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Leahmon
Kernel Sanders



Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 47
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: laserpig]
#10781861 - 08/01/09 07:25 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
No, I'm not. You're saying meth should be illegal. I'm trying to remind you what legality actually means. If you say something should be illegal, you are making a statement about personal liberties. That is the purpose of the law: to define our rights. You cannot say that you want something to be illegal AND that we have the right to do that something. Linguistically, that is nonsense. It's an oxymoron, a meaningless self-contradiction.
Well you obviously aren't listening to me. Read my other posts.
Quote:
By saying that in the context of your stance on prohibition, you are saying that you deserve to go to jail for what you do. You are also undercutting your own argument by proving that prohibition doesn't stop people from using drugs.
Your position is a mass of contradictions and incomplete thinking -- please do all of us a favor and never vote.
I have already stated that I completely disagree with the drug crime laws in this country and I feel illegality should send a message rather than sending someone to jail. Not gonna repeat myself. I also already stated that drug users will use drugs regardless of legality. But we also don't know how many people the laws have kept from drug addiction either.
Please do me a favor and quit trying to contradict my apparent contradictions as if you know what the fuck I'm talking about. You're not going to make me doubt my opinions, even if I may not express them as aggressively as you do. I'm not saying you guys are completely wrong and I never jumped on you, but you were so quick to jump on me because I disagreed with you. That's gross.
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Leahmon
Kernel Sanders



Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 47
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: niteowl]
#10781882 - 08/01/09 07:28 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, alright. You guys can go to sleep tonight having the satisfaction that you beat me in an online argument. Congratulations, you were complete assholes to someone who was only trying to express their compassion for the unfortunate pool of people who have fucked up their lives.
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niteowl
GrandPaw



Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Leahmon]
#10781930 - 08/01/09 07:35 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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You were just as much an ass as anyone else in this thread.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them an ass.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Leahmon
Kernel Sanders



Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 47
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: niteowl]
#10781984 - 08/01/09 07:45 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said: You were just as much an ass as anyone else in this thread.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them an ass.
I didn't say that nor do I think that. You guys know me so well..
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: niteowl]
#10782032 - 08/01/09 07:50 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm gonna lose my fucking mind. This is busfhgandgadigad.
I honestly had not considered that you were in favor of decriminalization, because to me decriminalization is something that doesn't even process. It's stupidity, as far as I understand it. "You don't have the right to do this but we're not going to do anything if you do." That's fucking insanity. Completely ludicrous.
I suppose I may owe you an apology for being so aggressive when my understanding of your argument was incomplete, but somehow I can't feel it. If I typed "I'm sorry," I would be lying.
The bottom line is that I still believe that you have no right to tell other adults what substances should be available to them. The fact that you are not pro-jail does change things somewhat, but I see it as a cop-out. Illegality without punishment is meaningless. It's not really illegality.
Adults should be allowed to do what they want unless it hurts others. That's what I believe. I cannot conceive of any valid exception.
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Slavich
Full-time mad dude



Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 269
Loc: Tasmania
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Drugs should be illegal because it's easier to control drugs than stupidity.
I don't want to pay rehab/pension/centerlink/jail/whatever to people who have lost touch with society.
-------------------- If every day is the same as the last, why live to see tomorrow?
 
Edited by Slavich (08/01/09 08:10 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Slavich]
#10782288 - 08/01/09 08:25 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't want to pay rehab/pension/centerlink/jail/whatever to people who have lost touch with society.
You already pay for all that now. Keeping drugs illegal doesn't stop people from using them anyway and ending up in expensive prisons or rehab on your dime.
What keeping drugs illegal DOES do is make drugs very expensive so they can lavishly fund terrorists like the taliban and violent drug gangs in the US and in Mexico.
On the other hand, legalizing a regulated and taxed recreational drug industry will produce enough tax revenue to educate people about the dangers of drugs and pay for their treatment if they decide to use drugs anyway.
And icing on the cake, legalization will instantly bankrupt the taliban and the drug gangs and make space in prison for REAL criminals who hurt people. You know, those criminals who currently have to be released early because the prisons are overfilled with adults who decide to put things in their body that some people don't like.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Slavich]
#10782294 - 08/01/09 08:26 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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From what I've seen it looks like it's impossible to control either, really. I could get my hands on some cocaine in less than a week despite the fact that I have never sought it out in my life -- sorry, but that's not a controlled substance.
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Slavich
Full-time mad dude



Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 269
Loc: Tasmania
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: laserpig]
#10782314 - 08/01/09 08:28 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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You already pay for all that now. Keeping drugs illegal doesn't stop people from using them anyway and ending up in expensive prisons or rehab on your dime.
Pretty sure if drugs were legalized, there would be a MASSIVE increse in these events. It would be illogical to think otherwise.
-All the kids that can't afford drugs will be able to. -All the kids that can't find drugs will be able to.
-------------------- If every day is the same as the last, why live to see tomorrow?
 
