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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7469395 -

I'm sorry, I meant to respond to vigilant_mind. I have to get used to this posting style still.

If there's anything repulsive to us, anything that causes us to quake with the injustice of it, it is evil. We may misgauge evil or believe it comes from a source that it actually doesn't, but the feeling itself is regarding evil itself. It's neither totally objective or subjective, it just is. Or maybe it's both.

I'm just saying, we wouldn't hate evil if we didn't believe there was a good higher than it.


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald

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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7470337 -

stellar renegade said:
I'm just saying, we wouldn't hate evil if we didn't believe there was a good higher than it.


Do you mean good as in moral good, the good that equals and opposes evil in the universe? Or are you referring to the good as being a supreme being?

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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: hummermania00]
    #7470388 -

hummermania00 said:
Icelander said:
This is what asylums are for,


Asylum... Forum... is there a difference?


Only in degree.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: Icelander]
    #7470420 -

God created evil so that he could discover that he was good.

The objection comes from people in chapel perilous / dark night of the soul or those who scoffishly sit around in lower human consciousness making fun of everything, the so called swine you are not to give pearls to.

Once you solidify your presence in the higher dimensions and return to Christ you will be so glad you did, because you are NOT God you are just this tiny frail silly human-thing that IS GOD

and the difference is so vast, God is tiny fragments so that something so very very empty can be filled so much that to the vantage point of this filled vessel there is heavenly bliss in comparison.

you can like this and disagree but if you are striving for freedom from suffering this is HOW WEDO IT as human beings, you can't say

"I just can't believe I'm human!!!!!"

transcending hell (planet Earth) to get to heaven, you will be a very happy person.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

Edited by leery11 (09/30/07 03:13 PM)

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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: leery11]
    #7470436 -

hey leery, where have you been? your presence has been missed


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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: leery11]
    #7470452 -

God created evil so that he could discover that he was good.


Please tell me how I can get a PR job for possibly non-existent entities?  I really get a kick out of posters here who claim to know the mind and desires of the supposedly most powerful entity in the Universe.

Some might call this delusional.:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: Icelander]
    #7470467 -

Without the forgetting, there would be no remembering :yinyang:


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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7470475 -

Right.:monkeydance::crazy2::whacker:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #7470483 -

If god is fucking us in the ass, it's because we want it.

A couple years ago, I reasoned out the same thing you and others have.

1- God knows all that is/was/and will be.
2- God created Lucifer to be one of his primary angels.
3- Since God knows all, God knew Satan would rebel and tempt people into hell.
4- Not only did he know it, he would have had to intentionally create Satan for the express purpose of unleashing evil upon the world.
5- Because the creation of Satan was premeditated, God IS Satan.

But seriously, God as a controller concept has worn thin for me. If you're a starving baby in some third world country, you still have the desire to live, to not give up, to continue breathing and find some kind of joy inside. To fight.

If they can fight until they die, everyone else has no excuse. It's time to take life by the balls. If we don't do it, it won't get done. Being miserable and living in hell is a choice. For some people, it's appropriate. It's what needed for them.

I don't have a cushy life in heaven to look forward to. I don't have the direct experience needed to believe reincarnation is real. As far as I know, this life is it for my ego. I'm not going to waste it. I wasted enough time to know that wasting time is not "what's for dinner".

I can create hell by lieing to myself. It dulls the pain, but the balance is still due. I can create heaven by being truthful with myself, exploring my ego deficiencies with an open heart and a calm mind.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: Rahz]
    #7470486 -

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: Rahz]
    #7470745 -

Nice. I agree.

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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #7472208 -

vigilant_mind said:
Do you mean good as in moral good, the good that equals and opposes evil in the universe? Or are you referring to the good as being a supreme being?


