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The_Aviator
High Flyer



Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 2,277
Loc: Gamehendge
Last seen: 6 years, 16 days
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: nateg37]
#15484651 - 12/08/11 08:09 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
nateg37 said: I dunno guys... some drugs should be made illegal and other "drugs" should not be illegal. It probably sounds cliche but, if God made it... it's not a drug. He created it and placed it on earth for the use of mankind. Things like herb and mushrooms are not drugs... they provide a deep relaxation and/or expansion of the mind - to think in ways and to see things how they would not have been otherwise seen. You get a different view of your life when looking at it thru a 3rd person perspective. Real drugs are things like coke, meth, and heroin... even liquor. And yes, regrettably I used to do them all. But the difference is, these drugs are synthesized by man to do one thing - f you up - both short and long term. That's not how God wants us to be. Happy... yes. Wasted and non-functional... no. I've never seen a heroin tree or a crack bush.. I know most people here will probably disagree with me and that's OK. But, I know that my wife and kids notice a HUGE difference since I quit drinking and drugs... and I wouldn't have my home any other way. 
It doesn't matter if "God" made it or not. A chemical that alters your perception of reality is a drug. Alcohol occurs naturally through fermentation and cocaine comes from the coca plant. Heroin comes from the poppy plant. So these substances are natural. Natural != safe. Look at datura.
The one that should make the decision to not use drugs is you. Why should the government make that decision for you? Freedom is a simple concept. You reap what you sow. Put the tax money toward treatment and education on these substances.
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Sartre on conciousness: "a being such that in its being, its being is in question in so far as this being implies a being other than itself." Being and Nothingness Easy no-nausea hbwr tek Phish videos and discussion!
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: nateg37]
#15484696 - 12/08/11 08:24 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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if God made it... it's not a drug. He created it and placed it on earth for the use of mankind. Things like herb and mushrooms are not drugs
Then neither is meth. It's made by at least two plants.
This is another demonstration of how powerful and effective the drug misinformation campaigns of our government and DARE actually are. Even among people who fancy themselves well informed on the topic, ignorance prevails. Point of fact, meth is made by at least two species of acacia plants.
Meth is a natural substance. Read it for yourself. From the Ask Dr. Shulgin web:
Here, amongst some 40 or so alkaloids found in each of these two species, there were five amphetamines that had heretofore been thought to be inventions of man. Two of these are Schedule II drugs, Amphetamine and Methamphetamine. Two are Schedule I drugs, N,N-Dimethylamphetamine and 4-Methoxyamphetamine.
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adsarchive/acacia.htm
Now please tell me more about reefer madness and how bad cannabis is.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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nateg37
Just a Simple Gardener



Registered: 10/02/11
Posts: 26
Loc: Southeast
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Diploid]
#15485156 - 12/08/11 10:47 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'll give credit where it's due - that's something I did not know. Thanks man.. I do appreciate the knowledge. Now, I didn't mention anything about reefer madness or how bad herb is... Sorry brother, but you are mistaken or have me confused with somebody else.
Everything is a natural substance when you break it down.. think back to chemistry class and the periodic table. You are missing my point... these words "come from," "made from," "derived from" all mean one thing - made by man. There is a difference between growing something and making it. "Legalize everything" looks so great on paper and appears to reflect the "freedom" of the people. Yay... Severe addiction is not freedom. Heroin was my favorite high of all time. Ever have to kick or see somebody kick? Ever see the kids of addicted parents? I have and do.. who fights for the kids' rights or do we just wait for the parents to kill them and only then prosecute? Show me a man who believes that society is better off with hard drugs being legal and easily accessible and I will show you a fool who knows nothing about the absolute Hell of addiction.
Edited by nateg37 (12/09/11 08:27 AM)
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abltsandwich
JFK = Jelly Donut




Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 11,537
Loc: Dildoville
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Diploid]
#15485259 - 12/08/11 11:16 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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Since the poll says all drugs without exception and doesn't refer to "recreational drugs" specifically, then I have to say that some drugs (like banned prescription drugs) should remain illegal/banned.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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some drugs (like banned prescription drugs) should remain illegal/banned
Why?
I'm an adult. If I make a decision to consume a potentially harmful prescription drug, why do you or the state have the right to take control of what I can and can't put in my own body?
Your argument smacks of drug prohibition just like any other kind.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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The_Aviator
High Flyer



Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 2,277
Loc: Gamehendge
Last seen: 6 years, 16 days
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Quote:
abltsandwich said: Since the poll says all drugs without exception and doesn't refer to "recreational drugs" specifically, then I have to say that some drugs (like banned prescription drugs) should remain illegal/banned.
So the people that use them should go to jail or pay a fine? I believe that drug use should be a health issue, not a criminal issue. What kind of drugs are you referring to?
--------------------
Sartre on conciousness: "a being such that in its being, its being is in question in so far as this being implies a being other than itself." Being and Nothingness Easy no-nausea hbwr tek Phish videos and discussion!
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
Loc: Geospatial inversion.
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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We should all gorge down any drug we want without any prosecution or legal difficulties!

