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OfflineDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: Mourningdove]
    #5809762 - 07/01/06 01:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mourningdove said:
Quote:

DoctorJ said:



No one can escape God's Justice.  No one is always above Karma. 





With your cynical and somewhat self rightious attitude, you're gonna have some explaining to do yourself  :shocked:




I'm not too worried about it, to tell you the truth.  I have spent quite a lot of time and effort thinking about whether or not I SHOULD BE worried about it, though.  Don't even think for a second that I have excluded myself from that responsibility.  I take that VERY seriously.  Due to the amount of careful consideration I give to as to the validity of both myself and others' opinions, I'm really more worried about whether OTHERS take their responsibility to self-scrutinize seriously. 

nevertheless, I have faith in both God and myself, not to mention the majority of humanity as well.  I even have faith that Lucifer himself might straighten up and fly right and make it out with the rest of us. 

so, if I am wrong, then God can strike me down.  I wouldn't want to be wrong against Him.  I'd rather be dead.  If I have committed a crime, then let it be committed against me.  I have a pretty clean conscience in this area.  Never killed anybody never, raped anybody, never fucked anyone over in my life that didn't have it comin to em. I'll stand before the one True God without fear.  I'll accept what he hands me, whatever it may be.  I have faith that even the lowliest sinner can find redemption in God.


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InvisibleMourningdove
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Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 399
Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5809973 - 07/01/06 02:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
Quote:

Mourningdove said:
Quote:

DoctorJ said:



No one can escape God's Justice.  No one is always above Karma. 





With your cynical and somewhat self rightious attitude, you're gonna have some explaining to do yourself  :shocked:




I'm not too worried about it, to tell you the truth.  I have spent quite a lot of time and effort thinking about whether or not I SHOULD BE worried about it, though.  Don't even think for a second that I have excluded myself from that responsibility.  I take that VERY seriously.  Due to the amount of careful consideration I give to as to the validity of both myself and others' opinions, I'm really more worried about whether OTHERS take their responsibility to self-scrutinize seriously. 

nevertheless, I have faith in both God and myself, not to mention the majority of humanity as well.  I even have faith that Lucifer himself might straighten up and fly right and make it out with the rest of us. 

so, if I am wrong, then God can strike me down.  I wouldn't want to be wrong against Him.  I'd rather be dead.  If I have committed a crime, then let it be committed against me.  I have a pretty clean conscience in this area.  Never killed anybody never, raped anybody, never fucked anyone over in my life that didn't have it comin to em. I'll stand before the one True God without fear.  I'll accept what he hands me, whatever it may be.  I have faith that even the lowliest sinner can find redemption in God.




I think that you will find peace and fullfillment with your God if you can accept that others have found fullfilling spiritual paths that are not born of Christianity.


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Posts: 8,846
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Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: Mourningdove]
    #5810050 - 07/01/06 03:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think you don't know what the hell I am talking about.

I study and respect all religions. Be speaking in christian terms, I am merely communicating in a language that Americans can understand.

Have you read my "My Personal Quest for God" thread? If you had, you would know that I have a deep understanding and rspect for all religions, unless they are simply untrue.

perhaps you should try understanding my perspective before judging it. I've made over 8,000 posts here, many of them involving spirituality and philosophy. So get crackin', mrs character judge. You have a lot of evidence to examine before leaping to conclusions.


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1,250
Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5810157 - 07/01/06 03:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I kind of understand more what DoctorJ is saying, it is up to US to DO something about our spirituality and practice if we want liberation.  We can't just sit around and wait to die, then expect some heaven.  Selfish acts lead to suffering, which can lead to more selfish acts and becoming blind of our duty to practice selfless action and continue on the path towards God.

It is why selfish acts lead to suffering and aren't acceptable if you expect enlightenment.  It is okay but that's in the grand scope of okayness and God, which we are all inseparable from.  Here on Earth, if you are wanting happiness then it is not okay to continue to avoid your destiny (which is God realization).  But ultimately it is your choice to seek God or ignore it, and risk falling into pits of despair and self-replicating suffering.  God will help you out when you truly realize the necessity of seeking him, but you can't expect enlightenment over night.

It is up to us to actually pursue God.  My way of doing that is through prayer, meditation, contemplation.  And this discussion was enjoyable and has helped me to learn some.

