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Re: Theravada Buddhism [Re: The Crow]
    #7145842 -

Silversoul said:
Buddhists do not believe in God. I suggest you check your sources before spouting such ignorance.



That may be true for western buddhism, but definitely not buddhism as a whole. Gods are all over the scriptures and accounts of the buddhas life, especially his birth, enlightenment, and death.
when it comes to reincarnation, buddhists believe that you can be reborn as a god in other dimensions of bliss as or demons in "hell" or animals, all kinds of stuff. the thing to remember is that even gods and demons are subject to suffering and the wheel of rebirth and all that.



The Crow said:
Its funny how Buddha is considered such a great person because of his philosophies. I don't deny that he was a great teacher with great ideas, but remember people, he abandonned his wife and young children to seek enlightenment in the mountains. This strikes me as an odd move.....A selfish move, in fact.
Why would he do that, I wonder? Was his own enlightenment worth more than he being a provider and father to his family?



well, forsaking family and society is fairly common for hindus and buddhists. Hindus go through different stages in their lives - growing and learning, then raising a family and working and all that, then in old age they become hermits or holy people. its also common for buddhists to spend time being monks in temples.
also the buddha wasnt striving for his own enlightenment, but the solution to the problem of suffering for the whole world. when he was born it was prophecied that he would either become a great king or be the saviour of the world, i.e. teaching the path to cessation of suffering.


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Re: Theravada Buddhism [Re: SampaJasli]
    #7145911 -

after lots of meditation
the consciousness rides multiples of thought forms and is unchained to any of them.
(simmilar to psychedelic inebrietion)

I have seen highly inebriated monks who seemed and acted straight.
speculation on how they used their freedom will to fail to pin anything down, as their very being is fluid and light.

in all likelihood the shroom was known and appreciated.
but this is secondary to the work the buddha was on about, although in this forum that is not the case.

note - buddhists and buddha were and are not on about divinity, gods, etc. tho they may use such references culturally in their roles as mendicants, they are on about awreness of what is happenning, relative to very humble contexts
(- whereas theories of gods are never humble contexts at all - i.e. man creates universe and puts god(s) in control...)


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Theravada Buddhism [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7146072 -

This is a conspiricy theory. By nature, it is going to be largely based upon a lack of knowledge, and speculation. From what I saw, it seems many of you ripped apart his thread based on his lack of evidence, while there was no real evidence offered to the contrary. :shrug:

O yea but its in the forum rules, that we have to do debate in this manner, and expecting any less is just plain silly. Right FireworksGod?:cool:


--------------------
Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!

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Re: Theravada Buddhism [Re: daytripper23]
    #7146699 -

I believe the knowledge of the psilocybin shroom was once known all over the world at various times...but the knowledge was lost. I find it intriguing to speculate about strange old texts... Yes its pure speculation...but you've got to start somewhere. With the knowledge of what i know about the power of the mushroom, I find many interesting "coincidences" about them occasionally in literature. (Yes, I'm talking about texts from before Wasson's discoveries)


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"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb

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Re: Theravada Buddhism [Re: daytripper23]
    #7146816 -

daytripper23 said:
This is a conspiricy theory.



Is it? I thought it was speculation. :shrug:

Quote:
By nature, it is going to be largely based upon a lack of knowledge, and speculation. From what I saw, it seems many of you ripped apart his thread based on his lack of evidence, while there was no real evidence offered to the contrary. :shrug:



It is the responsibility of the individual making the claim to substantiate it, not the responsibility of others to provide evidence that it is not substansial. :awesome: I fail to comprehend how what has been proposed is a "conspiracy theory".  The circumstances of John F. Kennedy's death, for instance, is particularily prone for conspiracy theories, due to the fact that there are demonstratable inconsistencies in the official story as to what happened. That is to say, it is actually based upon something substansial.

Regarding what has been proposed to the contrary, there have been several specific lines of reasoning to counter the foundations upon which the speculation was based. For instance, it was alleged that it is very easy for mistranslation from the original text, so that a word meaning "psychadelic" was translated as "poisonous". I personally, specifically questioned as to whether it was actually quite possible for this type of mistranslation to occur. Now, anyone with an actual understanding of the languages used and the translation process could actually verify specifically how possible such an error is to occur.