And yes there are many more liberal policies that work much better. Look at needle exchange programs, they help instead of punish. Look at dutch policy, criminality taken off the streets... it is infact a medical problem
Why one drug should be legal and other gets stigmatized is beyond me
Edited by Beanhead (12/08/11 12:52 PM)
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Simbowski
Stranger
Registered: 12/08/11
Posts: 2
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Beanhead]
#15485806 - 12/08/11 01:09 PM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hmm, kinda at a loss for what to say.
Okay, um, this is my first post.
I'm currently enjoying 35mg of MXE and feeling guilt-free, as it is still legal.
I've been lurking for a while, this seems like a very pleasant place, so I joined, and here we are! Spectacular.
Hello, one and all!
As to the question of drug legality:
I am generally of the opinion that too much indulgence is bad for you. Last summer I attempted to read "The Nicomachean Ethics" and although I didn't make it all that far (I'll give it a re-read soon) I understood the core concept; that a happy existence depends upon balance.
I feel that because people are generally of varied dispositions and intellects, allowing complete and unconditional access to every drug under the sun for anyone with two arms and a leg is unwise. Everything is relative and subjective; so to white-wash a concept like TOTAL DRUG LEGALITY as singular and pure is to neglect the individual quirks of people.
I sound like a pretentious cunt, but really I'm just enjoying the activity of typing.
=]
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Simbowski]
#15486507 - 12/08/11 03:20 PM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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I am generally of the opinion that
So because you have a certain opinion, you feel it's right to impose it on everyone, even people who do not share that opinion.
This is exactly why we live in such an ugly world man. Look around. Almost all our problems stem from one group trying to impose their beliefs on another group who doesn't share those beliefs.
The only prohibitions that should be imposed on any of us are those that prevent one person from hurting another. Period.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Simbowski
Stranger
Registered: 12/08/11
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Diploid]
#15487357 - 12/08/11 05:46 PM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: I am generally of the opinion that
So because you have a certain opinion, you feel it's right to impose it on everyone, even people who do not share that opinion.
This is exactly why we live in such an ugly world man. Look around. Almost all our problems stem from one group trying to impose their beliefs on another group who doesn't share those beliefs.
The only prohibitions that should be imposed on any of us are those that prevent one person from hurting another. Period.
Jesus, sorry.
Like I said, I was off in my own little world at the time of writing, peaking on my first MXE dose, so you shouldn't take the haughty tone to heart.
I wasn't imposing my opinion, just saying what I thought. I don't trust every single person in the world to behave like a decent human being under the influence of powerful drugs. There's billions of us and space is becoming thin on the ground, so before we give irritable, well-armed men with low intelligence and little regard for others free license to enjoy all the PCP they can afford, I think there should be some sort of qualifier.
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jizmaster

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 346
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Simbowski]
#15539031 - 12/19/11 09:33 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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Cartman: 'Isn't he awesome, he just goes around imposing his will on people' lol
Stupid angry armed people can already buy as much alcohol as they can afford, which is probably just as bad a combination.
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egodeathflux
Guttersnipe



Registered: 02/02/10
Posts: 3,854
Loc: The Stygian Pits
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Diploid]
#15624391 - 01/06/12 09:22 AM (12 years, 25 days ago) |
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The thought that I, or anyone, can be put in jail for growing or possessing substances they wish to ingest is ludicrous.
Whether or not they should be fully legal is another matter. I believe a degree of restriction or control would be a good thing. For example age limits for purchase and controls/regulations on production quality.
Maybe even a drug permit for given substances, like a Med. Marijuana card but not restricted to medicine alone, you'd have to do an awareness/education course before being permitted to buy opiates/amphetamines/benzos whatever.
If this was done in a sensible way I think the knowledge-base of the society would, in time, lead to reduced rates of abuse and addiction. Pretty sure we all agree that lack of real understanding or knowledge of substances and their physiological effects is a major problem with "drugs" in general.
Prohibition is a fools errand, people who wish to use drugs will do so, likewise people who don't use drugs will not suddenly start doing them if they were suddenly legal. Can't picture my mother buying Heroin because it was legal, people are not as stupid as the governments of the world would have us believe.
It's very cliche but the only drugs I'm addicted to are legal ones. I've used opiates and benzos among other things for years without acquiring a habit, I just don't have them every day or even every year.
I read this somewhere recently and forget where, so apologies if it's someone's sig: -"DRUG ADDICTS GIVE DRUG USERS A BAD NAME"
My opinion on this issue has shifted over time and is by no means set in stone, it is such an emotive issue with so many emotional and social ramifications. I assume everyone on this site has done a drug of one kind or another, and yet there are 25 pages of discussion among a group whose opinions could be very polarised in this thread alone.
Let us know when you declare a winner, Diploid.
-------------------- "Atrophic interludes weave through my life far too often, for me to fight the biggest enemies" "Standing on the corner of 5th and Vermouth"
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keeno
enthusiast