Edit:  And it's not specific to any one religion or path, it's just that you need some kind of frame for the point of what is being discussed.  The frame is sometimes necessary to communicate on this silly dream-world  :ooo:


Edited by thatiAM (07/01/06 03:51 PM)


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: thatiAM]
    #5810198 - 07/01/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

DoctorJ writes:
Everything you get must be earned, including enlightenment. Otherwise, you wouldn't appreciate it.

Can justification be earned? are you teaching that a man can be "good enough" to merit justification? What is the basis of justification according to your theology?


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: fivepointer]
    #5810291 - 07/01/06 04:57 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

justification of what?

justification for one's own actions is in general earned by being in accordance with what is right for all people. No one's perspective can be left out in the definition of right and wrong. This is something I have learned from Jefferson.

Were they justified in starting the revolution? Of course they were! Their government had screwed them over and thus invalidated their contract. Jefferson said that The government's authority is derived by consent of the governed people. Once there is no longer consent, the government's authority is invalidated.

Of course, Jefferson wasn't all right. Sometimes, the people don't know what is best for them, and thus can't act in their own interest properly. But this is almost always the government's fault for withholding information. That's why there has to be honesty between the people and their rulers.

Also, sometimes people need to get what they deserve instead of getting what they want all the time. Of course, the convicted killer does not consent to being put to death by the state! But that's tough titty. He defaulted on the 'Thou shalt not Kill' clause, and thus invited his own death by a jury of his peers.

But back on topic, how does one justify one's own personal actions? A difficult question, and one I have struggled with myself quite a bit.

Mainly because of my experiences in life and my Father's teachings, I have a strong inner drive for balance. When I see imbalance and injustice in the world, it is in my nature to strive to correct it, even at great personal cost. I can't bear to see people getting screwed over. It totally grinds my gears. Thats why I've realized that God put me here to do Justice.

Firstly, I have done this in my own life. I always strive to be fair in my dealings with others. Thats why I sleep so well at night. It comes from the inner peace of knowing that I didn't put any suffering in the world today. I helped the best I could.

Sometimes, my own ignorance keeps me from understanding what the world needs, and I screw people over without realizing it. For this, I always take responsibility, go back and try to clean up whatver messes I've made as best I can.

anyway, good intentions often don't pan out when there is no wisdom in the method of their employment. Thus, I have sought to gain wisdom so I can communicate the paradise inside to the Outer Reality. I like to think I get a little better at it every day. Hopefully, we all do.

So, ultimately I would say that justification comes from Light and Wisdom. Find light and wisdom, and you will have the voice of Justice on your shoulder.

In order to see if I would be justified in doing something, the proposed behavior must go through a thought loop which is a series of questions I must answer as truthfully as I can:

Would it help? (First do no harm)

Would it help the right people, the ones who deserve help?

Would it restore balance, or would it create imbalance?

would it cause pain and suffering that is undue?

would it ultimately bring out an outcome that is acceptable by all people invloved?

and so on and so forth.

The fact of the matter is that I can't tell you how actions are justified because I really haven't even completely figured it out yet. Thats why I frequently choose to do nothing! I'd rather do nothing than the wrong thing! Instead, I'll sit back and learn from other's mistakes. Sometimes, I even learn from my own mistakes.

There are some folks on this planet who say that no action is justified! I haven't ruled out that possibility, I can indeed see its validity. After all, ever action has ramifications that we aren't completely aware of! A butterfly flapping its wings in San Francisco could cause a Tsunami in Asia! That's why I choose to tread carefylly! I'm not trying to cause tsunamis, I just want to steady the poor bastards who are about to fall off their tightrope!


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5810393 - 07/01/06 05:45 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

justification of what?

Justification before God. Not justification for one's own actions.

What is your theology concerning how a person who lacks the perfect righteousness required by God can be justified with God? This is a basic question.
What is the basis of justification according to your theology?


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: fivepointer]
    #5810567 - 07/01/06 06:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I still don't think I quite understand your question.

Do you mean, how can I stand before God and know that I was just in what I did here on Earth?

Well, I suppose he would have to tell me for me to know!

