Home | Community | Message Board

Original Seeds Store
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Blending religions & philosophies
    #5904488 - 07/27/06 06:31 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I see it alot in how people adopting different religions and trying to incorporate them in one view. I've done it myself but this seems to not make any sense IMO

I can see incorporating ideas that have been past down from history. Then trying to develop and evolve a new aged prospective, but really I don't think all prospectives feed off one another. At some point you'll have to denounce your oath to that prospective as you incorporate a new one,

case in point, Buddhism believes one thing, Christianity believes in another, agnosticism believes in one thing, atheism believes in another, there not congruent with one another

Christianity has a different twist on karma and reincarnation, also salvation doesn't rely on moral code, but simply believing in Jesus Christ,

Buddhism is an older religion, and Siddhartha had no contact or was influenced by the 'historical Jesus'

Also Jesus if you look at it clear, did not give an option towards being by partial. You either have to make the choice, was he nut case, or was he the son of man, some people try to change the doctrine and say he didn't say what he said, or what he proclaimed what he proclaimed, if that was true, I don't think the message would've caught on widespread, what do you think?

and obviously Jews to this day don't see Jesus as the son of god, they took the former as him being a nut case. I regress a little and say some do acknowledge him as the son of god, but most don't. They have a little different twist to their own doctrine, and sense they were the first ones to be monotheistic, over say us gentiles, they saw the prophecy in the old testament as referring to somebody else.

So Judaism isn't congruent with Christianity either, I don't know why Christian based America has this never ending support for modern Israel. Jews are descendants of Judah, the son of perdition, and so look at history at what the rewards of a traitor nation are, but anyways..

I don't see some of the connections that some people are trying to make, and the list of examples goes on

-Wicca towards Christianity
-Buddha towards Hinduism, Buddha roots are in Hindu mythology, are you to accept 330 million gods, but really Buddha denounces this

I think some do flow better such as

-Tao and the concept of self realization
-Mormons and Wicca, LOL
-Aborigine cultures and native American cultures view on spirits

but really I think you have to put some things in order, to make some sense, you really can't incorporate everything,

this is where science and philosophy can play apart, to rectify some of the disagreements between each philosophy or religion,

but its not really a pick and choose thing, IMO, even I have my skepticism on just pure self realization, this ultimately leads to man dictating what truth is, which if you really look at it, we could find justification for anything sense we denounce any absolute truths,

well this is just wood for the fire, I'm wondering everyone elses spin on this.......


Edited by capliberty (07/27/06 06:52 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: capliberty]
    #5904545 - 07/27/06 07:29 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i think youre forgetting that the people who try to see buddhism and christianity as compatable are generally not the ones who follow an orthodox interpretation of christianity. i personally would have to struggle in order to find ways in which these two religions are not compatable.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: Deviate]
    #5904611 - 07/27/06 08:29 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think you have to acknowledge Christianity and the Bible more than a book of metaphorical quotes,

I don't think the authors intended the Bible to be looked at this way

but maybe Buddhism and Christianity are more compatible,

although their are some clear distinct differences in views:

Christian acknowledge god and having a relationship with god and accepting Christ is the only way to be pardoned for your sins,

Buddha doesn't acknowledge any god, but acknowledges self awareness of suffering in which such a path leads to nirvana

Christians don't acknowledge reincarnation and rebirth, but look at our being as constant, in which we as individuals are judged when we die, and either go to heaven, hell or hades

Maybe some similarities is karma and reaping what you sow, as moral code can dictate ones quality of life, but Christians don't believe in before life karma, that you maybe reaping a judgment of before life occurrences,

Also wise action doesn't necessarily dictate salvation in the Christian view,


Edited by capliberty (07/27/06 11:07 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: capliberty]
    #5904629 - 07/27/06 08:40 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Christianity was really designed to be a religion for the entire world, and I think because of that it suffers from lack of depth, and perhaps some of the views of Jesus were slanted or even altered.

For instance, no past life karma? How is this possible? This means that you are predestined to go to heaven or hell and have no choice. For if you are born in Lebanon as a muslim, well look what Israel is doing to..... oops you died, God says "tough break dude... you shouldn't have been born a Muslim in Lebanon...... down to hell with you!"

how did we get where we ARE?

But...... the concept of Jesus as an enlightened sacrifice, sort of a medium willing to give the holy spirit (aka chi, energy body, chakra activation, etc) to anyone who would seek it out in his "Name"...... the concept of Jesus as an elightened master, and therefore the SUN of man, a beacon, a direct medium, a boddhisattva..... a SUN of GOD and the "son" of God... yea.

but I think they spiced it up with a bit too much dogma and utter simplicity, to try and get the masses following something.

the gnostic Jesus fits well with Buddhism. The orthodox one doesn't. It's a pickle really because rebirth almost has to exist, otherwise for people living in America, Jesus is the only way to be saved, but for people living in Israel, Judaism is the only way to be saved.... and for people living in other places, Islam is the only way to be saved.

and this creates quite a tricky siutation, where one is not able to use their rational discretion to pick the RIGHT path (i.e. Christ being the right path?) because they are forced to simply stay in the faith they were born in.... because all faiths tend to insist upon their infallibility, at the exclusion of all other faiths.

this means that "God" has the religions set up where one is very unlikely to stray from Islam to Christianity... Christianity to Islam..... and vice versa..... leaving man at the whims of his social upbringing entirely, which seems to denote heavy predestination to me if there is only one path.

furthermore why cannot Jesus be a sacrifice for every single man, regardless of his faith....... if you loved the world enough to do that to your son, might you not just go the extra notch and use it as a universal pardon? In this way people may go through many religions, but still attain a cyclical sense of eternal life until they choose to submit to whatever the highest reality is.

