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laserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: niteowl]
#10779755 - 08/01/09 12:03 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Something that ought to be pointed out is that if meth were legalized, that doesn't mean every corner store would suddenly start carrying it. I feel like prohibition advocates make the assumption that "legal drugs" = "drugs everywhere."
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Leahmon
Kernel Sanders



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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: niteowl]
#10780992 - 08/01/09 04:28 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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There you go again making gross assumptions about something that has NEVER happened.
Every country that has decriminalized drugs noticed that there was NO INCREASE IN DRUG ABUSE.
You argument holds no water.
Your fear mongering has NO BASIS IN REALITY.
NONE WHAT SO EVER.
So please stop using the same tired argument that drug abuse will go up when all evidence points to the exact opposite.
I have shown proof that legalizing drugs does NOT cause an increase in drug abuse.
Please show me evidence that drug use would go up if drugs were legalized.
Not your 'opinion'. I want evidence that your theory is true.
well i'm sorry that you got so offended by my opinion 
You may be right about your "proof", except I never said there were statistics that proved me ABSOLUTELY RIGHT and you ABSOLUTELY WRONG. I was simply telling you my personal opinion and apparently we're not allowed to do that peacefully here?
I think you use that "proof" as justification for your argument, which I feel is selfish. This whole argument is about you wanting to smoke meth without judgment or persecution? Are you really getting so offended because I don't think people should be allowed to legally smoke it? Are you kidding me?
You want drugs to be legal, duh, I would love for my drugs to be legal. They don't harm me or anyone else. But I've had friends/acquaintances beaten up, shot at, kidnapped, and sometimes killed over meth and crack. Maybe legalizing it would make no change in drug violence or death, but I have a hard time believing it wouldn't increase production and sale. You can think I'm "fear mongering" all you want but I'm not fucking talking about most drugs. I am almost 100% JUST talking about crack and meth. Get the fuck over it dude, we have different opinions roll with it
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Leahmon
Kernel Sanders



Registered: 07/30/09
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: laserpig]
#10781016 - 08/01/09 04:32 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
laserpig said: Something that ought to be pointed out is that if meth were legalized, that doesn't mean every corner store would suddenly start carrying it. I feel like prohibition advocates make the assumption that "legal drugs" = "drugs everywhere."
I agree and I think in my first post I came out looking like that's what I believed, but it's not. I've never been good with analyzing and explaining every nook and cranny of my views.
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niteowl
GrandPaw



Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Leahmon]
#10781184 - 08/01/09 05:04 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Leahmon said: well i'm sorry that you got so offended by my opinion 
You may be right about your "proof", except I never said there were statistics that proved me ABSOLUTELY RIGHT and you ABSOLUTELY WRONG. I was simply telling you my personal opinion and apparently we're not allowed to do that peacefully here?
You are entitled to your opinion, just be prepared to have you opinion shot down, if it has no bearing on real life.
When you make leaps of logic that have no bearing on real life. Expect people to call you out on it.
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I think you use that "proof" as justification for your argument, which I feel is selfish.

