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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge...
    #4790726 -

I have no problem with someone who professes belief in something, like people who say "i believe in god"... such a statement requires no explanation or proof of god's existence, it is merely a profession of what someone believes...

I do have a problem with someone who states "I know god exists, because he talks to me"... that kind of statement is really a dirty trick, an attempt of one person to claim authority and knowledge of what none of us truly knows...

a person who makes such a claim is doing so because he will not admit that he doesn't know whether god exists or not, like the rest of us... it is an attempt to stifle discussion by claiming to be able to confirm through testimony the existence of god and that he does indeed talk to some of us...

likewise, people who claim to know what happens to us after death, because they communicate with the dead, or someone who claims to know that extraterrestrials have visited us because they have had conversations with them and are privy to knowledge that the rest of us do not have access to...

nobody truly knows whether god or aliens exist or what happens to us after we die... those who claim to have knowledge of these subjects because of personal communication are liars, pure and simple, who have zero respect for the rest of us who are genuinely interested in exploring these topics...

such people will listen to your beliefs, and then come right out and tell you that you are wrong, because they know and you are just speculating... they don't say 'such and such book says you are wrong' or even 'i believe you are wrong', they say 'you are wrong, because i know the real truth'

people who claim to know that which none of us knows should not be tolerated in a discussion forum devoted to exploring these subjects in an attempt to get at the truth...


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We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:

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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #4790746 -

I tried to make a thread to discuss how I can channel god, but the cultmasters deleted it.

Why do you so staunchly believe nobody has the ability to communicate with god or know what happens after death?


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: daimyo]
    #4790760 -

jesus emailed nudes of himself to me so yes i communicate with him


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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #4790795 -

have you ever been to Egypt?

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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: daimyo]
    #4790840 -

daimyo said:
Why do you so staunchly believe nobody has the ability to communicate with god or know what happens after death?


because these are things we believe, not things that we know... invariably when someone claims special knowledge, thay are attempting to get someone's money, or they want to be viewed as an authority, on a higher plane than the rest of us...

invariably, when someone claims personal knowledge of god, for example, if you ask them for proof they say it is a matter of faith... well a person who gets messages directly from god has zero faith, because it has been proven to them that god exists, or so they claim... a person who truly receives messages from god, having received confirmation of what the rest of us must take on faith, should logically become so pious, so absorbed in religious study, that they would have no time to debate the matter... a person who has definite confirmation of god's existence would take every word of the bible as a direct commandment from god, and will act accordingly... they would also not be interested in convincing others that they do in fact talk to god, because to do so would eliminate the need for faith in anyone who believed the tale...

likewise, a person who can communicate with the dead would have no interest in channelling dead loved ones in exchange for cash donations, when there are so many things that can be learned from the dead more important than 'i love you and i'll be waiting on the other side' messages...

a person who claims special knowledge acts for their own benefit, whereas a person who truly has confirmation of higher spiritual levels will have zero self interest, because such a person would know that this life is temporary and unimportant in the grand scheme of things...


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We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:

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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: goobler]
    #4790942 -

goobler said:
have you ever been to Egypt?


nope, never been... why?


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We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:

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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #4790963 -

That's your take on it.

If someone is receiving messages from god I don't think they would instantly immerse themselves in religion. Most people study religion to help them find and understand god. When god picks you out there is no need.

As for talking to dead people, why shouldn't they use their gift for profit? Or for helping someone attain the closure they need?

While this life may be less important than the waiting afterlife, it is by no mean unimportant. There are many souls that have yet to be saved.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #4790976 -

MikeOLogical said:
goobler said:
have you ever been to Egypt?


nope, never been... why?


do you believe the pyramids exist?

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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #4790988 -

Spirituality and Mysticism
A forum to freely express and discuss your personal beliefs in spirituality and mysticism. Share your views of the universe, souls, god(s) and beyond.


If you were genuinely interested in exploring these topics.. you wouldn't be calling those who talk about their experiences with these topics, liars.. because you cannot conceive of it in your own reality.