When I look at the gruesome depictions of hell I can't take the Bible very seriously, these authors are sadists! millions of people have been killed because of the Christian God.... virtually none have been killed in the name of Satan. And that makes you wonder lol!

but Christ is Christ, as a teacher, as a gnostic..... as someone whose words were tainted by the impurities of men? Sure..... that is agreeable to me.

oh and the Bible says that you have to go within. It advocates activation of the third eye and utilization of the light body in Luke, and it's said something akin to damn the pharisees for blocking people's access to the Kingdom of Heaven, for they are not taught to go within.

so even people saying "gnosticism is heresy" well, look at that right there, isn't that kind of a gnostic approach to heaven?


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (07/27/06 08:42 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: capliberty]
    #5904652 - 07/27/06 08:56 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Have you ever read the Gospel of Thomas? Everything Jesus says in that gospel could just as easily come from the Buddha. The fact is that there has always been a mystical tradition within each major world religion, and that the mystics of each religion have a lot more in common than the followers of the exoteric forms of those religions.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: Silversoul]
    #5904765 - 07/27/06 09:49 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

In my understanding, on the global view it doesn't make any sense, yeah if you didn't know about Jesus then you go to straight to hell, I don't know if true Christians see it this way though,

Do you mean esoteric, I think some of the literal believers dismiss the Gospel of Thomas as being authentic, most literal believers look simply at the occurrence of Christ, and they don't acknowledge scholar views that Christ didn't say what the Gospels said he said, and I tend to agree with the believers on this one, I'm mean who would have more of a recollection of what Jesus said, the witnesses that were there, who wrote the Gospels or some college scholars who are 2000 years removed from any eye witness occurrences of Jesus, besides I don't think if their wasn't some cage rattling, that Christianity wouldn't have that much influence, I think the bible is pretty explicit when it comes to Jesus and their views on god,


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekotik
fuckingsuperhero
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 4 years, 24 days
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: capliberty]
    #5904794 - 07/27/06 09:59 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

to my understanding, Western and Eastern "religions" are not only incompatible, but polar opposites.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: capliberty]
    #5905038 - 07/27/06 11:28 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

capliberty said:
In my understanding, on the global view it doesn't make any sense, yeah if you didn't know about Jesus then you go to straight to hell, I don't know if true Christians see it this way though,

Do you mean esoteric, I think some of the literal believers dismiss the Gospel of Thomas as being authentic, most literal believers look simply at the occurrence of Christ, and they don't acknowledge scholar views that Christ didn't say what the Gospels said he said, and I tend to agree with the believers on this one, I'm mean who would have more of a recollection of what Jesus said, the witnesses that were there, who wrote the Gospels or some college scholars who are 2000 years removed from any eye witness occurrences of Jesus, besides I don't think if their wasn't some cage rattling, that Christianity wouldn't have that much influence, I think the bible is pretty explicit when it comes to Jesus and their views on god,



That's your problem: You only looking at exoteric Christianity, but esoteric Christianity is what I'm talking about. At the esoteric level, there is very little difference between each world religion.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: Silversoul]
    #5905199 - 07/27/06 12:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Well I'm still not seeing the connection that your trying to make, other than trying to take the Bible out of its context,

even in the Gospel of Thomas that your referred, Jesus refers to a parable, about the wise fisherman throwing his net out to sea, and when he brings it in, they deciphered from small fish, and the big fish, and easily choose the big fish, any those wise should listen, choose the big fish,

to me this referring to prioritizing your views, not to get hung up on the small fish, but discard them, but get to meat by choosing the big fish,

All I'm doing is taking the word or the faith for what its telling me, This is why Jesus was performing miracles and also being resurrected from the dead, he was building a faith by doing all this, why do you think people believe, and how the religion spread, in their own minds they logically deducted that Jesus was more than a prophet but the son of God, according historical prospective, there were 500 eye witnesses of his resurrection, I don't know how else you can interpret it, or what else its trying to say

and its obvious other people don't share this view, I don't know how you can make a connection to something like this and something like Buddhism or anything else, for that matter, the Bible was never intended to be token as some self-help guide, but proclaims a certain faith,



Quote:


When I look at the gruesome depictions of hell I can't take the Bible very seriously, these authors are sadists! millions of people have been killed because of the Christian God.... virtually none have been killed in the name of Satan. And that makes you wonder lol!





I got a good glimpse or idea of what hell was, from my own personal prospective, the truth may not always be a nice fuzzy beautiful thing, but can be gruesome and horrifying, I wouldn't necessarily call these authors sadist, but maybe realists, from my prospective, as far as them killing in the name of the Christian god, the ten commandments includes thou shall not kill, I don't think you can say they were following doctrine

and this is one example I'm making a comparison with, its not that I'm sticking up for this, I'm just failing to see its compatibility,

other examples are:

or Jews and Christians

or Jainism and Christians,

or Satanism and say Islam, maybe huh

but I just don't see some of these connections,


Edited by capliberty (07/27/06 12:54 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: capliberty]
    #5905251 - 07/27/06 12:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"o me this is reason why I kind of entertain this faith, before I kinda didn't want to see 'hell' myself and I wasn't religious at all, I got a good glimpse or idea of what hell was, from my own personal prospective, the truth may not always be a nice fuzzy beautiful thing, but can be gruesome and horrifying, I wouldn't necessarily call these authors sadist, but maybe realists, from my prospective, as far as them killing in the name of the Christian god, the ten commandments includes thou shall not kill, I don't think you can say they were following doctrine"

are you a Christian capliberty? anyway, huge portions of the Bible completely and totally justify killing if you are doing it for God. Some of his chosen people have killed hundreds of thousands. It is said not to suffer a "wtich" to live. Jesus says he comes not to bring peace but a sword. [though, to me he is speaking in clear metaphor, i suppose it could be misconstrued, this is not the best example]

If you left all that junk out and just said like the Buddhists did, that killing is never acceptable... WHERE would you be able to justify murder? it's clear cut as day in Buddhism, do not kill.... do not join armies. if you do, do it out of compassion and never hate.

