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OfflineAxiom420
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Understanding Points of View
    #921363 - 09/30/02 11:55 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Shrooms are shrooms. If you eat them you'll trip out. Its that simple.

Why is it that people seem to think shrooms grant some grand transcendental view of the universe or awaken some primal a priori vision of human nature? Is it the "need to connect" to something greater?

There maybe correlation through abstraction. But the details are always different. How much can abstract correlation fulfill the need to connect? Guess you have to ignore the details.

Or suppose you're already "connected", you know it, and you believe it. What then? If you eat shrooms you just trip out. Its that simple. Shrooms are shrooms. You don't need to come up with a theory that explains everything as some kind of metaphor for tripping. Understand the relationships betweeen things but don't confuse one thing for another. Tripping is tripping. The tripping (a.k.a. "it") happened because you ate the mushrooms.

Any thoughts please....


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"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
- Albert Einstein


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: Axiom420]
    #921478 - 10/01/02 03:04 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

you seem to quote a lot from the bible... i would like you to take a look at this: Mushrooms in the Bible

as for my personal opinion... of course the shrooms don't provide the spiritual experience themselves... but they are a key to your subconcious... they snap you out of your normal point of you, and they make you look at everything differently... all the knowledge of the world is inside you, you just have to listen... so for many of us the shroom has (besides of making us 'trip out' as you call it) made us realize where we came from, providing an incomparable spiritual experience...


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Invisiblematts
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Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: In(di)go]
    #921538 - 10/01/02 04:08 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

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OfflineGrav
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Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: Axiom420]
    #921566 - 10/01/02 04:39 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I think they do hold a primal nature.
i think when you trip you experience timelessness.
at that time you are aware that your consciousness is that of a human's milleniums ago. all that's changed is technology and adaptation to that technology. the primal feelings are still there.
shrooms are my history lesson.



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OfflineCleverName
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Registered: 08/26/02
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Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: Grav]
    #921777 - 10/01/02 07:24 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

once when i was beshroomed i was looking in a full body mirror naked, and i saw myself de-evolutionize into an ape like creature with mad hair, and it looked as if i were morphing, it was pretty neat :grin: 


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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Offlinevaporbrains
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Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: CleverName]
    #921971 - 10/01/02 10:07 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

what are you saying exactly?

it seems that your statements amount to "when i trip i don't get any spiritual feelings so they must not exist." maybe you're just not the sharpest knife in the drawer.


--------------------
All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: Axiom420]
    #922167 - 10/01/02 11:37 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Why is it that people seem to think shrooms grant some grand transcendental view of the universe or awaken some primal a priori vision of human nature?

I hope you know that this line will only elicit emotional responses from affected parties.

I, too, have often wondered if there was a neural "switch" or pathway that gives one the sense that "the universe is one" or "the door to knowledge is now ajar" or "god is talking to me" or "the earth mother is imparting her wisdom to me"... of course, I'm just a cynical/skeptical bastard who is just ignoring the Truth?.

The reason I think is may be a switch and not just a metaresult of the swarms of neurotransmitter-mimics swirling about the synapses IS because there have been a few times where I experienced spectacular visuals (and "OBE's") but I didn't get the sense that I had unlocked the mysteries of the universe (keep in mind that I have experienced this sense with, roughly, 90% of all my trips- so I'm not just naysaying here).



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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: Sclorch]
    #922269 - 10/01/02 12:21 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

there have been a few times where I experienced spectacular visuals (and "OBE's")

WHAT?! OBE's?!?!?! are you insane?? those are impossible to have! those don't exist! science hasn't proven those!


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: ]
    #922351 - 10/01/02 12:50 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Ah... see what happens when I show you a glimpse of my hand?
I get sarcasm... could it be that maybe I show you only one side of me so as to keep doubt alive?

"Nah... that couldn't be... it's all or nothing... with us or against us... you can change, Sclorch, I still see a glimmer of hope!... You don't have to be a cynical skeptic... you can eventually become 'enlightened'..."

BAH!!!
_________________________

science hasn't proven those!
Science doesn't need to prove a subjective experience. When an objective statement about these experiences are made... THEN science comes into play.

I won't deny that I had an "OBE", but I can't claim that I was actually "out of my body". It may have been as simple as a self/other mapping shift... which, to me, is just as fascinating. I rule neither out completely, but I also don't parade one interpretation over the other.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: Sclorch]
    #922390 - 10/01/02 01:05 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Having an "OBE" doesn't  necessarily mean one believes it was real
every time you see some lizard or clown out of the corner of the eye, do you then believe that quick-disappearing lizards and clowns are following you around just to fuck with you? I sure don't.
your brain can play tricks on you, even elaborate, beautiful tricks that make you want to believe they're real.
intelligent people realize this, and don't assume that such unusual experiences are  what they percieve them to be.

I had an OBE too. good for me. I still don't feel a need to form some personal religion around an experience that can be questioned in numerous ways


p.s. I'm not really talking to  you, just ranting  :tongue:


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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



Edited by Albino_Jesus (10/01/02 01:06 PM)


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #922397 - 10/01/02 01:09 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Exactly.

