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MichiaelJackson
Cynic


Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 175
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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Re: Drug Poll [Re: tripp23]
#10663812 - 07/12/09 03:42 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
tripp23 said: yes he did. all those chemicals required to make it were givin to us by god.. werent they.. meth is here for a reason and god helped make it as well.
If you want god in your drugs, keep god out of the discussion. If god isn't in your drugs, there is no reason to discuss it.
Responding to such arguments on the basis of their logical pretense only gives their logical argument validity. It is of no concern on weather or not god had any hand in making any or all drugs and that is the only point that needs to be made.
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Diploid said: Diploid, seriously, you're fighting the good fight but you got to knock it off with the non sequitur/ad homm attacks.
I hear you my friend, but you've only been here a few days. Talk to me again after a few years of arguing with people who have more in common with fundamentalist Muslims who want to inflict their religion on me by force (read: put me in jail at the point of a gun so I conform to their idea of which chemical I should ingest) than with free thinkers, and you'll start flinging ad hominems and logical fallacies too.
Or maybe not. In any case, welcome to the Shroomery. I hope you stick around.
I hear ya dude, it's tough. Just try to stay cognitive of you emotional state when responding. We must be proactive, not reactive. If we let them drag us down to their level of argumentation, we argue no better than them.
I will leave you with "If" by Rudger Kipling, I have found it to give me great inspiration in being able to keep my cool when on the front lines.
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If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you; If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too: If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don't deal in lies, Or being hated don't give way to hating, And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master; If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim, If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two imposters just the same: If you can bear to hear the truths you've spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken, And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools;
If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, And lose, and start again at your beginings And never breathe a word about your loss: If you can force your heart and nerve and senew To serve your turn long after they are gone, And so hold on when there is nothing in you Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch, If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you, If all men count with you, but none too much; If you can fill the unforgiving minute, With sixty seconds' worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son.
-------------------- Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like. Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
Edited by MichiaelJackson (07/12/09 03:48 PM)
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Leahmon
Kernel Sanders



Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 47
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Quote:
drkrobotnik said: god didn't make meth.
exactly.
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Kada
Asha'man


Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,394
Loc: Buckeye
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
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Re: Drug Poll [Re: Leahmon]
#10775127 - 07/31/09 02:37 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Man made god, so man might as well make meth if he wants to. Discusting habbit tho really.
-------------------- ~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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Leahmon
Kernel Sanders



Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 47
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Poll [Re: Kada]
#10775149 - 07/31/09 02:42 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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well we all have our own religious views. Whether or not I believe in god has nothing to do with my standing on meth.
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Kada
Asha'man


Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,394
Loc: Buckeye
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
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Re: Drug Poll [Re: Leahmon]
#10775167 - 07/31/09 02:44 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Leahmon said:
Quote:
drkrobotnik said: god didn't make meth.
exactly.
Then wtf? Really? lol
-------------------- ~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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suburbanned
Stranger

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 2,810
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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I think that there are some drugs that simply shouldn't be legal, yeah responsible use is the ideal but when a drug creates an actual physical pull for you to do it again, and this pull gets harder and harder every time you use, it is not a road to success.
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Quote:
suburbantoker said: I think that there are some drugs that simply shouldn't be legal, yeah responsible use is the ideal but when a drug creates an actual physical pull for you to do it again, and this pull gets harder and harder every time you use, it is not a road to success.
But if you make these drugs illegal, then you've got people who're addicted AND social outcasts. Isn't that worse than being just an addict?
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Leahmon
Kernel Sanders



Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 47
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Poll [Re: Kada]
#10775301 - 07/31/09 03:06 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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it was simply a contradiction to the person that said "god made all drugs". Yeah, god (if you believe in him) made all chemicals, compounds, and living organisms but it bothers me when people use that as an excuse when they aren't even religious.
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Leahmon
Kernel Sanders



Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 47
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Poll [Re: Leahmon]
#10775327 - 07/31/09 03:10 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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and it shouldn't be used as a tool for validation as to why meth should be legal..
that's kind of retarded.
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Kada
Asha'man


Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,394
Loc: Buckeye
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
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Re: Drug Poll [Re: Leahmon]
#10775336 - 07/31/09 03:13 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- ~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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pfxtc
RUEXP?


Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 21,166
Loc:
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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This is a tough question.
It honestly depends,
but it's tough, either all legal or none legal, but I think certain Psychedelics are fine, but some other people may think not. I personally think people running around on PCP legally would be a very bad thing.
I'm 100% for the legalization of marijuana and LSD, but I think alcohol and PCP and meth and crack and coke are big no-no's.
Maybe this turns into a addicting vs non addicting thing.
But on second thought, I'd legalize everything. People are people. Bad people are bad people. Bad people do bad things. Good people don't do bad things. Good people on drugs are still good people, and will be themselves, 99% of the time. Bad people are bad people, and drugs will only make them be themselves. So it's more of a problem with society then a problem with drugs.
Edited by pfxtc (07/31/09 03:19 PM)
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: pfxtc]
#10775413 - 07/31/09 03:28 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Making any drug illegal assumes that people are children who can't control how they act or make rational decisions of their own. That's how it's been up until now, so that's what people are used to. That's what people are used to, so that's how they behave: like children. This attitude, fostered by drug prohibition laws, is itself what creates the need for said laws. It's just a self-reinforcing cycle of childishness.
As long as responsibility is removed from the hands of the people, the people will not act responsibly. If drugs are made legal, suddenly the responsibility isn't on the police to keep you from doing something you'll regret: it's on you. Will it take time for people to figure this out? Absolutely. Should we jump in with both feet and give the responsibility all at once? Probably not. But as long as responsibility for people's health is deferred from the people to their government, it is a guarantee that people will remain irresponsible.
IMO it's complete hypocrisy to say that mushrooms should be legal but meth shouldn't be. They're both psychoactive drugs, they both have risks. Their effects differ and the risks do, too, but it's the same goddamn game. "I want to take substance X which has risks A, B, and C." "I want to take substance Y which has risks D, E, and F." Same thing, man.
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Fort Mushroom
Stranger



Registered: 11/10/07
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: laserpig]
#10775488 - 07/31/09 03:42 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Legailize everything, leave the rest to natural selection
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suburbanned
Stranger

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 2,810
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: laserpig]
#10775630 - 07/31/09 04:10 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
laserpig said:
Quote:
suburbantoker said: I think that there are some drugs that simply shouldn't be legal, yeah responsible use is the ideal but when a drug creates an actual physical pull for you to do it again, and this pull gets harder and harder every time you use, it is not a road to success.
But if you make these drugs illegal, then you've got people who're addicted AND social outcasts. Isn't that worse than being just an addict?
These drugs shouldn't be legal because it is simply making the government an enabler. We've already seen what happens when a heroin addict can't get what they need (whether it be money or heroin) , imagine now that if instead of robbing a dirty heroin dealer they decide to pull out an uzi in a legal drugstore that caters to adults and children alike. Do we want the scrounge of the earth peddling earthly desires killed (as it is now) or pharmacists and young children to be killed by a fiending dope head. Nothing more too ti.
No.Quote:
laserpig said: Making any drug illegal assumes that people are children who can't control how they act or make rational decisions of their own. That's how it's been up until now, so that's what people are used to. That's what people are used to, so that's how they behave: like children. This attitude, fostered by drug prohibition laws, is itself what creates the need for said laws. It's just a self-reinforcing cycle of childishness.
As long as responsibility is removed from the hands of the people, the people will not act responsibly. If drugs are made legal, suddenly the responsibility isn't on the police to keep you from doing something you'll regret: it's on you. Will it take time for people to figure this out? Absolutely. Should we jump in with both feet and give the responsibility all at once? Probably not. But as long as responsibility for people's health is deferred from the people to their government, it is a guarantee that people will remain irresponsible.
IMO it's complete hypocrisy to say that mushrooms should be legal but meth shouldn't be. They're both psychoactive drugs, they both have risks. Their effects differ and the risks do, too, but it's the same goddamn game. "I want to take substance X which has risks A, B, and C." "I want to take substance Y which has risks D, E, and F." Same thing, man.
Actually it isn't hypocritical at all. Look at the physical side effects along with mental side effects of your average meth user compared to the damage done by mushrooms. It isn't hypocrisy, it is super super common sense.
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niteowl
GrandPaw



Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Quote:
suburbantoker said: These drugs shouldn't be legal because it is simply making the government an enabler. We've already seen what happens when a heroin addict can't get what they need (whether it be money or heroin) , imagine now that if instead of robbing a dirty heroin dealer they decide to pull out an uzi in a legal drugstore that caters to adults and children alike. Do we want the scrounge of the earth peddling earthly desires killed (as it is now) or pharmacists and young children to be killed by a fiending dope head. Nothing more too ti.