Sure Jesus says to turn the other cheek, but this is in direct contradiction to many other, older Biblical passages. And yes, Jesus says that he is overturning such teachings, to love your enemy..... but don't you see where Jesus says this in? in THE HOLY BIBLE.

its very very easy to see why, especially in the more illiterate ages, people could easily be led by the Bible, even believing in the teachings of Christ, to wage ungodly wars, inquisitions, tortures, persecutions.......

even now there are plenty of Christians in the army. It's not necessarily a bad faith if you interpret it the way that involves listening to Jesus, but to me it's a rather bad book.

hell? Hell may be very real, but how is something so cruel as unbeleif going to land you there forever? Hell is a mistranslation of a common burial place where the fires of crematoin were always (eternally) burning, and Jesus said if you don't want to end up there (which is now simply called hell, a metaphysical place, but he was referring to the grave) then you had better do such and such to attain eternal life.

But the thing is, he said many who followed him would not taste of death, and that Kingdom is HERE....... so it's not like you believe lazily in Jesus then go about engaging in the real world, it's more like how the gnostics have it, you really seek Jesus out until you are completely transformed in the holy spirit.

your eye is single and you are made of light like in Luke... you go inward.

so to me hell is just, well you wasted this life, now you're dead, now what? not some sort of crazy-assed authoritarian despotic condemnation.

i think the authors went a little control crazy if you ask me.

the pharisees are very heavily chastised for blocking people from finding Heaven by going inward.... this is what all the Christians churches up to this day do...... they teach a lot of really false things too IMO...... all the notions about sex being evil... Jesus hardly talked about it. He said, don't lust after a woman, because it's the same as sleeping with her, and that's great advice. It doesn't mean to have a huge taboo on sexuality.....

sexual repression is a good method of control. teaching people to follow a circular dogma that does NOT lead them to salvation, while calling meditators and gnostics "heretics" is a good way to control. blocking access to the spirit is a good way to control.

i do not see how simple belief in an abstract concept will unify you with it. I think follow Christ actually really requirse a lot, and that it will bear very tangible fruit along the way. And I think for most people Christ is more of a superstition to keep them in line, then a way to truely set their souls free.

but i think Christ can, whether metaphorically or if he is still a tangible spirit presence working on fixing the hearts of men. I think though the gnostic approach is all around a better one.

plus the religion has mainly spread through force and coercion. it's like, one way of living is capitalism, and another way is tribal living off the land. both have their merits, but to assume that because we killed off the Native Americans and spread our capitalist ways around the globe, tribal living is WRONG, is an incorrect assumption.

i would be interested in the 500 witnesses of resurection though, because as far as historical evidence denotes, I've heard there are not any particular verifiable accounts. so if you can find something about that it would be cool.

the other side though is that if you initiate people to encounter their deeply hidden fears of death, then promise them, no matter how terrible they are terrified during the hell-sermon, that they will escape these torments and live forever.... it's kind of a shadow integration, and Jesus is "stored" in your brain in the same place extreme guilt and terror is.... so that when you do die if you freak out, the concept of Jesus will be buried there and... this could be how it works, and why "hell" is preached the way it is.

the other side too is just that, you actually don't catch more flies with honey... if you say "everything is going to be alright, Jesus loves you" how many people are going to be zealots for your cuase? But if you go in and break them down and warp their minds with hell doctrine, boy howdy they will follow you, oterhwise they could go to hell if they don't!

so it depends. I see how it works, as a pacifier for death by staring down your shadow, then being completely assured that you are now "saved"

but to me, I felt the least saved ever after going through those hell sermons. I had tons of faith until they got to me... then I felt like no matter what I did I wasn't really saved, even though I really did believe in Jesus... when before it was not a concern of mine at all.
well it's a catch 22, like how they say "make up sex" is best because extreme emotions jump to other extreme emotoins quickly. it was the only time i felt unconditional love from Jesus after praying for my salvation and being told I was now free.....

but it dissipated and let me with doubt, because they kept tearing back into those holes... guilty, guilty, we're all guiltly..... hell is mostly full of liars, not murderers... so many normal people. 40 years is just a fraction of a second of eternity... never ending pain. no one is safe. guilt guilt guilt terror........like somehow even after believing in him I still wasn't worthy.... it made me very doubtful.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (07/27/06 01:08 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: leery11]
    #5905297 - 07/27/06 01:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah your right,........the more I speak about it, I can see the hypocrisy in it

What I think what people have to realize is, this simple question, Is Jesus a nut case who was an impostor, or is there any truth to his miracles, resurrection, and him being what he said to proclaim as the Messiah, there is no middle ground, its one or the other, he gave no option in being a prophet, He himself said I am not a teacher,.... all the other heresy you can by pass as far as I'm concerned,


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: capliberty]
    #5905486 - 07/27/06 02:09 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You seem to have a couple misconceptions about Christianity:

1. You seem to think that the Bible must either be taken literally or otherwise discarded. This goes against the rich tradition of interpretation in Judaism known as "midrash." Several early Christian sects, many now referred to as "gnostics," had similar if not more elaborate interpretations of both Old and New Testament passages. Even the orthodox church that eventually won out over the gnostics did not simply derive their faith from literal readings of the Bible. Christian fundamentalism as we know it today is a relatively recent phenomenon.

