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 mirrorsaw
journeyman
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 Is Islam a tolerant religion? 
#814016 - 08/13/02 01:04 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Is Islam a tolerant religion?
NO
Yes
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 In(di)go
People of the sun.
 
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: mirrorsaw]
#814042 - 08/13/02 02:11 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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actually all religions are intolerant from my point of view... religion should be forbidden... it stops the thinking process inside every individual, providing "answers" that are not only wrong most of the time, but take away the love and embeb fear in the hearts of those who take those answers... therefore transforming them into slaves... everyone should be able to find out his own truth about god... and not simply rund around blinded accepting someone else's take on everything...
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chodamunky
Cheers!
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: In(di)go]
#814801 - 08/13/02 09:55 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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I very much agree with what you said. The religious authority promotes only its own version of reality to the masses in order to give them a false sense comfort and security. People need to forge their own path and not take the road map given to them by a religious authority.
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Anonymous
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: chodamunky]
#814808 - 08/13/02 09:58 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Good words
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mirrorsaw
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: chodamunky]
#814866 - 08/13/02 10:24 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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The religious authority promotes only its own version of reality to the masses
Sometimes yes, but this is a crude generalization imo.
in order to give them a false sense of comfort and security
I don't believe people would dedicate their lives to a religious cause, just to delude other people or give them a false sense of comfort.
People need to forge their own path and not take the road map given to them by a religious authority
perhaps for some people it is better that they are not a part of organized religion. With others, maybe they could get lost along the way without it?
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Zahid
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: mirrorsaw]
#815120 - 08/13/02 12:37 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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None of the faiths of Abraham are tolerant to pagan beliefs because this is a great sin in the eyes of God.
But when you compare the three faiths, Islam is the most tolerant considering it accepts Christianity, and Judaism as valid faiths.
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Phred
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: Zahid]
#815256 - 08/13/02 01:44 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Of the three Abrahamic faiths, Islam is the only one which demands death as the penalty for apostasy.
That could becalled tolerance, I suppose -- ZERO tolerance.
pinky
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BOBs
bobby digital
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: Phred]
#815327 - 08/13/02 02:11 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's also one of the only religions to strongly encourage holy war (Jihad) against all infidels.
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mntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: mirrorsaw]
#815660 - 08/13/02 04:36 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Karen Armstrong tells us in her book The History of God that in the early days of Islam the three (Christians, Jews, Islan) all had the same God and different prophets. In the begining they were the most tolerant out of the three.This is why you hear experts on the Islamic religion saying that the form of Islkan taught today is not true Islam but a perverted version. The prophet Mohamed taught tolerance and respect for life.
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Be all and you'll be to end all
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Zahid
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: mntlfngrs]
#815738 - 08/13/02 05:13 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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BOBs, Islam does not teach its followers to wage war on infidels. Islam does teach, that it is permissible to fight against those who fight you. If a foreign army invaded your land, you would fight back.
mntlfngrs wrote,
Karen Armstrong tells us in her book The History of God that in the early days of Islam the three (Christians, Jews, Islan) all had the same God and different prophets. In the begining they were the most tolerant out of the three.This is why you hear experts on the Islamic religion saying that the form of Islkan taught today is not true Islam but a perverted version. The prophet Mohamed taught tolerance and respect for life.
"Experts on the Islamic religion"? Some kufr who studies the religion briefly? I'm sorry, but are you implying Karen Armstrong and these "experts" know more about Islam than people who have been followers of the faith all their lives, have memorized the entire Qur'an and and nearly all of the authentic hadiths? Give me a source, an essay or something by one of these "Islam experts". You're clearly talking out of your ass.
Yes, Muhammad taught tolerance and respect for life, and nearly all Muslims practice this as well (except those of the fundamentalist brand). You can label all you want, the only Muslims you know of by name or face are the ones who kill innocent people in the name of Islam. You don't know anything about the people in this culture that consists of 20% of the world's population
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mntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: Zahid]
#815783 - 08/13/02 05:32 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Try the source I gave you. Karen Armstrong is verymuch an expert on many religions. Read her book! What do you know of Islam? Sure some of the other experts I was talking about are talking heads on the TV (I'm sure you have seen the ones if you follow the news) but are you claiming to know more than them? Do you think that the money/government controlled media put them up to saying that? Of course not because that is not what they wanted. The power=s that be wanted war and fostering an understanding that truie Islam doesn't exactly work tward that end. You said it yourself. Muhammad taught tolerance and respect for life, and nearly all Muslims practice this as well (except those of the fundamentalist brand). . And the same goes for all the religions untill fundamentalist get ahold of it.