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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: Shroomism]
    #4790996 -

This coming from the person that deleted my thread about these same topics and gave the reason as being "trash"  :nut:


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: daimyo]
    #4791011 -

Your thread was an intentional mockery.


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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: Shroomism]
    #4791019 -

i am genuinely interested in exploring these topics, and i have no problems with people who recount their experiences... i do have a problem with people who recount their fantasies, and call them experiences... those people are liars, and they frustrate my attempts to get at the truth, by making false claims that would seemingly invalidate any thoughts i had to the contrary


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We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:

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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #4791026 -

And how do you determine who is sharing experiences and who is sharing fantasies?


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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: Shroomism]
    #4791038 -

and how do you?

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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: goobler]
    #4791045 -

by reading OTD


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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: goobler]
    #4791046 -

goobler said:
MikeOLogical said:
goobler said:
have you ever been to Egypt?


nope, never been... why?


do you believe the pyramids exist?


yes i do... i have seen convincing photographic evidence of them, and i have heard and read credible accounts of them by people who claim to have seen them... i believe these accounts, because they seem to be honest accounts, and not fantasies... moreover these accounts have been independently confirmed by people who, in my opinion, have no visible reason to lie to me that the pyramids do in fact exist...

i do not believe that there is a portal to the fourth dimension in the foot of the sphinx, however, because i have found the accounts of such a portal to be not credible... the accounts i have read about this portal do not seem to agree with one another, and the people relating these accounts seem to have an ulterior motive, namely to be seen as mystical and somehow greater than the rest of us...


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We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:

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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #4791065 -

uh ok

/takes 4th dimensional portal out of thread

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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: Shroomism]
    #4791081 -

Shroomism said:
And how do you determine who is sharing experiences and who is sharing fantasies?


well, i could tell you that the aliens gave me an implant in my brain that tells me what is real and what isn't, or i could tell you that the aliens have told me whats what and what isn't, but we both know i wouldn't be telling the truth if i did that...

i determine the truth or untruth of a statement given me by examining the tale and the teller....

i ask myself-

is this tale likely to be true?
does this tale ring true, or, does it sound to me like it could be true?
is the person telling me this doing it to inform me, or for some other reason?
does the person telling me this have anything to gain by fooling me?

that is not to say that any tale told to me will automatically be viewed as false, but, the more improbable the tale, the more skeptical i would be about it, and the more proof i require that the tale is genuine...

some stories are immediately suspected as false, because the tale is so improbable and the teller has very little credibility...

so to answer you directly, i rely on my own instincts...


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:

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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #4792750 -

i personally feel that since the entire state of reality itself is subjective, so is every view inside it ... EVERY view ... which leads me to the belief that in no way is anything truly 'fact', facts are merely commonly shared beliefs of different philosophies of things ... finding common ground ('facts') is what allows us as humans to interact with each other and with a defined but very malleable world, and overall existance ...

trying to prove anything as 'fact' seems to be an egotistical endeavor, one left to people who don't wish to experience and learn ...

two people in the same room may agree that there is a desk in the middle of the room (finding common ground) but the experience of what the desk is and how it affects you and from which angle you are looking at it is unique to both of those individuals ... so that desk is, afterall, nothing more than a SYMBOL, not a 'fact', with a great portion of what the symbolism is being attributed to your own personal feelings with the desk ...

that may have been a poor example, but hopefully you get the drift of what i'm saying ... i'm a big believer in understanding that we all 'know nothing', because 'knowing' implies fact ... and fact can only be fact when it is, indeed, FACT, and with one variable added to an equation it automatically cannot be fact ...

/brain meltdown


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So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. - Galatians 5:16

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Re: statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge... [Re: HB]
    #4792842 -

i can dig that, but what i'm talking about is people who out and out lie to you, spinning fantastic stories that they know never happened to them, just to be seen as some kind of expert...


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We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Spirituality & Mysticism
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