2. You seem to think that anything that was not kept in the Bible is not Christian. But Christianity did not simply rise in its current form. Christianity as we know it today was not the Christianity of the first couple centuries AD. Many early Christians, including the respected church father Origen, believed in reincarnation. There was also widespread disagreement over the nature of Christ. What is now taken for granted to be Christian doctrine was only arrived at as a result of several councils and fierce debates that occured centuries after Jesus.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: capliberty]
    #5905533 - 07/27/06 02:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

capliberty said:
Yeah your right,........the more I speak about it, I can see the hypocrisy in it

What I think what people have to realize is, this simple question, Is Jesus a nut case who was an impostor, or is there any truth to his miracles, resurrection, and him being what he said to proclaim as the Messiah, there is no middle ground, its one or the other, he gave no option in being a prophet, He himself said I am not a teacher,.... all the other heresy you can by pass as far as I'm concerned,



well.... what about the other option.

Jesus "was" but he was misrepresented by those who compiled the Bible? It's amazing how much more tolerant and open the Gospel of Thomas is.
It also seems really practical. Some of the NT things I've read I'm kind of like "what is the real point in this" and then Jesus will speak a good parable and I'll think about it... but then it's like "Jesus went here, in this place... then he went to that place, and talked to that person" and while maybe that might be good for a story, I'm interested in what was going on in Jesus's head, that he might share his wisdom......

I mean also what if I were enlightened, and I went on the shroomery and tried to save a few people who seemed to like my ramblings... I might say to them "I am THE way out, you have to follow ME!" that does not mean that if in 500 years someone else gets enlightened, that they also won't be the way out.

If Jesus preached to a huge group of people and said "I am the way, but there are other ways too. If you follow me you will be free. But also, you can go find some other way." how would that work?

He was the spiritual "messiah" at that time, the Christ-ed God-man at that time, and he spoke with authority so that he would be adhered to....

what if the whole religion around his ressurrection wasn't necessary... what if he only came to save his disciples and a few other people, and that was it? What if we are supposed to seek out the current spiritual figures in our day?

It really just boils down to faith in the Bible. Is it trustable?
And well..... it's so hard to say, isn't it?
------------------------------------------
ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
---------------------------
That's why I keep saying, you need fruit. You need Christ to come and transform you, to know for sure. And I'm trying to see if he will.
if we look at contradictions like that, we can still say, it's about Jesus, not the OT... or "it's a story, you read it and understand about God but you don't take it literally" but if so, do you take Christ literally then ? It's hard to say really.

I want to find out for sure. It would be a sweet deal if Christ were real and his rewards so simple. there has to be some truth to it I would think.

I feel kind of blasphemous lol. This is me looking for truth though, hopefully no one is led astray from my musings. Maybe Christ simply is, and the details aren't important.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (07/27/06 02:28 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: Silversoul]
    #5905582 - 07/27/06 02:37 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Of course Judaism isn't going to acknowledge Jesus as the coming Christ, I've already pointed that out, there interpretation of the Old testament doesn't support Jesus as Christ, in fact, at the time Christ was teaching the word, they embraced him until he start saying that he was going to be crucified and resurrect from the dead, they didn't like this notion of their Messiah being crucified so they rejected him as Christ, before that he was gaining wide acceptance among the Jews, as he said though, the first will be last and last will be first, LOL


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: capliberty]
    #5905645 - 07/27/06 02:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Are you actually reading my posts? I've said nothing about the Jews' acceptance of Christ. I was simply referring to the tradition of interpreting the Bible allegorically, which carried on into Christianity.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: Silversoul]
    #5905908 - 07/27/06 04:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yup. What Silversoul said.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMOTH
Wild Woman
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5905987 - 07/27/06 04:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Yup. What Silversoul said.




  :thumbup: :wink: :tongue2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRRRR
Rapture Ready

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 170
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5905991 - 07/27/06 04:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Yup. What Silversoul said.



:thumbup:
capliberty, perhaps you should invest in a better pair of spectacles and re-read Silversoul's posts instead of shouting blindly from your pedestal


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: capliberty]
    #5906008 - 07/27/06 04:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

capliberty said:
Of course Judaism isn't going to acknowledge Jesus as the coming Christ, I've already pointed that out, there interpretation of the Old testament doesn't support Jesus as Christ, in fact, at the time Christ was teaching the word, they embraced him until he start saying that he was going to be crucified and resurrect from the dead, they didn't like this notion of their Messiah being crucified so they rejected him as Christ, before that he was gaining wide acceptance among the Jews, as he said though, the first will be last and last will be first, LOL




You are basing your position on the four gospels that are in the NT. Those were late writings with separate agendas connected to each of the writers known as Matthew, Mark, Luke and later still, John. The earliest legitimate Christian writings are some of the letters of Paul. Some of those included in the NT are universally held to be penned from different authors using Paul's name. Otherwise Paul appears as having multiple personalities because doctrines attributed to him are completely opposite one another: the equal regard for women vs. pure misogyny towards women, for example.