Well I believe that the essence of good is a supreme being, but that isn't even necessary for my argument. All I'm simply saying is that evil (if the word is referring to some kind of definciency, weakness or twistedness) is a counterfeit for wholeness, completion and pure essence, and the latter potentially swallows up the former by virtue of its existence. The only other kind of usage for the word 'evil' would be, I guess, the anecdotal usage such as 'evil is so cool, dude'.

I don't believe in a dualistic morality. If good and evil balance each other out, then they are equal, and good is not any better than evil. In that case, they are either both good or both evil, and to call them 'good' and 'evil', respectively, is to create confusion linguistically speaking.


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald

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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7472248 -

Quote:
I don't believe in a dualistic morality. If good and evil balance each other out, then they are equal, and good is not any better than evil. In that case, they are either both good or both evil, and to call them 'good' and 'evil', respectively, is to create confusion linguistically speaking.


So you would see no difference in having consensual sex with a girl you love versus having your bones broken by an enemy? Clearly there must be some division of terms here...

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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #7472263 -

This belongs to personal interpretation... considering the fact that there are masochists in this world. And also it must be taken to consideration, that, even if he finds it "evil" to get his ass kicked, there are some people who might enjoy the news and label it as being "good".


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7472278 -

what god

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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #7472311 -

I like the concept of yin and yang. you need one to have the other.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7472331 -

MushroomTrip said:
This belongs to personal interpretation... considering the fact that there are masochists in this world. And also it must be taken to consideration, that, even if he finds it "evil" to get his ass kicked, there are some people who might enjoy the news and label it as being "good".


This is true. Yet, it is necessary that we have different words to convey the nature of different experiences we as human beings have. Or you could just go about referring to all things as mark-lar...lol

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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #7472357 -

It is good and necessary to do so, but further elaboration is always required. It is required because of education. Because, by the way things are going on right now, people tend to have an exclusive view about life. So if you tell them them "good" they see Jesus spreading blessing and if you say "bad" they see devils all around :lol:
Making a deeper analysis, each time there is required, not only that helps us see the quantities of positive and negative effects and in extent make us able to make wiser decisions, but it also trains our minds and gives us a much adequate and complete view on life. This is what philosophy does.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #7472417 -

vigilant_mind said:
MushroomTrip said:
This belongs to personal interpretation... considering the fact that there are masochists in this world. And also it must be taken to consideration, that, even if he finds it "evil" to get his ass kicked, there are some people who might enjoy the news and label it as being "good".


This is true. Yet, it is necessary that we have different words to convey the nature of different experiences we as human beings have. Or you could just go about referring to all things as mark-lar...lol



hahaha true true.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Re: Yes, God created evil [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7472891 -

Quote:
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."


Let's make this more clear: (To be sure, we are presupposing that God actually exists). God created the universe and all things that subsist within it. Right. Thus, God created Satan, sin, and evil altogether as we know it, knowing ahead of time what the consequence of his creating these entities and non-entities would be. Free will is truly irrelevant here. Hence, it is God's fault that all good and bad things have occurred within this universe.


That's a pretty rash judgement. The above verse you quoted has nothing to do with spiritual evil. The word evil is used in this verse in the sense of harm. God does harm. God wounds and God heals. God created the physical universe, but there is nothing intrinsically evil in the physical universe. God never created sin, if we presuppose that God created sin then he would not be righteous and his hatred for sin and want for a world full of peace and love makes no sense. If someone gives you life knowing that you have the choice to do wrong or do right, that's your choice and your responsibility to do right and if you sin it's your fault and noone elses. God gave people life and the freedom to choose right or wrong. It would be wrong to not create us simply because some people make bad choices. God is not a sinner, you are. So take responsibility for your own actions.

Quote:
Perhaps I should leave this conundrum up to Epicurus: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but unable? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Then why call him God?”


Of course God can prevent evil. He doesn't because he allows the natural consequences of things to happen, and because if he judges us all for sin then we would all be destroyed a long time ago. God is patient, and he has chosen to save the final judgment until the end. But he does work in human affairs to this very day, and he establishes justice and government.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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