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OfflineAdamist
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Registered: 11/23/01
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Re: Is Science a form of Mythology? [Re: diggitydankman]
    #1241948 - 01/23/03 05:13 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

science will never become myth because it is the basis of everything.


My intuition disagrees with this statement.


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Offlinediggitydankman
No longer aCannabisConnoisseur

Registered: 12/10/02
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Re: Is Science a form of Mythology? [Re: Adamist]
    #1241959 - 01/23/03 05:15 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe your intuition does, but all the facts don't. :smirk:  Maybe you should start listening to the facts. 


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"It's only wrong if you get caught.
If consequences dictate
my course of action
I should play GOD."

Maynard James Keenan, Tool

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Is Science a form of Mythology? [Re: diggitydankman]
    #1241969 - 01/23/03 05:18 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Spiritual science is the basis for everything. We only have it half figured out.
Loving logic is the nature of the universe. Not jut logic.


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OfflineAdamist
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Registered: 11/23/01
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Re: Is Science a form of Mythology? [Re: diggitydankman]
    #1241978 - 01/23/03 05:22 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Maybe you should start listening to the facts.



I do. But that's not the ONLY thing I listen to.  :wink: 


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Offlinediggitydankman
No longer aCannabisConnoisseur

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Last seen: 21 years, 5 days
Re: Is Science a form of Mythology? [Re: Adamist]
    #1242033 - 01/23/03 05:41 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Well before we continue discussing this, I'd like to say that I'm glad to have found an insightful and thought provoking section to this community. At first I was skeptical of a bunch of people who sit around and use drugs (if you visit some of the forums you'll know what I mean) as having any knowledge for discussing relevant topics other than "should I take these pills I found." Thank you for opening my mind and having an open community to discuss these topics.

Adamist, what other sort of things are possible to listen to other than facts. I believe that humans as a species are horribly misguided in their use of their brains. Who is to say that our brains are not more sophisticated than we think and all of our intuitions are simply decisions made subconsciously using previous facts.


--------------------
"It's only wrong if you get caught.
If consequences dictate
my course of action
I should play GOD."

Maynard James Keenan, Tool

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InvisibleSclorch
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Posts: 4,805
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Re: Is Science a form of Mythology? [Re: Adamist]
    #1242099 - 01/23/03 06:01 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Quote Sclorch:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
your fantasies aren't real in the objective sense.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adamist: And science is?
You're typing on a computer right now aren't you?

Quote Sclorch:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So go on... bash science
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adamist: Who's bashing science?? Not me.
Science is not mythological in any way, shape, or form.
It's sloppy thinking/judgement to think that it is.

Adamist: Could science possibly be replaced with some other system of looking at reality? Could the system of science then be viewed upon as a primitive system (like mythology) that attempt to explain things that CANNOT be measured?

In a word, NO. Science is just a methodology. As a methodology, it is adaptable... it WILL stand the test of time. The institution of science is constantly changing. The current snapshot of that institution will no doubt one day be seen as primitive, but not science itself.

Adamist: The laws which have supposedly governed science are just like that of mythology in that they can be disproven and revolve around some rather un-absolute principles.
When science uses the word "Law", it is understood that this "law" is fallible.
There are no laws that govern science... only the scientific METHOD.
I don't remember there ever being a method to ANY mythological madness...


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Is Science a form of Mythology? [Re: Adamist]
    #1242248 - 01/23/03 06:59 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Look, people, it's all about SYSTEMS OF THOUGHT! I direct you to the words of johann Jocob Bachofen...

"Multiform and shifting in its outward manifestation, myth nevertheless follows fixed laws. Product of a cultural period in which life had not yet broken away from the harmony of nature it shares with nature that unconscious lawfullness which is always lacking in the works of free reflection. Everywhere there is system, everywhere cohesion; in every detail the expression of a great fundamental law whose abundant manifestations demonstrate its inner truth and natural necessity."

Trade the word "myth" for the word "science" and the description still fits the SYSTEM OF THOUGHT. Either way is a perfectly acceptable method of ordering the Universe... Myth orders it according to Intuition, Emotion and Spirit. Science orders it through Logic, Reason and Intellection.