People have been using proof to back up their argument forever.
Don't be upset that your opinion is wrong. 
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This whole argument is about you wanting to smoke meth without judgment or persecution? Are you really getting so offended because I don't think people should be allowed to legally smoke it? Are you kidding me?
Just because you choose not to use it doesn't mean that other people shouldn't be able to use it.
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You want drugs to be legal, duh, I would love for my drugs to be legal. They don't harm me or anyone else. But I've had friends/acquaintances beaten up, shot at, kidnapped, and sometimes killed over meth and crack. Maybe legalizing it would make no change in drug violence or death, but I have a hard time believing it wouldn't increase production and sale. You can think I'm "fear mongering" all you want but I'm not fucking talking about most drugs. I am almost 100% JUST talking about crack and meth. Get the fuck over it dude, we have different opinions roll with it 
All the violence related to drug use is caused by the dealers.
Not the users.
If drugs were legal then the criminal element is taken out of the equation.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Leahmon]
#10781199 - 08/01/09 05:08 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Leahmon said: I think you use that "proof" as justification for your argument, which I feel is selfish.
Ah, yes, how selfish of him to use facts. It's really quite unsporting.
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This whole argument is about you wanting to smoke meth without judgment or persecution? Are you really getting so offended because I don't think people should be allowed to legally smoke it? Are you kidding me?
You are trying to tell this man what he should and should not be allowed to do ... and you expect him to just take it lying down? You're surprised that he might harbor resentment towards you when you suggest that he should be persecuted for something he wants to do?
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Leahmon said: I've never been good with analyzing and explaining every nook and cranny of my views.
Perhaps if you took the time to attempt just such an analysis, you'd find true what we've been trying to communicate for several pages: that your argument holds less water than you think. Why stick resolutely to an opinion that you yourself admit not to have fully reasoned out?
What you need to understand is that by supporting drug prohibition you are implicitly stating that you are qualified to determine what should go into my body, and that I myself am not. That is A: incredibly offensive to me, and B: very presumptuous of you. You wouldn't want your child (should you have one) to smoke meth. That makes sense. Being that child's parent, you would be within your rights to restrict their access to the drug; but we are not children, and we are not your responsibility. We are thinking adults capable of making our own life choices, and you have no right to make our choices for us.
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ravenshield420
Stranger

Registered: 05/10/09
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Meth , Heroin , Crack-Cocaine , Cocaine , PCP , E , opiates , pills if i was president i would sentence you to life in prison if you use any of these drugs.
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niteowl
GrandPaw



Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Quote:
ravenshield420 said: Meth , Heroin , Crack-Cocaine , Cocaine , PCP , E , opiates , pills if i was president i would sentence you to life in prison if you use any of these drugs.

Good thing you'll never be president
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Leahmon
Kernel Sanders



Registered: 07/30/09
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: niteowl]
#10781555 - 08/01/09 06:22 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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well.. you guys proved me wrong. meth and crack should be legal because it's our personal liberties
you're right, we should be able to ingest what we want. it doesn't matter if it could harm bodies or kill people
i see exactly where you're coming from. go ahead and give me another big story as to why i'm closed minded inexperienced and wrong
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Leahmon
Kernel Sanders



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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Leahmon]
#10781575 - 08/01/09 06:28 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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and i'm not saying that he shouldn't have the right to ingest whatever he wants into his body. you guys got all emotional and super offended and jumped on my case because i don't think meth should be legal. that doesn't AT ALL represent my views on other drugs, drug crime laws, or moral ambiguity. So stop making retarded assumptions as to who I am or what I believe.
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Chubba
Vape hungry

Registered: 07/05/07
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Leahmon]
#10781584 - 08/01/09 06:29 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I wish all the various opioids were legal so I could self medicate.
I hate getting sick, hurt and in massive pain... you have to spend money, time and effort trying to convince a doctor to give you fucking 30mg codeine pills.
CODEINE DOESNT DO SHIT FUCKER!
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Leahmon
Kernel Sanders



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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: niteowl]
#10781589 - 08/01/09 06:31 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Just because you choose not to use it doesn't mean that other people shouldn't be able to use it.
I'm making gross assumptions? Do I have to make a list for you of all the drugs I've done for you to understand that I'm not a biased opinion?
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Leahmon]
#10781631 - 08/01/09 06:38 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Leahmon said: and i'm not saying that he shouldn't have the right to ingest whatever he wants into his body.
Yes, you are. That is precisely what you are saying.
Forgive the blunt language, but I really want you to understand this: When you say "meth should be illegal," what that actually means is "nobody should be allowed to take meth." They are the same statement. That is what "illegal" means. If something is illegal, that means nobody has the right to do it.
Therefore, what you are saying when you say meth should be illegal is exactly "you do not have the right to take meth."
At this point you have two options: either admit your error, or take responsibility for the fact that you are trying to dictate to us what our rights are and are not. Pick one or shut the fuck up.
Edited by laserpig (08/01/09 06:42 PM)
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Dug a Sprogie
eeeeee



Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 960
Loc: California
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: laserpig]
#10781643 - 08/01/09 06:41 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
laserpig said:
Quote:
Leahmon said: and i'm not saying that he shouldn't have the right to ingest whatever he wants into his body.
Yes, you are. That is precisely what you are saying.
Forgive the blunt language, but I really want you to understand this: When you say "meth should be illegal," what that actually means is "nobody should be allowed to take meth." They are the same statement. That is what "illegal" means. If something is illegal, that means nobody has the right to do it.
Therefore, what you are saying when you say meth should be illegal is exactly "you do not have the right to take meth."
At this point you have two options: either admit your error, or take responsibility for the fact that you are trying to dictate to us what our rights are and aren't. Pick one or shut the fuck up.
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Leahmon
Kernel Sanders



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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: laserpig]
#10781678 - 08/01/09 06:49 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes, you are. That is precisely what you are saying.
You are completely misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying meth should be illegal because nobody should be allowed to use it, I say it because I feel like it would keep numbers and naivety down. I feel like I'm being argued with because I simply feel empathy towards people who are dying and ruining lives over this. It's very annoying for me to have to justify my compassion for people. I smoke crack recreationally all the time and I am not addicted to it. Nor do I steal, fight, or spend loads of money for it. It is simply something I occasionally do on sporadic weekends with friends. Yes, I feel I should have the right to do these things by my own personal standard and freedom, but I can't help but to feel like it wouldn't do much good if it were all legal. Just because my life or yours hasn't been ruined over either of the two doesn't mean it's not happening. Drug users are drug users regardless of illegality but I feel it being illegal keeps the message that it's physically and mentally dangerous strong in peoples' minds. Can you understand where I'm coming from for a second?
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Leahmon
Kernel Sanders



Registered: 07/30/09
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Quote:
ravenshield420 said: Meth , Heroin , Crack-Cocaine , Cocaine , PCP , E , opiates , pills if i was president i would sentence you to life in prison if you use any of these drugs.
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niteowl
GrandPaw



Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Leahmon]
#10781736 - 08/01/09 06:59 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Leahmon said: You are completely misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying meth should be illegal because nobody should be allowed to use it, I say it because I feel like it would keep numbers and naivety down. I feel like I'm being argued with because I simply feel empathy towards people who are dying and ruining lives over this. It's very annoying for me to have to justify my compassion for people.
No one is saying you shouldn't have compassion for some one who is addicted to a drug.
We are simply stating that it isn't the governments job to tell me what I can and cannot consume.
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I smoke crack recreationally all the time and I am not addicted to it. Nor do I steal, fight, or spend loads of money for it. It is simply something I occasionally do on sporadic weekends with friends. Yes, I feel I should have the right to do these things by my own personal standard and freedom, but I can't help but to feel like it wouldn't do much good if it were all legal.
So what good is coming from keeping them illegal?
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Just because my life or yours hasn't been ruined over either of the two doesn't mean it's not happening. Drug users are drug users regardless of illegality but I feel it being illegal keeps the message that it's physically and mentally dangerous strong in peoples' minds. Can you understand where I'm coming from for a second?
No I cannot understand where you are coming from at all.
You seem to think that by making drugs legal that people will believe that they are safe.
That kind of thinking is borderline retarded.
Do you think alcohol is safe? What about cigarettes? Fast food?
Just because something is legal does not mean that it is healthy. Only a fool would make that assumption.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Leahmon]
#10781764 - 08/01/09 07:04 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Leahmon said: You are completely misunderstanding what I'm saying.
No, I'm not. You're saying meth should be illegal. I'm trying to remind you what legality actually means. If you say something should be illegal, you are making a statement about personal liberties. That is the purpose of the law: to define our rights. You cannot say that you want something to be illegal AND that we have the right to do that something. Linguistically, that is nonsense. It's an oxymoron, a meaningless self-contradiction.
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I smoke crack recreationally all the time and I am not addicted to it.
By saying that in the context of your stance on prohibition, you are saying that you deserve to go to jail for what you do. You are also undercutting your own argument by proving that prohibition doesn't stop people from using drugs.
Your position is a mass of contradictions and incomplete thinking -- please do all of us a favor and never vote.
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Ima Trooper
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: laserpig]
#10781804 - 08/01/09 07:13 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
laserpig said:
Quote:
Leahmon said: You are completely misunderstanding what I'm saying.
No, I'm not. You're saying meth should be illegal. I'm trying to remind you what legality actually means. If you say something should be illegal, you are making a statement about personal liberties. That is the purpose of the law: to define our rights. You cannot say that you want something to be illegal AND that we have the right to do that something. Linguistically, that is nonsense. It's an oxymoron, a meaningless self-contradiction.
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I smoke crack recreationally all the time and I am not addicted to it.
By saying that in the context of your stance on prohibition, you are saying that you deserve to go to jail for what you do. You are also undercutting your own argument by proving that prohibition doesn't stop people from using drugs.
Your position is a mass of contradictions and incomplete thinking -- please do all of us a favor and never vote.
What a lot of these people in power never seem to realize, is that most people have experimented with illegal substances at least ONCE in their lives, yet if the laws were able to be enforced with a 100% "criminal" catch rate, MOST PEOPLE IN OUR GOVERNMENT WOULD BE IN JAIL. George W. Bush: in jail. Obama: jail. THESE PEOPLE ARE (WERE) OUR PRESIDENTS OF THE NATION. Anyone who ever tried any illegal substance EVER: jail.
VIP daddies not withstanding, if they had been caught and prosecuted like they say that everyone SHOULD BE, they would never have been able to be the president. You know how hard it is to get a REGULAR job with a felony?!
Yet that is EXACTLY what they strive for, a 100% catch rate. They'll never get it, thats impossible of course, but that isn't the point.
-------------------- "Its moving of its own accord...and I like that in a shirt!" - Me, tripping. deCypher said: Schizophrenia beats dining alone, you know.
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Leahmon
Kernel Sanders



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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: niteowl]
#10781818 - 08/01/09 07:17 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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No one is saying you shouldn't have compassion for some one who is addicted to a drug.
We are simply stating that it isn't the governments job to tell me what I can and cannot consume.
I get that but I would sooner keep other people safe from what may or may not happen to them before I advocate that something I can already obtain easily be legal to me. I'm not saying it's my preferred scenario, but it's the ultimatum in this discussion.
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So what good is coming from keeping them illegal?
I don't know, maybe nothing? Maybe the fact that it's illegal has only kept three people from trying it. Maybe because they never tried it (for fear of arrest), they never kept using. And maybe 10 years down the line they didn't have two kids under the age of 7 being held by the DCFS because they refused to change their diaper cuz they were too busy getting fucked in the next room.
If it only keeps a few people from -maybe, maybe not- road, that's fine with me. Try to understand that I'm not advocating the relinquishment of personal freedom, I'm simply setting it aside for a moment because I feel something else is more important.
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You seem to think that by making drugs legal that people will believe that they are safe.
Have you really never met any one like that? There are tons of stupid people in this country that don't understand their body, the law, and drugs. There are naive people out there who straight up believe everything the government/laws tell them. It IS retarded, but it's a fact.
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Do you think alcohol is safe? What about cigarettes? Fast food?
Once again, completely irrelevant to the short-term and long-term effects of meth use. Alcohol, smokes, and fast food are no less dangerous than shrooms, pot, etc, but the day that I compare a hamburger to a bag of meth is the day I fall off my roof.
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niteowl
GrandPaw



Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Leahmon]
#10781837 - 08/01/09 07:21 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Alcohol, smokes, and fast food are no less dangerous than shrooms, pot, etc,

You really are clueless.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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