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Chemy
Jesus is Lord

Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: Drug Legality Poll *DELETED* [Re: Hopi]
#8063734 - 02/24/08 09:43 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by ChemyReason for deletion: Reason for deleting?
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Hopi]
#8063863 - 02/24/08 10:28 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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---
Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 02:03 PM)
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EllisDSox
King Hella!

Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 25,730
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Diploid]
#8063917 - 02/24/08 10:44 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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If they were to be legalised gradually, over a period of time in which intensive TRUTHFUL drugs education programmes were run, then it would work. Basically, if an entire generation was raised being told the truth about drugs, both in school and out of it, they'd probably be able to manage all drugs being legal.
It's not like prohibition works, at all. Anything you want, you can probably find, and if not you can just get something similar. Quality control could be introduced if drugs were legal, and one could be absolutely certain of the purity, substance and dose involved.
Drugs couldn't just be instantly legalised, in my opinion. So many people currently believe that all illegal drugs are bad, because the government says so. If they were legalised, these people would assume drugs were perfectly safe and utterly destroy themselves. Legalisation, if combined with drug education and guides for safe use, would work just fine.
-------------------- Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.
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Hopi
Stranger in astrange land


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 72
Last seen: 10 years, 27 days
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: EllisDSox]
#8064067 - 02/24/08 11:21 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Chemy, your local pharmacy does not(or at least has a much lower) risk getting shot dead during a drug deal, or imprisoned, and will not sell you drugs cut with some sort of bullshit. You don't risk(or again, have a much lower risk) getting mugged while going to it, like you would when walking on through the ghetto, you a white boy in a hard-ass neighbourhood where people get killed over petty disputes. THAT is what I meant by steady, stable access. I laugh at how you immediately assume I meant it that one way.
Entheogenic - believe me, I would be content if the fires of Hell(no, I'm not religious) had swallowed up the first Europeans to have discovered and cashed in on the properties of nicotine. That being said, cigarettes don't really stand up to meth and crack. They just don't. I know that that is already true with alcohol, but we need less people being able to kill themselves legally, not more. Just to be really clear - I do not like alcohol or cigarettes one bit. Not at all. I had fun times with alcohol when I was in my teens(14-16), but that was because we were using it with a really close group of friends from a small school, and we all loved each other. After we finished that school, we all went to different schools, made more friends, went to different parties, and there I experienced what most people do on alcohol - fight, fuck, do stupid shit, pass out. Take your pick. You do make a good point about prohibition and the hassle for them getting it being a setback, not beneficial for my safety. However, I still think those drugs need to be illegal, since(again) the Average Joe believes what the government tells him. If the government legalises those drugs and says that he can use them if he wants, Average Joe might start thinking that they're not so bad after all and might get addicted to them. That's a lot of mights, but having the Average Joe listen to the government when it tells him that those drugs are bad and illegal for a reason, and as a result not trying them is better. And I admit - I'm also "for the greater good", but the other side in me is just screaming, "People are too stupid to use drugs responsibly! Don't let them!"
I have to go write up a book report, but I'm interested in hearing your response.
-------------------- Ten thousand miles an hour plus We streak across the sky like dust And none of us know where or why We're like a jewel in the sky http://psychedelicnews.wordpress.com/
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jizmaster

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 346
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Hopi]
#8064709 - 02/24/08 02:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
I still think those drugs need to be illegal, since(again) the Average Joe believes what the government tells him. If the government legalises those drugs and says that he can use them if he wants, Average Joe might start thinking that they're not so bad after all and might get addicted to them. That's a lot of mights, but having the Average Joe listen to the government when it tells him that those drugs are bad and illegal for a reason, and as a result not trying them is better.
Better would be if Average Joe gave enough of a shit to research what he heard rather than blindly believing it and risking his/her life based only on what someone told him.
Quote:
"People are too stupid to use drugs responsibly! Don't let them!"
Why not let them? Before long people will no longer be too stupid to use drugs responsibly.
All this health and safety crap is ridiculous, maybe the goal is that eventually the majority of people will become almost completely incapable of thinking. Without being told what to do they will be basically unable to leave their seat in front of the tv without falling off buildings or getting run over. Total control over an army of morons!
Edited by jizmaster (02/24/08 02:17 PM)
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robbyberto
Water Boy


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 15,499
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Hopi]
#8064721 - 02/24/08 02:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hopi said: Of course, I am for the legalisation of marijuana, mushrooms, DMT, LSD, and other psychedelic drugs. If you want to argue about that, I'd be happy to.
Another drug elitist, got it. I'll be sure to skip over your posts in the future.
-------------------- “People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington
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Cubie
Moderator




Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 8,840
Loc: Down the rabbit hole...
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Chemy]
#8068287 - 02/25/08 11:39 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chemy said:
Quote:
steady access to a drug
I guess you don't know that anyone can get meth heroin or crack 24/7......... Is that steady access???? I think it is....... Oh wait it is absolutely steady access in an era of prohibition, so you're saying addicts can't get these drugs right now, but they would only have access if legalized.
lol, I laugh at some of the ignorance and stupidity about certain drugs but it gets to be frustrating also.
for real! around here junkies stay twacked till like 6 in the morning and then wanna get more. the black market created by prohibition is the problem here not the drugs
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sam420
CertifiedReptilianOverlord



Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 3,144
Loc: Scotland
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Hopi]
#8068334 - 02/25/08 12:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Both sides of the argument are strong.
*Sits firmly on fence*
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i'm a spy huntin rap dinosaur from the future
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
I've seen a crack dealing pimp beating the shit out of his crack addicted prostitute.
Great citation, really. Let's look at how this could play out in an alternative society based on freedom & individual liberty.
1st: the sale of cocaine would be regulated & taxed. Therefore, unsavory characters (which admittedly dominate the trade of "hard" drugs when they're illegal) wouldn't be involved in its sale.
2nd: Prostitution would likewise be legal & regulated so that the women (& men) who choose to engage in it have laws & regulations to protect them, & also would have a legal avenue to report any abuse that does occur, & those who engage in abuse of prostitutes would be severely penalized because they committed a real crime (violated the rights of another).
3rd: Even if she still was crack-addicted & in an abusive situation, she could go to a medical facility to safely & effectively seek treatment for her disease (because addiction is a disease, not a crime).
It's ironic that you (or anyone, for that matter) would bring up such an example to argue that prohibition must be maintained. If those who have such a knee-jerk reaction to that event, which admittedly is a horrible situation, would take a moment to understand & access the situation fully & rationally, then they would arrive at a very radical conclusion, but one that is true nonetheless: Freedom & individual liberty work, you just have to be daring enough to have enough faith to implement them fully.
yep

its frustrating to even hear people make these arguments without addressing the obvious rebuttal. Say you don't buy it if you like, but every honest policy discusion includes entheogenic peace's obvious, and correct in my opinion, reply
I can't help but think people are ignorant when they say shit like in the above. I'm not picking on you in particular, I here this shit everywhere, but I'd think in a country with the highest prison population in history... and half being drug criminals... we'd have a better collective understanding of the issue.
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Ritalin_boy
Stranger
Registered: 03/05/08
Posts: 8
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Shroomism]
#8174996 - 03/21/08 07:03 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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(i've only read 5 or 6 pages, any more and i would've had to shoot up meth to have the patience to get thru any more(tasteless joke)... so excuse me if im restating opinions)
I'm for full legalisation. let it be known.
The way i see it, crime attached to meth would be directly related to the expense of using bulk quantities of an expensive product, and not holding down a job earning enough to support said habit.
Make "being detrimentally addicted or habituated" a crime, and lock up people who arent smart enough to use the harder drugs responsibly.
Even, roll out those permanent receptor blocking 'drug vaccines' for people who are repeat (complete) idiots. i dont condone these really but for real morons, who remove other peoples liberties, they obviously dont need their own.
Also, its just generally not really seen as appropriate to inject, nor to be a junkie, even amongst regular heavy drug users. i have nothing against injecting, i'd like to try at least K, but the general concensus among most people links injecting, at least regularly, with 'derro's'. being an obnoxious, violent criminal is also frowned upon most places, and this is what is really wrong, not the personal use.
i know hundreds of people who've smoked meth, done week long binges, and none of them were problem criminals (except for the two or three who were already into petty crime while they were at school, long before drugs.)
Tax exceedingly wealthy people and companies more, and stop spending billions on prohibition, and provide free higher education and skill training to the whole population. then provide rehabilitation to the people still stupid enough to become zombies, and lock up the people who JUST DONT GET IT.
drug related violence and crime(ala junkies), and i hate to generalise, is mostly confined to less educated and less well off community members. if everyone was more educated, and more skilled, hence more employable, they would be less likely to sink into shitholes. they'd also be more psycologically and financially capable of digging themselves out of their holes, and more equipped to stay out if they wanted to.
i can easily see how i could be addicted to meth, or cocaine for that matter. but i know within me that i just don't want this, so it WON'T HAPPEN. also, if i had a plethora of drugs in clean, measured quantities available at my chemist, i would be inclined to rotate my drug use, and i know a lot of others would too. this would deffinitely contribute to less addictions.
The final most important step as i see it is twofold.
- Firstly, information. if the information on drugs was widely available and unbiased, this would help greatly.(I am a self taught encyclopedia of information on virtually any psychoactive i could come in contact with, so that i know which ones im interested in, and what they'll likely do to me and be like, so i will always make informed decisions. learning all of this was almost as much fun for me as doing drugs.) - Secondly, the family unit could continue its (somewhat) successful work of instilling its children with the notion that mind altering substances are bad. if some people buy this story when their parents tell it to them, as a lot of people do, then no worries. i dont care if other people get duped into abstaining, i jsut know i want to do them.
Humanity is exceedingly intelligent and adaptable, there is no reason we cannot overcome all of our problems. we just don't seem too willing to try.
Peace.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Ritalin_boy]
#8175790 - 03/21/08 12:44 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Wow, kick-ass first post. Welcome to the Shroomery! I hope you stick around!
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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OwMyHead
Village eediyot



Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 196
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Diploid]
#8303629 - 04/19/08 06:27 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hm.
Someone I know was routinely abandoned at home as a child because her mother was a heroin addict.
omeone else I know ended up living on the streets because his mother was a meth addict and lost everything.
This shit happened when the people I knew were under 18. Being abandoned at home or living on the streets as a child has had profound and lasting effects on both of them.
I know people are going to jump to "but those adults weren't 'responsible users'" and while that is true, both of these substances are known to be profoundly addictive. And AFAIK, those don't really do anything for you except completely alter your personality for the worse.
Ayahuasca (supposedly) teaches you something. Peyote supposedly teaches you something. Acid gets you wasted, but is supposedly not addictive. Shrooms can teach you something or just get you generally high, but is not addictive. MDMA can be damaging in several ways, but AFAIK, isn't generally addictive. Pot gets you mellow and calm and isn't addictive.
Legalising those (especially as MDMA was originally used in therapy) is one thing. Legalising meth . . . I'm not so sure.
To me, that Pot, Shrooms, Peyote and Ayahuasca are illegal seems the height of stupidity to me, and I'm *allergic* to pot and can't be in the same room with someone else when they smoke it because it causes me difficulty breathing.
But I'd just as soon meth stayed illegal. I'd like to be able to buy Sudafed at all hours of the day during allergy season, kthx. (*points at username*)
-------------------- Free the WM3!!!
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: OwMyHead]
#8303836 - 04/19/08 09:09 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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OwMyHead, use critical thought and rationality instead of the knee-jerk DARE psychological conditioning indoctrinated into you since age five.
If you think for yourself instead of letting the system think for you, you'll realize that despite already bing illegal and carrying huge penalties for possession, those drugs were easily available to the parents you speak of anyway.
Prohibition doesn't stop people from buying and using drugs. You can't stop something the population wants. The thing prohibition DOES do is make the drug trade so profitable that it funds giant drug cartels and violent drug gangs. If drugs were decriminalized, that money in the form of taxes could be used to treat addicts instead of buying fancy mansions and cars for drug dealers. It could also be used to fund education campaigns with REAL truths about drugs, not DARE propaganda so that kids who read this information will pay attention to it instead of ignoring it as more DARE bullshit, which is what they do now.
Prohibition also rips families apart by jailing people instead of treating them which is what we SHOULD be doing because addiction is a medical condition, not a crime.
Step out of the tiny box your social conditioning has locked you in and think for yourself man. Not everyone who uses meth becomes a hopless addict. I use meth once in a while, usually to celebrate during the end of the year holidays. I've done this for many years, yet I'm still a happy, healthy, contributing member of society who pays taxes, helps people in need, and stays out of trouble. Just like responsible alcohol drinkers did during the era of alcohol prohibition.
Meanwhile, were I to get caught by the prohibitionist bullies with guns and badges, my life would be over. I'd go to prison, stop paying taxes, and leave my family to fend for themselves. And instead of a contributor to society, I'd become a resource sink in that it would cost some $30,000 a year to keep me in a cage for doing something in the privacy of my own home that hurts no one. When/if I got out, I'd have a felony record and can kiss goodbye any chance at a good job so instead of contributing and paying taxes, I'd probably put to use all the new criminal knowledge and skills I learned while in prison.
Whatever harm drugs cause society, prohibition causes many times more harm. DARE doesn't want you to realize this, and their strategy to keep you from thinking freely is working.
Think for yourself and see past the prohibitionists' backward agenda!
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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OwMyHead
Village eediyot



Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 196
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Diploid]
#8357596 - 05/03/08 12:39 PM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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DARE didn't even exist when I was five. I'm not even sure it was there when I was fifteen. Don't make unfounded presumptions to trump up your pet peeve.
I am perfectly well aware that prohibition makes things more profitable. But I also know a bunch of people that drank *brake fluid* to get high. Well . . . I used to. One of them survived, and he is not the person I knew at all. And last I checked, brake fluid is legal and cheap. Just because it's legal, it's not going to resolve the world's problems.
This is called "natural selection", my friend.
In the case of the heroin addicted mother, you are flat wrong. There was no jail time (not for that, anyway), and her family *DID* pay several thousand dollars to get her into rehab. So this was not an addiction that throwing money at made any better, tax money or otherwise. And yes, she got on a methadone program. Which she flat wasn't interested in, and thought it was a better plan to take her seven-year-old to live on the streets of Harlem. The several children she had after that (at least the ones she managed to carry to term) were all addicted to various substances. (Heroin, alcohol & methadone, I believe in that order).
I am fully well aware that the prison system in this country, the drug war in this country in this country and the addiction treatment plans in this country are run by a bunch of ignorant rednecks. It is time you recognised that some people can NOT recreationally use drugs and that legal or otherwise, people do get addicted and destroy their own lives with LEGAL substances (alcohol comes to mind).
None of this is DARE propaganda. It's experience, pattern-recognition, and my own critical thinking WORKING, not refusing to acknowledge the evidence because it doesn't fit with what I want to believe.
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Chemy
Jesus is Lord

Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: OwMyHead]
#8357757 - 05/03/08 01:34 PM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
OwMyHead said: But I also know a bunch of people that drank *brake fluid* to get high. Well . . . I used to.
I used to trip on orange peels and toothpaste.
And it was legal
We should outlaw brake fluid, oranges and toothpaste ASAP!!!!
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: OwMyHead]
#8357919 - 05/03/08 02:29 PM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm not sure what the point of your post was.
You agree that prohibition doesn't stop people from using drugs and that it creates a giant self-sustaining underground market that makes drug kingpins rich while jailing people whose only crime was to hurt THEIR OWN BODY and nobody else's. Yet you still think that prohibition is a good thing for society.
And nevermind that the US has the highest per-capita prison population of any country on Earth with a huge proportion being non-violent pot heads and other drug users who just want to be left alone.
We let murderers and rapists go free to make room for the opium poppy tea drinker whose only crime was to get caught making tea while minding his own business.
That is non-thinking. How about recognizing personal responsibility and the fact that adults have a right to do stoopid things to themselves if they want to, and it's nobody else's fucking business as long as they don't bother anyone else. And for the few who can't control their drug use, give them treatment, not jail, and pay for it with the tax revenue from the legal sale of recreational drugs. This is money that now buys mansions and fancy cars for the drug gangs.
Look around you man. Almost all the problems on this Earth are the result of one person trying to tell another person how to run their lives. Leave people alone to do whatever they want to do to themselves so long as they don't bother anyone else, and the world will be a better place.
Abolishing prohibition is a win-win for everyone. The drugies can kill themselves with drugs if that's what they want, the addicts get treated with the tax windfall that currently goes to the drug cartels, and the overcrowded prisons can be emptied and used to house REAL criminals who hurt other people, not just themselves. How can you not see this in the face of the total failure that is the drug war?
Did you know there is evidence that the drug cartels covertly help fund the political campaigns of anti-drug politicians by making legal donations that appear to come from legitimate sources? It's in their interest to keep drugs illegal and Americans are so brainwashed that they can't see this.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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druqs
ALKALOIDOHOLIC


Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 8,862
Last seen: 4 months, 6 days
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: robbyberto]
#8357928 - 05/03/08 02:31 PM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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its my body
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: OwMyHead]
#8358447 - 05/03/08 05:14 PM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Someone I know was routinely abandoned at home as a child because her mother was a heroin addict.
omeone else I know ended up living on the streets because his mother was a meth addict and lost everything.
This shit happened when the people I knew were under 18. Being abandoned at home or living on the streets as a child has had profound and lasting effects on both of them.
I know people are going to jump to "but those adults weren't 'responsible users'" and while that is true, both of these substances are known to be profoundly addictive. And AFAIK, those don't really do anything for you except completely alter your personality for the worse.
I don't think anyone made the obvious reply here, but:
dum dum DUM
Child abandonment/endangering is already a crime.
So what you must be saying is that either 1) Prohibition reduces these instances permissably, or; 2) Prohibition is a means to punish these people
As to 2) so is child endangerment prosecutions
As to 1) ample evidence shows the relative impotence of prohibition on drug addiction. Drugs are part of our culture, you can't stop it. Moreover, lock up the irresponsible people.
At bare minimum, if the rational you espouse is rational, it should only be a crime to do drugs when you have children. Course the dividing line is impossible, but whatever. At least it would be reasonably tailored to the harm you seek to address, and wouldn't be any more idiotic than the current scheme.
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Chemy
Jesus is Lord

Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: johnm214]
#8358453 - 05/03/08 05:17 PM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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I didn't bother since one statement made was a fabrication and that ruins their credibility for the rest of the statement they made.
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
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tpihkal



Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 2,809
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 1 month, 14 days
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Diploid]
#8358462 - 05/03/08 05:20 PM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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bad poll, choices are way too limited.
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