When I die, and go before God, here is what I will say:

"I tried, father. I sincerely tried with everything I have. Did I help? All I ever wanted was to help. I know that I don't know eveything, but I tried my hardest to understand as best I could and apply what I'd learned as best as I could. All I ever wanted was what is best for everyone. I tried so hard, father. I spilled my own blood, sweat and tears all over the ground. I gave until it hurt and then some. Within the confines of my imperfect human vessel, I did whatever I could to make things right. I didn't use force or treachery in your name. I used a light touch in my dealings with the world. I yielded whenever I could, and I stood up for what is right, just, and true. I always kept fairness and balance close to my heart. I tried not to judge, but I did my best to keep the demons from running amok and slaughtering the innocent. I did the best I could with what you gave me, Lord. Was my performance to your liking? I sincerely hope so, my Lord. What else now would you have me do, Sir? "

You have no idea how sincerely I mean those words. In my life, I have been shown both the Wonders and Horrors of God's Reality, and I can think of no other Royal Family that I would rather serve. I know this sounds corny, but He is my Lord, he gave me the freedom to think and behave autonomously and I respect him to the utmost for that. He created everything that exists, and I have no choice but to tip my hat to him. My highest aspiration is to be like God in understanding God and putting the powers he has granted me to good use. Thats why I have spent the majority of my life trying to understand God and his ways, and put myself in tune with Him.

and when I have made my appeal before God, he will hand me his verdict. I have no idea what that verdict will be, but I have faith that I will get what I deserve, whatever that may be. He knows me, he knows who I am, the forces that drive my behavior, the situations I have been thrown into and forced to react to. I have faith in His ability to know whether or not I did what I was supposed to do.


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InvisibleMourningdove
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Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 399
Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5810602 - 07/01/06 07:04 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
I think you don't know what the hell I am talking about.

I study and respect all religions. Be speaking in christian terms, I am merely communicating in a language that Americans can understand.

Have you read my "My Personal Quest for God" thread? If you had, you would know that I have a deep understanding and rspect for all religions, unless they are simply untrue.

perhaps you should try understanding my perspective before judging it. I've made over 8,000 posts here, many of them involving spirituality and philosophy. So get crackin', mrs character judge. You have a lot of evidence to examine before leaping to conclusions.




I'm not gonna read your 8000 posts. But I do find some value in what you say. I have a problem with the Satan talk which comes off as judgemental preaching. I don't think it helps to throw static conceps like good and evil at people. I think defining things as opposites may be a more accurate description of what is a pretty complex universe.

And not all Americans have to be preached to in "Christian" terms. You seem to be a guy in conflict with his anger, which is fine. We all have such obsticles to overcome. I guess I get defensive because far too many Christians I have met seem to be consumed with a hate like insecurity of their own faith. I am not saying that you are one of those people, you say many valuable things, but I don't see how judgemental preaching really helps a lot of people with their spirituality.

Anyway, thanks for some of your perspectives, they are interesting...


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5810659 - 07/01/06 07:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I still don't think I quite understand your question.

Do you mean, how can I stand before God and know that I was just in what I did here on Earth?

Well, I suppose he would have to tell me for me to know!

When I die, and go before God, here is what I will say:

"I tried, father. I sincerely tried with everything I have. Did I help? All I ever wanted was to help. I know that I don't know eveything, but I tried my hardest to understand as best I could and apply what I'd learned as best as I could. All I ever wanted was what is best for everyone. I tried so hard, father. I spilled my own blood, sweat and tears all over the ground. I gave until it hurt and then some. Within the confines of my imperfect human vessel, I did whatever I could to make things right. I didn't use force or treachery in your name. I used a light touch in my dealings with the world. I yielded whenever I could, and I stood up for what is right, just, and true. I always kept fairness and balance close to my heart. I tried not to judge, but I did my best to keep the demons from running amok and slaughtering the innocent. I did the best I could with what you gave me, Lord. Was my performance to your liking? I sincerely hope so, my Lord. What else now would you have me do, Sir? "


You are making your plea based on your own efforts at righteous actions. However the scripture teaches that no man is justified by works. What you are missing is that the only basis for justification is the perfect work and obedience of Jesus Christ on behalf of His people. God can only look at perfection, and He can look at Jesus and be well pleased, since He is perfect. By the obedience of One many are made righteous. People are not justified because they are relatively better than others, but only because Christ is perfect. The sins of all those that will inherit eternal life are imputed to His account, and He satisfied justice by coming under God's wrath, and His righteousness is imputed to their accounts. This is why it is only by faith, and not by works, that anyone can be justified. Faith in itself is not a justifiable cause, but it observes the justification that Christ has wrought out for His people.