My point is that true ISLAM is tolerant, whats yours?
What Muslims do you know? What are they like?
And the followers? The majority are following someone who tells them how to interperate the Qur'an. So it is not the followers who are realy to blame. Government corrupt ISLAM for the purpose of power.
Read the book then tell me that Karen Armstrom doesn't know what she is talking about.
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Be all and you'll be to end all
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mirrorsaw
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: Zahid]
#816526 - 08/14/02 01:17 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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None of the faiths of Abraham are tolerant to pagan beliefs because this is a great sin in the eyes of God. But when you compare the three faiths, Islam is the most tolerant considering it accepts Christianity, and Judaism as valid faiths.
Didn't mohammed also accept sabianism and Zoroastrianism were 'true' religions?
What about Hinduism?
There is a pantheon of Gods, but it was the worlds first monothestic religion. You can hardly describe them as pagans.
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postalboy
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: Phred]
#816666 - 08/14/02 03:52 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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pinky I think you are fast becoming a great member of this little group.
Of the three Abrahamic faiths, Islam is the only one which demands death as the penalty for apostasy.
Thats what I call a shoot. Shoot being a slang term for "telling it like it is." Here is another shoot.
I agree with Lozt Souls. Most specific religions are intolerant of other religions. you only have to watch the news for 10 minutes to see that. The prots and caths in Ireland, Israel and Pakistan, Afganistan, all are based on religious persecution of one group by another group. "You don't believe in my god so I will kill you." It is all religious bullshit. And I have only spoken with 1 muslem in my life and he isn't doing the rest of that religion any favors. And don't give me that shit about defending your country when it is invaded. We gave the ghani's their weapoons and training to fight the russians. Then they fly planes into buildings, killing innocent commuters just to make a statement about our country. That is not defense. that is a crusade. Crusades are the by-product of strict intolerant religions.
And before zaph gets his panties in a bunch, I am not leaving out the christian religion who massacred any who didn't believe. From the moorish crusades to the decimation and subjugation of the natives of this continent. Religion and man's insistance that his and only his religion is correct is the cause of all these deaths. I am positive there are many many more examples but I'm to pissed off to write anymore. Fuck organized religion, follow your heart and quit killing other people because they worship this book instead of that book. FUCK!!!!!!
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"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.
Edited by postalboy (08/14/02 03:53 AM)
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Mystical_Craven
mentally illpsychonaught
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: postalboy]
#816714 - 08/14/02 04:12 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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In reply to:
I am positive there are many many more examples but I'm to pissed off to write anymore. Fuck organized religion, follow your heart and quit killing other people because they worship this book instead of that book. FUCK!!!!!!
Sounds like someone's getting ready to go postal.
(sorry, couldn't help myself...and lame as it may be, if I didn't say it someone else would have)
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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot
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chodamunky
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: mirrorsaw]
#818054 - 08/15/02 12:22 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't believe people would dedicate their lives to a religious cause, just to delude other people or give them a false sense of comfort.
1) That is very naive of you to say. People want/need religious comfort and security and will believe what the authority says. Haven't you ever seen those shows where the hyper religious dude is healing people infront of a large crowd and doing all his preaching? He dedicated his life to deluding people and giving them false hopes of healing and comfort while making money off them.
2) The deluded become the deluders.
perhaps for some people it is better that they are not a part of organized religion. With others, maybe they could get lost along the way without it?
How would people be lost without guidance of organized religion?
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Traveller
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: postalboy]
#818913 - 08/15/02 09:08 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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i don't think the people flying those planes were afghans, osama bin laden is from saudi arabia and he was trained by the CIA, apparently. afghanistan is a dirt poor country that couldn't afford to train a sophisticated terrorist organisation....