Paul never talks about the historical Jesus and this is not only because Paul never met Him. It is the Resurrected Christ, which Paul claims he has (like the Gnostic Christians) that is important. Paul's experience of the Resurrected Christ occurs during mystical ecstatic experiences such as the one on the road to Damascus and his experience of being 'absent to the body' ("caught up to the third heaven").

The whole drama about Jews not accepting Christ makes good sense when you see just how Greek pagan the idea of God fathering a demigod with a mortal woman is. This is the usual Greek mythology and is not Hebrew. God does NOT take form in Semitic faith (Jew or Muslim). There is no reason why the mythos laid out in the gospels would or should be acceptable to Hebrews - they had their own myths and were not about to quit being Jews to join some strange new Mystery Cult surrounding another demigod like Attis, Dionysus, Mithras, etc.
There is nothing other than two centuries of antiJewish propaganda that says that the Jews didn't have access to the spirituality that Jesus taught. Jews have been so villified and so stereotyped that anyone who holds hate for Jews in general has no part of Jesus Christ no matter what they think.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: capliberty]
    #5906019 - 07/27/06 04:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

When one devises a personal philosophy one is free to be influenced by the great thinkers of the past. To reject the worlds religious traditions as an all or nothing affair is rather blind. Every religion has good ideas that can be adopted on an individual basis. It must also be said that having a persoanal and individual philosophy is the only rational course. Where religion falls down is when it beomes organized and becomes part of the vast array of cultural programming that is hammered relentlessly into our subconcious. Taking influence where it seems relevant, however, is a very rational way of thinking and the root personal spiritual and psychological evolution.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5906095 - 07/27/06 05:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RRRR said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Yup. What Silversoul said.



:thumbup:
capliberty, perhaps you should invest in a better pair of spectacles and re-read Silversoul's posts instead of shouting blindly from your pedestal



i don't think he's shouting anything dude.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: leery11]
    #5906183 - 07/27/06 05:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

The reference to : "I AM the Way and the Truth and the Life" does NOT refer to young Y'shua the itinerant teacher - it is a reference to "I AM" which is a reference to the Divine 'Ehyeih' the Name of God given to Moses. In this context, it is that aspect of the Godhead that 'interfaces' with the human being, and that aspect is the Logos [Greek]. Now, The Way is what Christians referred to themselves as for 150 years before they called themselves Christians. The Way is being 'in Christ,' being in 'the Logos.'

What is this Logos one may ask? Well, the Chinese had a word for The Way before Jesus and His commentators came around. The Way in Chinese is called 'Tao' or 'Dao' and we've all heard of Taoism. BE HERE NOW said it best when it said "The Way is The Way is The Way." It's like, a rose by any other name is still a rose. God by any other name is still God. The Dalai Lama himself uses the word God when addressing Americans at Harvard and Buddhists don't use the word God.

Contrary to fundamentalist 'Christians' the Logos is not the exclusive possession of Jesus the Christ.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRRRR
Rapture Ready

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 170
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: leery11]
    #5906216 - 07/27/06 06:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
Quote:

RRRR said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Yup. What Silversoul said.



:thumbup:
capliberty, perhaps you should invest in a better pair of spectacles and re-read Silversoul's posts instead of shouting blindly from your pedestal



i don't think he's shouting anything dude.




An ignorant whisper is more deafening than an illuminated shout.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: RRRR]
    #5907236 - 07/27/06 10:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Christian Gnosticism belief that one must have the Gnosis (from Greek to know) or inner knowledge which is mystical knowledge, It is heresy that Paul battled against in some of his letters in the Churches and was condemned in the first Century Church (40-100AD) It resurrected in modern times to the new aged view, that basically anything goes and religion takes on many different forms, especially in the Eastern philosophies, it is no different as the heresy of the Gnosticism of the first century,

Although Gnosticism reside somewhat in obscurity, Gnosticism roots reside before the Christian Era, as its relations reside in some eastern religions of Indian,

Its deep root principles are philosophical and religious pessimism, its terminology and nomenclature, resides in existing religions, but is used to illustrate the escaping of present day evil by the use of magic spells and superhuman Saviors, It has the same parent-sole as Buddhism, but differs in that its endeavors isn't the extinction of desires but is pseudo-intellectual, and trusts exclusively on magical knowledge

Gnostic's latched on the Christian faith like a leach, assimilating all its sacraments, proclaimed Jesus Christ as its lord and Savior, pretended to be an esoteric revelation of Christ, and flooded the world with its versions of the Gospels, acts and Apocalypses to substantiate its claim, All these weird creatures you here about in revelations, those are Gnostic inspired writings, Christ and his apostles had nothing to do with that stuff,

The earliest fathers devoted their energies in up rooting it, In reality Gnosticism is utterly alien to that of Christianity, to those that are unaware, its seems to be a modification of refinement of the actual faith

All in All, Gnosticism is not Christianity, They do not share the same proclamations of Christianity, It was condemned as heresy back then and its no different now, It has caught on now, because it flexible for the new global view to incorporate all religions, but the traditional Christian views and the gnostic views are vastly different,


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: capliberty]
    #5908240 - 07/28/06 07:45 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You've gotten truth and falsehood braided together. Clement of Alexandria proclaimed himself a Gnostic Christian. Origen was Gnostic in mant regards, Iraeneus vented his spleen against the Gnostics as the agenda of Constantine and Eusebius, known as the great Christian historian, put his own slanted spin on things - not to be believed.