You have no idea how sincerely I mean those words. In my life, I have been shown both the Wonders and Horrors of God's Reality, and I can think of no other Royal Family that I would rather serve. I know this sounds corny, but He is my Lord, he gave me the freedom to think and behave autonomously and I respect him to the utmost for that. He created everything that exists, and I have no choice but to tip my hat to him. My highest aspiration is to be like God in understanding God and putting the powers he has granted me to good use. Thats why I have spent the majority of my life trying to understand God and his ways, and put myself in tune with Him.

and when I have made my appeal before God, he will hand me his verdict. I have no idea what that verdict will be, but I have faith that I will get what I deserve, whatever that may be. He knows me, he knows who I am, the forces that drive my behavior, the situations I have been thrown into and forced to react to. I have faith in His ability to know whether or not I did what I was supposed to do.


I am sure you are very sincere in your words, but sincerity without belief of the truth of God's testimony is worthless. You say you do not know what the verdict will be in your case, but all believers know the verdict, guilty, but washed in the blood of Christ and justified, despite who they are. I hope that you might be convicted of the futility of self-righteousness, and brought to see the light of the gospel. All believers have full assurance of salvation, they are not doubtful about whether they are justified.


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: fivepointer]
    #5810755 - 07/01/06 08:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

You are making your plea based on your own efforts at righteous actions. However the scripture teaches that no man is justified by works. What you are missing is that the only basis for justification is the perfect work and obedience of Jesus Christ on behalf of His people.




what should I put my efforts towards besides righteous actions?  What do you suggest I should do with my efforts?  I don't claim to be justified by works!  I am justified by Faith in God, Christ and their creations.  You think I'm not humble?  I have struggled my entire life with underconfidence and depression, to the point of allowing many people to walk all over me like a fucking doormat!  I have considered myself unworthy of many things that others take for granted.  You have no idea how many cheeks I've turned, how much I have sacrificed of myself for the benefit of others!  I'm not trying to lord this over anyone, and I'm not trying to collect credit for my work.  Credit belongs to God.  I understand this.  Do you? 

How can anyone claim to perfectly obey Christ?  Can YOU make this claim?  You say that Salvation is not Justified by works, then you say I must perfectly obey Christ?  Isn't that a Work? 

Sure, I'll work on behalf of Christ's people.  But as one of Christ's people myself, should they not work on behalf of me as well?  I was baptized.  Contrary to popular belief, the Holy water didn't burn my skin.  The Host did not poison me.  I'm just as saved as you are, buddy, so don't point your fuckin finger at me.  I've accepted Christ as my savior, not only that, I respect his sacrifice enough to follow his legacy and emulate his behavior and teachings to the fullest extent that I can. 

Quote:


God can only look at perfection, and He can look at Jesus and be well pleased, since He is perfect. By the obedience of One many are made righteous. People are not justified because they are relatively better than others, but only because Christ is perfect. The sins of all those that will inherit eternal life are imputed to His account, and He satisfied justice by coming under God's wrath, and His righteousness is imputed to their accounts. This is why it is only by faith, and not by works, that anyone can be justified. Faith in itself is not a justifiable cause, but it observes the justification that Christ has wrought out for His people.




Why should the sins of mankind be on Jesus's account?  He is the Prince of All.  I think he deserves better.  I'll take as much of the load off of his shoulders as I can, because I respect him.  Do you? 

Quote:

am sure you are very sincere in your words, but sincerity without belief of the truth of God's testimony is worthless. You say you do not know what the verdict will be in your case, but all believers know the verdict, guilty, but washed in the blood of Christ and justified, despite who they are. I hope that you might be convicted of the futility of self-righteousness, and brought to see the light of the gospel. All believers have full assurance of salvation, they are not doubtful about whether they are justified.