You act like this doesn't already happen. I know a guy that used to rob only drug stores. Because of the drugs, not the cash.
Quote:
If drugs are made legal, suddenly the responsibility isn't on the police to keep you from doing something you'll regret: it's on you.
As it should be. It isn't the governments job to decide what I choose to consume or not. It is MY decision.
If I act irresponsibly on drugs, then the police get involved. Not before.
Quote:
IMO it's complete hypocrisy to say that mushrooms should be legal but meth shouldn't be. They're both psychoactive drugs, they both have risks. Their effects differ and the risks do, too, but it's the same goddamn game. "I want to take substance X which has risks A, B, and C." "I want to take substance Y which has risks D, E, and F." Same thing, man.
Actually it isn't hypocritical at all. Look at the physical side effects along with mental side effects of your average meth user compared to the damage done by mushrooms. It isn't hypocrisy, it is super super common sense.
There you go again making gross assumptions about something you know little about. I know MANY people that use meth. They have jobs and pay their bills. Just because a few people are addicts should the rest of the population suffer because of their addiction?
I think not.
For those who believe that legalizing all drugs will cause a collapse (or at least a decline) of our society should read up on Portugal
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Leahmon
Kernel Sanders



Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 47
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Quote:
suburbantoker said:
Quote:
laserpig said:
Quote:
suburbantoker said: I think that there are some drugs that simply shouldn't be legal, yeah responsible use is the ideal but when a drug creates an actual physical pull for you to do it again, and this pull gets harder and harder every time you use, it is not a road to success.
But if you make these drugs illegal, then you've got people who're addicted AND social outcasts. Isn't that worse than being just an addict?
These drugs shouldn't be legal because it is simply making the government an enabler. We've already seen what happens when a heroin addict can't get what they need (whether it be money or heroin) , imagine now that if instead of robbing a dirty heroin dealer they decide to pull out an uzi in a legal drugstore that caters to adults and children alike. Do we want the scrounge of the earth peddling earthly desires killed (as it is now) or pharmacists and young children to be killed by a fiending dope head. Nothing more too ti.
No.Quote:
laserpig said: Making any drug illegal assumes that people are children who can't control how they act or make rational decisions of their own. That's how it's been up until now, so that's what people are used to. That's what people are used to, so that's how they behave: like children. This attitude, fostered by drug prohibition laws, is itself what creates the need for said laws. It's just a self-reinforcing cycle of childishness.
As long as responsibility is removed from the hands of the people, the people will not act responsibly. If drugs are made legal, suddenly the responsibility isn't on the police to keep you from doing something you'll regret: it's on you. Will it take time for people to figure this out? Absolutely. Should we jump in with both feet and give the responsibility all at once? Probably not. But as long as responsibility for people's health is deferred from the people to their government, it is a guarantee that people will remain irresponsible.
IMO it's complete hypocrisy to say that mushrooms should be legal but meth shouldn't be. They're both psychoactive drugs, they both have risks. Their effects differ and the risks do, too, but it's the same goddamn game. "I want to take substance X which has risks A, B, and C." "I want to take substance Y which has risks D, E, and F." Same thing, man.
Actually it isn't hypocritical at all. Look at the physical side effects along with mental side effects of your average meth user compared to the damage done by mushrooms. It isn't hypocrisy, it is super super common sense.
I agree. People who use the reasoning that "if one drug's legal, they should all be legal" is completely irrational thinking. Not all drugs are alike (in chemical compounds and in physical and mental side effects). I agree that certain entheogens should be looked upon more leniently by the government but some drugs are illegal for good reason. It is completely far fetched to compare pot/shroooms/lsd to meth/crack
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: niteowl]
#10775957 - 07/31/09 05:08 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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To anyone who supports prohibition:
What you believe is that there are some drugs which people should not do. That is a valid opinion. However, saying that these drugs should therefore be illegal does NOT follow from that belief. Making drugs illegal clearly does not make them unavailable. For evidence, see: the world. All it does is cost taxpayers big $$$$ and make more problems for the people who disagree with you about drug use -- which is something they have every right to do.
Quote:
niteowl said:
Quote:
If drugs are made legal, suddenly the responsibility isn't on the police to keep you from doing something you'll regret: it's on you.
As it should be. It isn't the governments job to decide what I choose to consume or not. It is MY decision.
Yes I was agreeing with that viewpoint.
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Leahmon
Kernel Sanders



Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 47
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: niteowl]
#10775956 - 07/31/09 05:08 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said:
Quote:
suburbantoker said: These drugs shouldn't be legal because it is simply making the government an enabler. We've already seen what happens when a heroin addict can't get what they need (whether it be money or heroin) , imagine now that if instead of robbing a dirty heroin dealer they decide to pull out an uzi in a legal drugstore that caters to adults and children alike. Do we want the scrounge of the earth peddling earthly desires killed (as it is now) or pharmacists and young children to be killed by a fiending dope head. Nothing more too ti.