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Slavich]
#10782412 - 08/01/09 08:45 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Regulation makes drugs less available to minors than illegality. See: alcohol.
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niteowl
GrandPaw



Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Slavich]
#10782505 - 08/01/09 08:57 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Slavich said: You already pay for all that now. Keeping drugs illegal doesn't stop people from using them anyway and ending up in expensive prisons or rehab on your dime.
Pretty sure if drugs were legalized, there would be a MASSIVE increse in these events. It would be illogical to think otherwise.
Bullshit.
Look at Portugal.
They decriminalized ALL drugs and they haven't noticed an increase in drug use. In fact there has been a reduction in drug use among teens.
source
Quote:
-All the kids that can't afford drugs will be able to. -All the kids that can't find drugs will be able to.
See thats where you are mistaken.
It is easier for a kid to get his hands on weed or crack than it is for them to get alcohol or tobacco....because weed and crack are unregulated.
The people that are selling drugs now can (and do) sell them to who ever has the money for them. Age be damned.
Isn't it safer to legalize and regulate drugs, so kids don't get involved in them?
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Slavich]
#10782837 - 08/01/09 09:50 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Pretty sure if drugs were legalized, there would be a MASSIVE increse in these events. It would be illogical to think otherwise.
What's illogical is that you haven't read the link posted many times so far in this thread to the fact that Portugal legalized drugs and did not see the "massive" increase you're making up.
The people who are going to use drugs are already using them. Legalizing will not change who uses drugs because they're already easy to get. Portugal is a glaring demonstration of this fact. Read the link. It's been posted a dozen times in this thread.
-All the kids that can't afford drugs will be able to. -All the kids that can't find drugs will be able to.
Wrong again. Kids around here get stoned and roll and tweek instead of get drunk because drug dealers don't check ID and don't care who they sell to. Legalizing will instantly put drug dealers out of business.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Diploid]
#10782907 - 08/01/09 10:04 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Here, lemme help you with those links:
Drug use by minors in Portugal plunges after decriminalization http://txfx.net/2009/04/08/drug-use-in-portugal-plunges-after-decriminalization/
Here's another one:
between 2001 and 2006 in Portugal, rates of lifetime use of any illegal drug among seventh through ninth graders fell from 14.1% to 10.6%; drug use in older teens also declined. Lifetime heroin use among 16-to-18-year-olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8% http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html?xid=newsletter-europe-weekly
Form opinions with facts, not knee-jerk emotions.
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niteowl
GrandPaw



Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Diploid]
#10783020 - 08/01/09 10:27 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have posted those same links already in this thread.
It is amazing to me that there are drug users that believe that drugs should remain illegal
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: niteowl]
#10783256 - 08/01/09 11:15 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Seriously, it's like ... accidental masochism.
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Slavich
Full-time mad dude



Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 269
Loc: Tasmania
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: niteowl]
#10783304 - 08/01/09 11:25 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Wrong again. Kids around here get stoned and roll and tweek instead of get drunk because drug dealers don't check ID and don't care who they sell to. Legalizing will instantly put drug dealers out of business.
I think you guys are skipping past some logic here.
The reason kids get their hands on crack or weed as opposed to alcohol or tobacco, is because they both incur the same penalties. And if I had a choice between drinking or smoking weed, with the same consequences, I'd smoke weed.
I stand by my opinion that it is easier to regulate drugs than stupidity, and that it should be kept this way until another alternative comes along.
Yes, in a perfect world, drug legalization is a great idea. So is communism. Both will not work in a real world scenario due to human flaws.
-------------------- If every day is the same as the last, why live to see tomorrow?
 
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niteowl
GrandPaw



Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Slavich]
#10783360 - 08/01/09 11:41 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Slavich said: I think you guys are skipping past some logic here.
The reason kids get their hands on crack or weed as opposed to alcohol or tobacco, is because they both incur the same penalties.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
Kids can get weed and crack, not because of any possible penalty. But because they are regulated by drug dealers.
Quote:
Yes, in a perfect world, drug legalization is a great idea. So is communism. Both will not work in a real world scenario due to human flaws.

Did you not read the information provided about Portugal? That one article blows your 'opinion' away.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Slavich
Full-time mad dude



Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 269
Loc: Tasmania
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: niteowl]
#10783428 - 08/01/09 11:58 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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In Portugal the sale and trafficking of illicit drugs is still a crime. So you can't just walk to a shop and buy some Heroin or Acid. This is where the problem will be. This is what will increase drug use due to making drugs more available.
-------------------- If every day is the same as the last, why live to see tomorrow?
 
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niteowl
GrandPaw



Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Slavich]
#10783463 - 08/02/09 12:04 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
In Portugal the sale and trafficking of illicit drugs is still a crime. So you can't just walk to a shop and buy some Heroin or Acid. This is where the problem will be. This is what will increase drug use due to making drugs more available.
More assumptions.
Do you have any proof of your 'theory' Or is it just a 'gut feeling'
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Slavich]
#10783480 - 08/02/09 12:06 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Why does nobody seem to realize that if drugs were legalized, they could be regulated however we want?
Marijuana is schedule one. Drugs don't get more illegal than that. Yet marijuana was easier to find in high school than alcohol. Don't tell me you don't remember those days: shit, you could just go out to the parking lot and buy pot almost any time of day at my school, and I went to a perfectly average public school. That's regulation? That's protecting us from dangerous drugs? No, that's a complete lack of regulation. Alcohol is legal and regulated, and it is far harder for kids to get their hands on.
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