And where is God's testimony?  The Bible?  :rofl:  You fool.  That's one book in a sea of books.  If God is everything, Then ALL books are His testimony.  He is the Source of Everything that exists!!!!  So in order to completely know God's testimony, you would have to read them all, not to mention have an intimate understanding of every living thing on te planet Earth.  Have you done this?  Well then, shut the fuck up!  Do you know God's will?  Because according to your own ideology, you can't as an imperfect human know God's will, so that means you need to shut the fuck up!  You are guilty of the same crimes I am, so if I go down, you're goin with me :smirk:

you hope I am covicted?  How very Christian of you :rolleyes:  If persecution be your prescription for me then rest assured that Christ will prescibe you the very same.  Aren't you self-righteous in judging my interpretation and hoping I get convicted? 

And anyone who assures themself of salvation is a fool.  Only God and Christ can assure you your salvation.  You can't usurp their job and declare yourself saved no matter what.  That is the heavenly father and his son's decision, not yours. 

Will Jesus pay for my sins with his blood?  I believe so.  Should he have to?  Hell, no.  He is my Lord, and he deserves better.  I try so hard to do my own laundry, because I don't think that my shit SHOULD be Jesus's responsibility. 

You know why it pisses me off when people wear crosses?  Because they see that as: "This is what gets me off the hook for all the horrible shit I've done.  The King's son is footing my tab." 

FUCK THAT.  I don't want to put anything on Jesus's credit card.  I want to pay my own way and leave Jesus out of my dirty business.  Jesus has been through more than enough shit.  I sincerely don't want to put any more shit on his plate.  I don't care if this gets me credit or whatever.  I just know its the right thing to do.  Christ has been cleaning the souls of this planet for awhile.  If I can give him a little less work, I will.  Not because I expect a favor in return, but because I know damn well he has enough on his plate already. 

Sure, Jesus will forgive your sins, but don't you thik he'll be more pleased if you don't sin in the first place?  All I want is to please God and Christ and all the other members of God's Army.  Thats all I've ever striven for.  I'm not taking the Crucifixion as a blank check to do whatever I want.  I see His sacrifice, and I respect it enough to imitate it in my own way, so that I may continue his legacy here on Earth. 

I'm done talking with you, dude.  You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.  I suggest you spend about 10 years reading and then talk to me about spirituality.  Maybe try expanding your horizons to understand all of the world's religions instead of just the one you were raised by.  You think God and Christ are so uncompassionate that they would damn foriegners to hell simply because they call God a different name?  Now who's self righteous?  There is truth and beauty in all religions.  God is the founder of almost every religion there is, not just yours.  All those people in other countries think of you as a heathen the same way you think of them as heathens.  Which of you is right?  Do you really think it has to be you or them?  Why not both? 

And how do you know the validity of your Bible?  How do you know that it is an accurate reflection of what actually happened?  Have you read it in its original translation?  Do you even know which language the original translation is in?  How do you know that the King James translation you bought at Barnes and Knoble is the real deal?  By trusting what they have handed you, you aren't having faith in God, you are having faith in Barnes And Knoble, King James, and the Roman editors who edited and compiled the book.  I wouldn't put too much faith in those false idols, if I were you. 

The God who gave us the bible also gave us a brain capable of questioning it.  Do you think he wants us to use one and not the other?  If everything exists for a reason, then why did God create brains capable of disbelieving?  The truth is, with your current level of education, you can't anser these questions.  So I'd suggest you do some more homework before you try to bring the hammer down on me, punk. 

good day to you sir.


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5810926 - 07/01/06 09:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

fivepointer:
Quote:
You are making your plea based on your own efforts at righteous actions. However the scripture teaches that no man is justified by works. What you are missing is that the only basis for justification is the perfect work and obedience of Jesus Christ on behalf of His people.


DoctorJ:
what should I put my efforts towards besides righteous actions? What do you suggest I should do with my efforts? I don't claim to be justified by works! I am justified by Faith in God, Christ and their creations. You think I'm not humble? I have struggled my entire life with underconfidence and depression, to the point of allowing many people to walk all over me like a fucking doormat! I have considered myself unworthy of many things that others take for granted. You have no idea how many cheeks I've turned, how much I have sacrificed of myself for the benefit of others! I'm not trying to lord this over anyone, and I'm not trying to collect credit for my work. Credit belongs to God. I understand this. Do you?

This is the crux of the lost self-righteous religionist, notice the Pharisee who thanks God for being holier than others, yet he is not justified.