Islam does not demand death for anything any more than christianity demands the sacrifice of goats. there is a whole section of the old testament on dealing with slaves.
religion is not the cause of all these wars and deaths. human selfishness, greed, anger, pride, jealousy....IGNORANCE, is the cause. the same emotions behind all the war and violence and shit going on everywhere can be read in many of the posts in this forum, or in little arguments among friends, family, strangers....
what are we going to do about it? throw our hands up and say fuck organised religion? fuck the government? fuck the police? no nukes one love? fuck abortion? aren't all of these problems just the superficial signs of the deeper problems within each of us?
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mirror_saw
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: chodamunky]
#819264 - 08/16/02 02:44 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Haven't you ever seen those shows where the hyper religious dude is healing people infront of a large crowd and doing all his preaching? He dedicated his life to deluding people and giving them false hopes of healing and comfort while making money off them
There was some ambiguity in my sentence, when I said that I didn't believe people would dedicate their lives to a religious cause just to delude others, I was thinking of people whose motivation was religious, there could of course be some people whose motivation is fraud.
I am aware that that goes on, but you are talking about a very small number of people as compared to the millions who support organized religion's worldwide.
There is a question of whether or not those kinds of "healers" are in any way spiritually motivated. It could be that they are only interested in making money for themselves. I can't rule out the possibility that some may genuinely believe that their cause is for the good of God. Whatever their motivation, their theatrical form of spiritual healing can certainly cause suffering by giving people false hope of a cure.
Most rabbi's, priest's and Buddhist monks etc. are very far from being rich and I don't think they try and delude others or give them a false sense of comfort.
It's not clear if your suggesting that they deliberately try and delude others, or if your saying they unintentionally spread their own delusion. If your saying it's unintentional then it comes down to what beliefs you consider to be right and wrong.
People want/need religious comfort and security and will believe what the authority says
I believe that people (or most people) are inherently spiritual. It is another thing to say that they will unquestioningly believe what a clerical authority tells them. You have half a dozen major world religions and God knows how many sects and cults to choose from. Rather than having authority dictate and spoon feed "truth" to the people, in the world today you are almost spoilt for choice.
Also, clerics will tell you what are the orthodox beliefs of any given religion, but if you happen to disagree with some of them it's not a problem unless you make it a problem. You may not believe that the faith you belong to is perfect, you may not believe every doctrine that it has, but you may still be able to benefit yourself and others by being a part of it.
In practice, strict adherence to doctrine is not normally forced on people. It would be very difficult even if you wanted to. There are probably a fair few Catholics who don't actually believe in the literal meaning of the virgin birth, I don't know of any attempts to expose them and force them out.
How would people be lost without guidance of organized religion?
I believe that people can benefit from being part of a religious community. I would never say it was necessary, just that it does help many people.
It may be that you believe that such people are unable to think for themselves, and are being deluded and exploited as a result. If you think that then fair enough. But as I said, I believe that to be a generalization that for the most part isn't true.
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Anonymous
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: mirrorsaw]
#820031 - 08/16/02 08:42 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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What's so great about tolerance?
I have many things that I do not tolerate.
Rude people.
Ignorant People.
Lazy people.
Abusive people.
Cars that ride my butt when I am driving.
People that come into my house without my permission.
People that are so PC aware they are no good for themselves or others.
Et cetera et cetera, and of course et cetera.
I see intolerance as a virtue, not a vice.
Cheers,
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Anonymous
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: ]
#820412 - 08/16/02 10:22 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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I like your response Mr Mushrooms 
Edited by Evolving (08/16/02 10:23 AM)
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Phred
Fred's son
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Re: Is Islam a tolerant religion? [Re: Traveller]
#820984 - 08/16/02 12:57 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Traveller writes:
Islam does not demand death for anything...
Except apostasy.
religion is not the cause of all these wars and deaths.
Not ALL, no. But organized religion has been responsible for countless wars and deaths. Not all, to be sure -- nationalism, tribalism, and plain old powerlust are responsible for nearly all the remaining wars.
...IGNORANCE, is the cause.
Rarely. In almost every case of war for conquest, the initiators knew exactly what they were doing, and why they were doing it.
what are we going to do about it? throw our hands up and say fuck organised religion?
It would be a good start, yes.
aren't all of these problems just the superficial signs of the deeper problems within each of us?
Speak for yourself. I have never initiated violence against another individual (except possibly when I was an infant), and I doubt I ever will.
pinky
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