It is true that the Gnostic 'attitude' has Oriental and Indian background. Being older and in certain important respects wiser than the Hebrews, the Hebrews - Jesus included would have held a tribal-salvation of the people, not personally acquired Eternal Life which clearly is the quality of God alone! Eternal Life can be realized only when one becomes identified with God! This derives from Oriental/Indian thought. Greek notions of 'immortality' is markedly different from Eternal Life, yet most Christians believe in some individual survival in the afterlife.

The exclusivist claims of Christianity which identifies the cultus and its practices as 'the ONLY Way to salvation' is the magic of which you speak. Catholic Transubstantiation is the most blatently magical practice in Christendom, not Gnostic practices to the best of my knowledge. Imperialistic crusading Christianity is an extention of the politic of Imperial Rome and it was Christianity that Emperor Constantine chose over Mithraism to bind the Roman Empire together. You, like every other indoctrinated Literalist Christian has never thought to analyze the origins of Christian doctrine - as suspect as it is from all the other religions. Like most people, the unbelievable arrogance of Christianity's claim for exclusivity runs counter to words of Jesus Himself such as "those who are not against us are for us," and "I have come not for the righteous, but for the sinners."

The Gnostic 'attitude' or 'method' not only recognizes that Truth is not a monopoly of the Christian cultus (as if Jesus didn't claim direct continuation of the Jewish faith) it returns the myths to workable processes in the human psyche. Gnostic method shows that myths exist in the realm of mythology, not history, and they can only be salvific when they are understood and realized within the heart of each human being, not awaited as some historical event that is going to pull us up to heaven by our ears.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (07/28/06 09:56 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5908461 - 07/28/06 09:55 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I got one simple question, if you think that Jesus was a fraud and a cult, why latch on to the faith?, to me I'd totally drop it for what it is, there is nothing to gain from false hood,

Am I going adopt David Koreshs point of views, NO


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: capliberty]
    #5908546 - 07/28/06 10:33 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

What do you mean by "Jesus was a fraud"? We no almost NOTHING about the historical Jesus. Philo of Alexandria was a Hellenized Jewish philosopher who lived concurrently with Jesus. Philo left copious philosophical writings about the Logos, yet he nowhere even mentions Jesus. Paul cares ONLY about the Resurrected Christ, not the historical Jesus. Albert Schweitzer theologian and physician, started the whole 19th century inquiry with his book The Quest for the Historical Jesus and came to the conclusion that the Jesus of the Gospels was mythic, not historical. It is clear from the contradictory versions of the Gospels (the four included in the NT - there are many others that were destroyed and unknown til recently) that many versions of the Jesus story existed.

Jesus may be a composite of several strands of Jewish, Greek and Oriental influence woven into a personality. The bulk of Christianity would not only have been alien to a 1st centurt Jewish peasant-class carpenter (Y'shua NEVER would have known about a Holy Trinity, or His place within such a construct. He never would have thought that He was God! All of this and more has been laid upon a questionably historical person. When called "Good Master," did Jesus not respond (according to writ) with "Why call thou me good, only God is good?" Johannine thought took th'man anointed by God' and turned Him into 'God clothed with flesh' - a decidedly Greek mythological notion.

Iesus/Y'shua/Issa/Jesus (Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic/English) may or may not have existed as a historical individual. It didn't much matter to Paul, it didn't matter to most Gnostics and it doesn't matter to me. The Truth of Jesus has nothing to do with His historicity but with the Truth that He symbolizes and which is represented in the writings. How to Be a Human and why to Be such is built in to the various Gospels - even more sensibly in Gospels that were not included in the canon. As for 'heresy,' Websters defines it thusly:

Main Entry: her·e·sy
Pronunciation: 'her-&-sE, 'he-r&-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -sies
Etymology: Middle English heresie, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin haeresis, from Late Greek hairesis, from Greek, action of taking, choice, sect, from hairein to take
1 a : adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma b : denial of a revealed truth by a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church c : an opinion or doctrine contrary to church dogma
2 a : dissent or deviation from a dominant theory, opinion, or practice b : an opinion, doctrine, or practice contrary to the truth or to generally accepted beliefs or standards

I don't know about you, but unlike the medieval mentality that fundamentalists of all faiths still adhere to, I question authority. I have always questioned authority. The Church Fathers and their doctrines NEED to be questioned since they were not all trustworthy. They worked for an evil emperor, they were misogynistic to the max and they looked down upon the illiterate multitudes of believers to such an extent that at one point it became punishable by death for a lay person to be in possession of a Bible!

Myth is not falsehood and it is abysmally ignorant to think so! Read Joseph Campbell's The Power of Myth to understand the meaning of the word 'myth.' Equating the words myth and falsehood is an unfortunate modern mistake. That the intelligent believers have always recognized the midrashic and mythic nature of Gospel stories is unquestionable. That the multitudes (as the Church Fathers knew but exploited) are generally concrete and literal in their understanding has also been true throughout history. The Truth embedded in The Way that Jesus epitomized in the stories may not be historical, but it does not mean that The Way is not true.