Your battles are all semantic. Both views are valid.


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Is Science a form of Mythology? [Re: Adamist]
    #1242278 - 01/23/03 07:09 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

You might find this difficult to believe, but... skepticism is boring.

No, seriously. 




Seriously?  Skepticism isn't boring.  It is refreshing and necessary.

What's boring is anger, intolerance, ignorance and fear of the unknown.

Unfortuneatly, the two are practically joined at the hip on this forum.  It would be nice to see some true skepticism here, a skepticism devoid of bitterness and judgement.

I live in hope.  :smirk: 


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OfflineSnuffelzFurever
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Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 734
Loc: Miami, florida
Last seen: 20 years, 2 months
Re: Is Science a form of Mythology? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1242301 - 01/23/03 07:16 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

just because science is not myth does not mean that we know everything about science. we are not flawless in our formulas and our notions of physics. we might be very wrong. chances are, we are very wrong. we have been wrong, and we will continue to be wrong, and we will adapt what we know to what we see.


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"I think it's time we stop
Children, What's the sound,
Everybody look what's going down"

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Is Science a form of Mythology? [Re: SnuffelzFurever]
    #1242429 - 01/23/03 08:15 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

just because science is not myth does not mean that we know everything about science. we are not flawless in our formulas and our notions of physics. we might be very wrong. chances are, we are very wrong. we have been wrong, and we will continue to be wrong, and we will adapt what we know to what we see.

No doubt.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Is Science a form of Mythology? [Re: diggitydankman]
    #1242579 - 01/23/03 09:27 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I'd like to say that I'm glad to have found an insightful and thought provoking section to this community. Thank you for opening my mind and having an open community to discuss these topics.



You are welcome! :smile:
I enjoy discussing ideas and opinions so that I can question what I think and evolve, as I'm sure everyone here does.


Quote:

Adamist, what other sort of things are possible to listen to other than facts. Who is to say that our brains are not more sophisticated than we think and all of our intuitions are simply decisions made subconsciously using previous facts.


I like that idea... But what about vision and imagination? Those certainly play a part in evolution.   


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Is Science a form of Mythology? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1242594 - 01/23/03 09:34 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

You're typing on a computer right now aren't you?



Technology is created using science as a tool, but that doesn't mean science created technology.
We did.


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Anonymous

Re: Is Science a form of Mythology? [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1243214 - 01/23/03 01:21 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

It would be nice to see some true skepticism here, a skepticism devoid of bitterness and judgement.

There is plenty of it for those who can see.  I am the skeptical believer. :smile:

I trust you have seen no judgment or bitterness from me.

Going back the the thing I was going to post about Edith Hamilton here is a quote from her book called, Mythology:

"Greek mythology is largely made up of stories about gods and goddesses, but it must not be read as a kind of Greek Bible, an account of Greek Religion.  According to the most modern idea, a real myth has nothing to do with religion.  It is an explanation of something in nature; how, for instance, any and everything in the universe came into existence: man, animals, this or that tree or flower, the sun, the moon, the stars, storms, eruptions, earthquakes, all that is and all that happens.  Thunder and lightening are caused when Zeus hurls His thunderbolt.  A volcano erupts because a terrible creature is imprisoned in the mountain and every now and then struggles to get free.  The Dipper, the constellation called also the Great Bear, does not set below the horizon because a goddess once was angry at it and decreed that it should never sink into the sea.  Myths are early science, the result of men's first trying to explain what they saw around them."

Today there are certain sections of science that are myth-like.  These arise from a number of reasons, one of which is poor science, another is improper or junk science.  Theoretical physics would be in the latter category and evolution would be in the former.  In the former case scientists tried to step outside the limits of their knowledge philosophically and so ran aground.  In the latter case, born of hubris, scientists rely on Hobbesian delimited paradigms thinking that investigation sans teleological concerns are enough to provide steady answers.  In both cases they are wrong.

Tomorrow's reading assignment is posted on the bulletin board so I needn't bring that up during class.  I should have your test results finished at that time.

Class dismissed. 

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