Registered: 06/01/11
Posts: 2,679
Loc: UK
Last seen: 13 days, 15 hours
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I agree prohibition is a waste of time
however, I do think that there would be more addicts if everything was legalised/ decriminalised. But that's not going to be worse for society in the long run as there will be a much healthier climate for recovery, not to mention Billions of pounds/ dollars every year, that aren't spent on policing/ the jail system, and loss of peoples property through theft.
I'd like to think we were intelligent enough as a race to be able to decide for ourselves what we put into our bodies, and with proper education, we can decide what is right for us. but after having been out in a town centre on a Saturday night, I'm not so sure. haha but I'm with the extreme libertarians that think if anyone does kill themselves on drugs,then that's merely evolution in effect.
"if he thought he could fly, why didn't he take of from the ground, instead of out of an 5th storey window"
-------------------- Check out my Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa (Allenii) TEK Top fungi-knowlodgy with THE TRIBE! THE TRIBE
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: keeno]
#15624999 - 01/06/12 11:30 AM (12 years, 25 days ago) |
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however, I do think that there would be more addicts if everything was legalised/ decriminalised
The facts don't support this. It's an argument based on emotion and drug war propaganda instead of logic and rational thinking.
Portugal decriminalized ALL possession of ALL drugs. You can walk around Portugal with crack and meth in your shirt pocket and it is fully legal. Guess what happened after decriminalization? Drug use declined.
Here's part of a Time Magazine report on Portugal's decriminalization success:
From the perspective of drug warriors, the criminal laws against drug possession are all that protect Americans from a deluge of drugs, an orgy of marijuana, cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine use that would kill children, destroy productivity and basically leave America a smoking hulk of wasteland populated by brain-dead zombies.
For example, one opponent of marijuana decriminalization wrote in a 2009 forum in the New York Times that the policy would lead to “hundreds of billions of dollars in new medical-care costs, traffic and other accident costs, reduced worker productivity and lower educational achievements.”
But new research on Portugal’s drug policy suggests that this isn’t necessarily so. Portugal decriminalized possession of all drugs in 2001. The outcome, after nearly a decade, according to a study published in the November issue of the British Journal of Criminology: less teen drug use, fewer HIV infections, fewer AIDS cases and more drugs seized by law enforcement. Adult drug use rates did slightly increase — but this increase was not greater than that seen in nearby countries that did not change their drug policies. The use of drugs by injection declined.
Read the rest of the report here: Time Magazine
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Diploid]
#15625413 - 01/06/12 01:12 PM (12 years, 25 days ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (04/28/22 07:51 PM)
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keeno
enthusiast



Registered: 06/01/11
Posts: 2,679
Loc: UK
Last seen: 13 days, 15 hours
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Diploid]
#15629788 - 01/07/12 12:16 PM (12 years, 24 days ago) |
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yeah I read the article in Time a while back, it was a good report. I'd love to find out more about how things are progressing in Portugal, pretty much all the things I've heard so far have been really positive, and hopefully some of this information will influence the rest of the world as to the failures of prohibition.
My statement was based on a report I read over 5 years ago in a scientific journal online (I have no idea which one though I'm afraid), which theorised that addiction would rise if all drugs were fully legal and available to purchase on the high street, as it were. More people would be able to try heroin, for example if you could go to a local chemists and buy some. In all my 22 years of being around drugs, and taking drugs, I've never even knowingly seen heroin, not that I'd take it if I could see it. But if it were freely available, there might have been times when I thought "fuck it, lets get smacked out of it"
the report also said that after an initial spike of addictions and use, that it would reduce and become more moderate, and the benefits to society in terms of crime reduction etc. would improve societies onion of the whole issue
I'd love to think that Portugal will start a new openness, as at the end of the day if the general public see it works and agree with the benefits, then Governments who want their votes will sway towards that way of thinking too 
ah one can hope
-------------------- Check out my Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa (Allenii) TEK Top fungi-knowlodgy with THE TRIBE! THE TRIBE
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: keeno]
#15630052 - 01/07/12 01:15 PM (12 years, 24 days ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (04/28/22 07:52 PM)
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Quote:
Notwoodyallen said: Please lets not compare alcohol to heroin and methamphetamine. There is no comparison. I've seen done, coke, and alcohol addicts. Alcohol is probably more scairy to me then those things, to an extent. It's way stronget then coke, or adderal, or vivance, in the opposite direction. You need a strong constitution for such things, Americans and modern people don't, they just want escape with no respect
Wow this thread is old. I don't remember posting half this stuff. I still don't think alcohol is as bad though. 
But yeah, my uncle drank himself to death so I know it can be shitty dude. No arguing that. It just doesn't creep me out, and send up red flags like hard opiates, for example. But I can understand for some people, it can be worse. I've never been that into drinking, so what do I know?
Now that I think about it, more people probably die from being drunk and stupid, than shooting dope...anyway.
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Konyap


Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Robo]
#15630702 - 01/07/12 03:54 PM (12 years, 24 days ago) |
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drugs shouldnt just be floating around
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playn4keeps
Stranger
Registered: 01/11/12
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Diploid]
#15650024 - 01/11/12 12:53 PM (12 years, 20 days ago) |
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I Think everything should be decriminalized and substances with no practical use or health benefit should be regulated
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