Now, is it my responsibilty, as the dissenting viewpoint, to research and analyze into that and verify whether or not it is actually possible for it to have occured, within the context of debate? Of course it isn't - it is the responsibility of the claimant to do so, to provide substanstiation for their own position, if they are interested in determining if their speculation is justified and representing that speculation as being justified.

Now, anyone is free to speculation, and, as it exists within the realm of speculation, it does not provide any commentary as to the reality of the situation; however, if one is to propose that one's speculation is justified, well, that's another story altogether. :smirk: 

Quote:
O yea but its in the forum rules, that we have to do debate in this manner, and expecting any less is just plain silly. Right FireworksGod?:cool:



No, that isn't right. :sorry: The forum rules specify the purpose and intention of this forum, which specifically orientates this forum as one that is centered around open discussion of philosophical/spiritual ideas. It does not mandate how individuals choose to discuss these ideas; however, it does clarify that any idea is free to be challenged, criticized, refuted, or otherwise exposed to any viewpoint on the ideas. This is the nature of the forum, and thus it is to be accepted in posting that it is likely that one's presentation will be subject to it. Of course, there is another forum that is centered around discussing ideas of a similar nature, that is orientated towards a different form of discussion, so if anyone is personally dissatisifed with this fact, they are free to explore other alternatives. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Theravada Buddhism [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7147131 -

Thank you guys for all your help, I was hoping my speculation could cause some people to come forward with something more substantial. I'm sorry i got pissed, but i still feel some of your answers were rather..smart-ass-ish:)ha ha but its cool, i appreciate the help....

Does anybody have any information that could support my speculation?


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"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb

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Re: Theravada Buddhism [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7147153 -

I was joking about the rules. My point is that weve got rules, but im sure there are higher forms of decency and debate, than what can be explained through definitive rules. Im just saying that these rules can easily be used as an excuse for degrading the conversation. I would love to have a discussion with you about this, you should PM me about it if youd like to.

But back to what the original poster posted about, I agree, it is speculation. If Buddha actually died on shrooms, that would mean that the information got lost somehow. Information concerning the the death of such prolific icon somehow getting lost in the mix sounds a bit conspirical to me, so I believe it should be treated as a possible conspiricy theory.


--------------------
Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!

Edited by daytripper23 (07/08/07 04:23 PM)

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Re: Theravada Buddhism [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7147154 -

Well, I really wish I knew more information, and I definitely can see where your speculation is coming from. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Theravada Buddhism [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7147184 -

do you really mean that? or are you being sarcastic?


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"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb

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Re: Theravada Buddhism [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7147339 -

Teotzlcoatl said:
Thank you guys for all your help, I was hoping my speculation could cause some people to come forward with something more substantial. I'm sorry i got pissed, but i still feel some of your answers were rather..smart-ass-ish:)ha ha but its cool, i appreciate the help....

Does anybody have any information that could support my speculation?



I admit that I was being a smart ass. But it's only because I was bored. I'm a really bad person. But I do enjoy myself here.:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Theravada Buddhism [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7147412 -

the circumstances of the buddha's death don't really matter all that much anyway.
I suggest you read the buddha's analogy of the poisoned arrow.
i have it in a book somewhere but i wont be able to find it for awhile.


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Re: Theravada Buddhism [Re: SampaJasli]
    #7147417 -

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Theravada Buddhism [Re: Icelander]
    #7147518 -

Thank you for the dancing monkey... :bowdown:  My Buddhist monk is trippin' Amanita muscaria, XTC, and psilocybes while worshiping ...your monkey.


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb

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Re: Theravada Buddhism [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7147658 -

Now yer talkin. The monkey dances because he sleeps. See if you can wake him up.;)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Theravada Buddhism [Re: Icelander]
    #7231034 -

does anybody have anything to add?


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb

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Re: Theravada Buddhism [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7231050 -

Well at least you know exactly what happened.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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