I believe that Jesus Christ represents The Way - to Be. I further believe that being conformed to Christ modifies our human nature, transforms us alchemically from baseness to nobility. I know how and what it is like to be trustworthy. I know that it takes continual crucifixion of my selfish desires in order to maintain trustworthiness. I get this 'discipline' from being a 'disciple' of Christ. A beautiful counselee cries on my shoulder - and better a millstone be hung around my neck and me tossed into the sea - than to cop a feel, steal a kiss or exploit her vulnerability in some other base way. Does the desire arise? Yes. Will I act on it? No. Why, fear of disciplinary action on my license? Partly. If the situation takes place with a friend's girlfriend and is not a clinical situation, what stops me? Discipleship. I Know how to Be Christ-like. I too have 'this treasure in an earthen vessel.'
If Christ IS The Kingdom of Heaven, Heaven dwells in a Heart of Compassion, not above the clouds. This is the Truth by which I live. There is no fraud, Christ lives in me too.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5909007 - 07/28/06 01:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Wait... You're trying to imitate a character that was probably imaginary?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5909465 - 07/28/06 04:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Not imaginary. At the very least, a human being, and quite possibly a composite of mythical elements - universal archetypes called by other names in other times and places and focuses on Jesus, just like all the Hebrew prophesies were coalesced in the Gospels to be realized in the Man.

Horus being suckled by Isis may well be the prototype of Jesus and Mary. Osirus was not crucified but dismembered - literally. His 'member' was not found by his wife Isis, but she conceived Horus by Osirus magically. Osirus was THE deity of Resurrection. The themes don't correspond one-to-one, but magical conception, dismemberment of the God-man, resurrection of the God-man, etc. are all parts that can be reassembled in the Jesus mythos. Read any of Freke's & Gandy's books like The Jesus Mysteries and they will give more than sufficient historical data to illustrate what I am saying.

Hebrew midrash was a technique for illustrating spiritual truths - a literary device - not scientific objectivity or the credibility of a New York Times story. Hey, at one time or another we've all been taken in by the Literalist approach. We've accounted for our suspension of faith in modern science as proof of our ability to have faith, to believe. But hey, if a resusitated corpse is what Resurrection means to you, that is your choice to stop at the story-line and not ask yourself "What does this really mean?" I've been asking that question and getting better answers than believing that the story is historical. The Gospel accounts are like pictographs - worded images that represent an invisible reality.

Following Jesus can't work against your life, only for your life. He or His teachings are about 'agape' which is phenomenologically like the dispassionate love of Buddhist Compassion. What are you goung to do with your life if life isn't about human development? Amass a fortune just to feed your base mammalian desires, or actually do something to bring Christ into this world in some measure in your own person?


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5909650 - 07/28/06 05:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Hold on, now your at least acknowledging Jesus was being an actual man, we're making some progress here,

Being 200 yrs removed from the actual accounts of Christ isn't very long, I know for a fact that George Washington was the president of the United States, no one doubts this, and he's 200 years removed from the present day,

The Gospels give a little bit more legitimacy then people give credit, the fierce debate about what books where going to be added and what books weren't was not even an issue with the gospels and the letters of Paul, these were automatically submitted as authentic accounts of Jesus story, the debates were on all these speculative writing coming from some these Gnostic's and other story tellers about certain accounts that had no real backing behind them.

Some of these writings were speculating on the childhood of Jesus, him performing miracles as a child and all this other speculations about his life and lives of his followers. But even the overwhelming amount of literature that was produced, false or true, that came in the next few centuries after Jesus's death, kinda shows that there was a Jesus, and he definitely had some powerful views,

Of course there was some early accounts that said Jesus was more of a moral teacher, but there was so much controversy even back then, on what actually was going on, I mean think about it he got crucified as an impostor, you think those people went away

and this might draw up on a strong argument against the legitimacy of Christ, because there was so much folk lore being spread around, that maybe Christ was manifested bigger than what he was through all this folk lore,

but the Church back then knew to a certain degree what was actually true accounts of his story and what was heresy, The gospels and the letters of Paul were truest and most authentic accounts out all of the gospels, and there were plenty of this extra gospels circulating around, some may have some true tid bits but most of it was just heresy, I'd be interested in reading them myself, but no real legitimate backing, that is why they were disregarded


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: capliberty]
    #5909722 - 07/28/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

capliberty said:
Being 200 yrs removed from the actual accounts of Christ isn't very long, I know for a fact that George Washington was the president of the United States, no one doubts this, and he's 200 years removed from the present day,




The times in which "Jesus Christ" existed are said to be around 2,000 years previous to this one. That's ten times as far back as George Washington. Not to mention that the circumstances pertaining to the recording of history are incredibly different. :lol:

Quote:


But even the overwhelming amount of literature that was produced, false or true, that came in the next few centuries after Jesus's death, kinda shows that there was a Jesus, and he definitely had some powerful views,




There is an overwhelming amount of literature that was produced concerning Luke Skywalker, but the fact that there is offers no validity to the actual existance of one Luke Skywalker. :lol:

Tell me, what is the difference between Jesus Christ and Odin? More literature? Or the fact that it is the myth of the culture that dominates others that is valid?