You act like this doesn't already happen. I know a guy that used to rob only drug stores. Because of the drugs, not the cash.
Quote:
If drugs are made legal, suddenly the responsibility isn't on the police to keep you from doing something you'll regret: it's on you.
As it should be. It isn't the governments job to decide what I choose to consume or not. It is MY decision.
If I act irresponsibly on drugs, then the police get involved. Not before.
Quote:
IMO it's complete hypocrisy to say that mushrooms should be legal but meth shouldn't be. They're both psychoactive drugs, they both have risks. Their effects differ and the risks do, too, but it's the same goddamn game. "I want to take substance X which has risks A, B, and C." "I want to take substance Y which has risks D, E, and F." Same thing, man.
Actually it isn't hypocritical at all. Look at the physical side effects along with mental side effects of your average meth user compared to the damage done by mushrooms. It isn't hypocrisy, it is super super common sense.
There you go again making gross assumptions about something you know little about. I know MANY people that use meth. They have jobs and pay their bills. Just because a few people are addicts should the rest of the population suffer because of their addiction?
I think not.
For those who believe that legalizing all drugs will cause a collapse (or at least a decline) of our society should read up on Portugal
Quote:
niteowl said:
Quote:
suburbantoker said: These drugs shouldn't be legal because it is simply making the government an enabler. We've already seen what happens when a heroin addict can't get what they need (whether it be money or heroin) , imagine now that if instead of robbing a dirty heroin dealer they decide to pull out an uzi in a legal drugstore that caters to adults and children alike. Do we want the scrounge of the earth peddling earthly desires killed (as it is now) or pharmacists and young children to be killed by a fiending dope head. Nothing more too ti.

You act like this doesn't already happen. I know a guy that used to rob only drug stores. Because of the drugs, not the cash.
Quote:
If drugs are made legal, suddenly the responsibility isn't on the police to keep you from doing something you'll regret: it's on you.
As it should be. It isn't the governments job to decide what I choose to consume or not. It is MY decision.
If I act irresponsibly on drugs, then the police get involved. Not before.
Quote:
IMO it's complete hypocrisy to say that mushrooms should be legal but meth shouldn't be. They're both psychoactive drugs, they both have risks. Their effects differ and the risks do, too, but it's the same goddamn game. "I want to take substance X which has risks A, B, and C." "I want to take substance Y which has risks D, E, and F." Same thing, man.
Actually it isn't hypocritical at all. Look at the physical side effects along with mental side effects of your average meth user compared to the damage done by mushrooms. It isn't hypocrisy, it is super super common sense.
There you go again making gross assumptions about something you know little about. I know MANY people that use meth. They have jobs and pay their bills. Just because a few people are addicts should the rest of the population suffer because of their addiction?
I think not.
For those who believe that legalizing all drugs will cause a collapse (or at least a decline) of our society should read up on Portugal
Do you mean suffer in the sense that because their drug and our drug (assuming you're not a meth head) is grouped together and we get the short end of the straw?
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niteowl
GrandPaw



Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Leahmon]
#10776102 - 07/31/09 05:32 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Leahmon said: Do you mean suffer in the sense that because their drug and our drug (assuming you're not a meth head) is grouped together and we get the short end of the straw?
I mean that our entire society suffers because of the war on drugs......not because of addicts.
The money that is spent on the drug war could be spent on education or health care.
It's a waste of resources to try and enforce drug laws.
Do you believe that addicts get better care from a prison guard or a Dr?
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Leahmon
Kernel Sanders



Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 47
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: niteowl]
#10776160 - 07/31/09 05:42 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said:
Quote:
Leahmon said: Do you mean suffer in the sense that because their drug and our drug (assuming you're not a meth head) is grouped together and we get the short end of the straw?
I mean that our entire society suffers because of the war on drugs......not because of addicts.
The money that is spent on the drug war could be spent on education or health care.
It's a waste of resources to try and enforce drug laws.
Do you believe that addicts get better care from a prison guard or a Dr?
i'm completely on board with what you're saying. all our laws do is confine and inevitably release drug dealers/users without any help. On the other hand, a lot of misdemeanors get dropped because the person chose to go to rehab instead. But it is pretty redundant to have rehab readily available to people who can't even afford it. That shit is expensive
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