Of course, we'll get no replies from here on out... because these points are too well-grounded to argue against. I might even be surprised if anyone even acknowledged them.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineCleverName
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Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: vaporbrains]
    #922409 - 10/01/02 01:15 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

where did you pull that from buddy?
many of the feelings you project onto others are a reflection of yourself.


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: Sclorch]
    #922416 - 10/01/02 01:18 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

In reply to:

It may have been as simple as a self/other mapping shift... which, to me, is just as fascinating.





YES. YES. YES. YES.
I would love to find out exactly what's going on in the brain when that is happening, not just which synapses are involved and such, but WHY those actions cause us to percieve things the way we do. i find that as interesting, if not more, than ideas people have come up with just from their experiences, rather than scientific investigation.
and I hate when people act like explaining things scientifically and demystifying experiences makes them less special, and deny materialistic explanations of things like feeling love, because "OMF IT'S SO SPIRITUAL AND MYSTICAL THERES NO WAY IT CAN COME FROM THE BRAIN!"
explaining love doesn't make it feel less nice.
explaining feelings and experiences while tripping doesn't make them less nice either.


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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Offlinevaporbrains
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Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #922633 - 10/01/02 02:31 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

The reason I think is may be a switch and not just a metaresult of the swarms of neurotransmitter-mimics swirling about the synapses IS because there have been a few times where I experienced spectacular visuals ....etc etc..

what do you mean by switch? perhaps you experience visuals when your occipital pathways/lobes are stimulated by neurtotransmitter agonist/antagonists and you experience "spiritual out of body whatever" when some other section of the brain/ pathway is stimulated?


--------------------
All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.


Edited by vaporbrains (10/01/02 02:31 PM)


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: vaporbrains]
    #922644 - 10/01/02 02:34 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

when some other section of the brain/ pathway is stimulated?

This is what I mean by a "switch".


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: Sclorch]
    #922821 - 10/01/02 03:37 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Funny how people don't believe things until they see it, but still don't think it's real until they look to someone else. I think there is reality between us and ourself, life is what connects these realities.  If you're trippin nuts, and see a green monkey jump on your lap, why did that happen? Is it because your brain is so hay wired, it decides to send monkey images AND the feeling to you? Riiight...I'd like to see a system error on my computer with use of graphics like that! what an imagination such a computer must have. Certainly YOU didn't say to yourself , "hey I'm trippin nuts so I'm gonna make a green monkey jump on my lap!". Therefore there must be an outside intelligence, whether its our higher self, God, or your dead grandma.
If you know how to use mushrooms correctly, you can basically 'tap into smarter intelligences', rather than seeing green monkeys.  :smile: 


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: ]
    #922828 - 10/01/02 03:42 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

are you implying that you can't hallucinate with more than one sense at a time?


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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Invisiblebuttonion
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Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: Axiom420]
    #922979 - 10/01/02 04:41 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

How much can abstract correlation fulfill the need to connect? Guess you have to ignore the details.

I?m not exactly sure what you are saying here, but if you show me a ?need to connect?, I will show you a ?need to be separate.?

I agree with one thing I think you are saying. That is, people come to shroom world with preconceptions that will color their experience, paradigms through which they will interpret. I don?t see how this can bee avoided. But this goes both ways. If I?m a hard core scientist-realist, then it is through this model that I will construe the experience. If I am a Buddhist-idealist, same thing.

You don't need to come up with a theory that explains everything as some kind of metaphor for tripping.

Everyone interprets the experience through some theory. The absence of some sort of implicit theory is called schizophrenia. Even the mainstream, default way of perceiving reality as actually, objectively chopped up into little pieces is a theory, you just have a consensus support. Question your assumptions!


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Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: buttonion]
    #923020 - 10/01/02 04:55 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

In reply to:

people come to shroom world with preconceptions that will color their experience, paradigms through which they will interpret. I don’t see how this can bee avoided. But this goes both ways. If I’m a hard core scientist-realist, then it is through this model that I will construe the experience. If I am a Buddhist-idealist, same thing.





if i could rate individual paragraphs, this one would get 5,000,000,000,000,000 shrooms.


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Understanding Points of View [Re: buttonion]
    #923195 - 10/01/02 06:00 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with one thing I think you are saying. That is, people come to shroom world with preconceptions that will color their experience, paradigms through which they will interpret. I don?t see how this can bee avoided. But this goes both ways. If I?m a hard core scientist-realist, then it is through this model that I will construe the experience. If I am a Buddhist-idealist, same thing.

Actually, my experience both agrees and disagrees...

I've experienced both agreement and disagreement for my current mindset (at any given point). I used to be hardcore "all-is-one" (ala Alan Watts) a few years ago (shit, just check out some of my older posts)... then I REALLY got into philosophy and identified with other things. I remember a few specific trips in which I came out a different person (especially my first trip- god, that was a mess).

So, although your paragraph applies much of the time... it is important to note that it is not the law. At least, not for me...


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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