Quote:


but the Church back then knew to a certain degree what was actually true accounts of his story and what was heresy, The gospels and the letters of Paul were truest and most authentic accounts out all of the gospels, and there were plenty of this extra gospels circulating around, some may have some true tid bits but most of it was just heresy, I'd be interested in reading them myself, but no real legitimate backing, that is why they were disregarded




I'm most curious as to exactly what position you hold in being able to know what you profess. Can you cite any sources, specifically pertaining to who and what "the Church" was. I'm incredibly interested in knowing what you base your conclusions upon, my friend. Are you just expressing your feeling, or is it divine inspiration that allows you to know what happened? :lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: capliberty]
    #5909751 - 07/28/06 06:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

capliberty said:
Being 200 yrs removed from the actual accounts of Christ isn't very long, I know for a fact that George Washington was the president of the United States, no one doubts this, and he's 200 years removed from the present day



:lol:  F_G said most of what I was going to say, but I just had to laugh at what an amazingly stupid analogy this is.  George Washington wrote letters, posed for portraits, and delivered speeches that were written down DURING HIS LIFETIME.  Try studying someone who lived 200 years ago who had no birth records, never wrote anything, and never had anyone else write anything about him until some 40 years after his death.  See how accurate and reliable that information is.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: capliberty]
    #5910114 - 07/28/06 09:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I would like to believe that Y'shua was a historical personage, but as I said, there is almost nothing about him: a passing reference from Josephus the historian, Tacitus and Sueternius. Meanwhile Philo of Alexandria (you would think) would've heard something about the miracle worker from Galilee.

You're wrong about the four Gospels being automatically admitted to the canon. John's Gospel almost didn't make it in as being 'too Gnostic,' and his Revelations was one of many apocaltptic stories that could have been admitted. You can't see the forest for the trees as your perspective seems totally steeped in the orthodox by-line. SEveral of Paul's letters were clearly NOT written by the same person, it is that simple, unless he had a Dissociative Disorder (formerly MPD).

The Nag Hammadi books have only recently been subjected to analysis and you'll forgive me if YOUR dismissal of alternative streams of Christian theology is taken by me as irrelevant. You are too trusting of "the Church back then" and your naivete in the matter is startling. Apparently you have no idea to what extent Christian myths were appropriated by the imperialistic Roman Empire and made a martial force in the world. I recommend that you rediscover Christ in the depths and height of your own being, not in the severely tainted doctrines of church history which are long overdue for radical revision.

With that said, let us restructure Trinitarian thought to include +++ The Father +++ The Son +++ The Holy Mother +++ This is the beginning I have in mind to put the pathologically misogynistic and patriarchal miscreants in their rightful place, elevate womankind to their rightful place as equals, and recognize that God is as much Feminine as Masculine...or neither! This ought ethically to be orthodoxy, not heresy. I am aware of a theologian like Sergei Bulgakov who has tried to recognize Sophia [Wisdom] as an aspect of Deity, while also being threatened with the charge of heresy, but I know several intelligent spiritual homosexual men who are definately NOT female haters - unlike the so-called 'Church Fathers.'


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5910177 - 07/28/06 09:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Even as a firm naturalist, I can understand the use of symbolism, allegories, myths, etc to describe (universal?) human experiences. Personally, resurrection is one of my favorites, and consequentially I walk around with an Eye of Horus dangling around my neck.

Having read the New Testament, I don't see why Jesus is a superior resurrection figure than Horus. Plus, Jesus is loaded down with ressentimental morality that I do not approve of and far too much emphasis is put on other (imaginary) realities instead of this one. But, that is my Nietzchesque bias.  :tongue:


Edited by MushmanTheManic (07/28/06 09:37 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5911333 - 07/29/06 07:38 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The times in which "Jesus Christ" existed are said to be around 2,000 years previous to this one. That's ten times as far back as George Washington. Not to mention that the circumstances pertaining to the recording of history are incredibly different.




Yeah I'm not talking about us as the present, I know that we're 2000 years removed, what I'm refering as 200 years is when Christ was reported as being crusified and the time in which the four gospels and the letters of Paul were reported to the orthodox church,


Edited by capliberty (07/29/06 08:31 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
Re: Blending religions & philosophies [Re: capliberty]
    #5911591 - 07/29/06 10:25 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Paul never thought that his letters to new churches were going to be regarded as holy writ, and the Gospel narratives came considerably later. Paul wrote just a few years after Jesus was executed. The rationale for selecting four gospels instead of 5 or 6? There are four directions and four winds so there should be four gospels. That was the 'reason' if you can call that a reason. Gospels like Thomas essentially undercut the need for a priesthood and the reliance upon the sacraments for salvation, so that HAD to be excluded AND destroyed! Can't have the multitudes going about Self-Realizing God in The Way that Jesus taught! When Jesus [allegedly] said "Do this in memory of me," with regard to breaking bread, He did not say anything to the effect that 'your salvation depends upon this act.' The priesthood developed that bit of mind-control and millions of people lived in anguish and fear of Hell when they were banned or excommunicated from the Roman Church, believing that 'outside the Church, there is no salvation.'


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* christianity and philosophy Anonymous 801 6 08/11/03 12:30 PM
by Malachi
* Murder, killing, death penalty, religion, ect. Vulture 1,383 10 06/04/03 01:22 AM
by thestringphish
* A thought on religion
( 1 2 3 all )
Druginduced 5,190 47 12/24/03 08:25 AM
by fireworks_god
* philosiphy of religion
( 1 2 3 4 all )
aluminum_can 9,882 77 08/10/01 03:58 AM
by Zen Peddler
* Say something positive about Christians
( 1 2 3 all )
silversoul7 4,929 43 09/06/04 12:57 PM
by ska8ball
* Onward Christian Stoner... JhadAgainstReality 4,754 6 09/08/03 12:48 AM
by monoamine
* Christianity Makes Perfect Sense
( 1 2 all )
Anarkhos 2,058 27 01/19/04 04:58 PM
by fungulus
* christianity or paulism? automanM 1,279 16 09/29/03 06:19 PM
by MarkostheGnostic

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
4,156 topic views. 0 members, 10 guests and 3 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.039 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 12 queries.