the prejudice of science and its lacking in explanation of the human condition"

-it's really easy to criticize science when you personify it and treat it like a conscious being. Science is not alive. science is a man with a microscope looking at the universe and observing its behaviour, it does not pretend to have all the answers.....because it cannot "pretend" it isnt alive, its nothing...its just like art, a human activity. there is no unified "science". science has never done anything....humans have used scientific methods to do things, and they have been very successful, so obviously science has alot of merit. we can make robots....can you make robots through meditation? no.

science wins, you lose. you will all be replaced with robots.



--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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OfflineDogomush
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Registered: 10/05/02
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Re: A fault of science [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1492077 - 04/25/03 06:03 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I can't make them but I can become a robot through meditation... I just sit in front of my TV set and open my chakras.


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