Luke 18:11-12 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

But the publican can not mention any good work, and he is justified.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

How can anyone claim to perfectly obey Christ? Can YOU make this claim? You say that Salvation is not Justified by works, then you say I must perfectly obey Christ? Isn't that a Work?

I never said I perfectly obey Christ, I said the basis of justification is Christ's obedience, not my obedience.

Sure, I'll work on behalf of Christ's people. But as one of Christ's people myself, should they not work on behalf of me as well? I was baptized. Contrary to popular belief, the Holy water didn't burn my skin. The Host did not poison me. I'm just as saved as you are, buddy, so don't point your fuckin finger at me. I've accepted Christ as my savior, not only that, I respect his sacrifice enough to follow his legacy and emulate his behavior and teachings to the fullest extent that I can.

You were baptized, so what?? Does baptism have some magical power? "Holy water", where did you get that notion from? Certainly not the Word. Saved people believe the gospel. Your "gospel" is not the gospel found in scripture.

Quote:

God can only look at perfection, and He can look at Jesus and be well pleased, since He is perfect. By the obedience of One many are made righteous. People are not justified because they are relatively better than others, but only because Christ is perfect. The sins of all those that will inherit eternal life are imputed to His account, and He satisfied justice by coming under God's wrath, and His righteousness is imputed to their accounts. This is why it is only by faith, and not by works, that anyone can be justified. Faith in itself is not a justifiable cause, but it observes the justification that Christ has wrought out for His people.



Why should the sins of mankind be on Jesus's account?
The sins of the elect, all those that will inherit eternal life, are laid to His account, not all mankind.

He is the Prince of All. I think he deserves better. I'll take as much of the load off of his shoulders as I can, because I respect him. Do you?

You can not take any load off. Your attempts at helping to justify yourself actually sets aside the work of Christ, and it is an insult.

Quote:
am sure you are very sincere in your words, but sincerity without belief of the truth of God's testimony is worthless. You say you do not know what the verdict will be in your case, but all believers know the verdict, guilty, but washed in the blood of Christ and justified, despite who they are. I hope that you might be convicted of the futility of self-righteousness, and brought to see the light of the gospel. All believers have full assurance of salvation, they are not doubtful about whether they are justified.



And where is God's testimony? The Bible? You fool. That's one book in a sea of books. If God is everything, Then ALL books are His testimony. He is the Source of Everything that exists!!!! So in order to completely know God's testimony, you would have to read them all, not to mention have an intimate understanding of every living thing on te planet Earth. Have you done this? Well then, shut the fuck up! Do you know God's will? Because according to your own ideology, you can't as an imperfect human know God's will, so that means you need to shut the fuck up! You are guilty of the same crimes I am, so if I go down, you're goin with me

All books are not God's testimony, this is just absurd, and you claim affiliation with being Christian? All are guilty and all deserve the same thing, damnation, but some are shown mercy.


you hope I am covicted? How very Christian of you If persecution be your prescription for me then rest assured that Christ will prescibe you the very same. Aren't you self-righteous in judging my interpretation and hoping I get convicted?

Before a person can be saved they need to be shown the reason why, part of this process is conviction of sinnership.

And anyone who assures themself of salvation is a fool. Only God and Christ can assure you your salvation. You can't usurp their job and declare yourself saved no matter what. That is the heavenly father and his son's decision, not yours.

All believers are assured of salvation, the Spirit and Word bearing witness to this fact.

Will Jesus pay for my sins with his blood? I believe so. Should he have to? Hell, no. He is my Lord, and he deserves better. I try so hard to do my own laundry, because I don't think that my shit SHOULD be Jesus's responsibility.

You know why it pisses me off when people wear crosses? Because they see that as: "This is what gets me off the hook for all the horrible shit I've done. The King's son is footing my tab."

FUCK THAT. I don't want to put anything on Jesus's credit card. I want to pay my own way and leave Jesus out of my dirty business. Jesus has been through more than enough shit. I sincerely don't want to put any more shit on his plate. I don't care if this gets me credit or whatever. I just know its the right thing to do. Christ has been cleaning the souls of this planet for awhile. If I can give him a little less work, I will. Not because I expect a favor in return, but because I know damn well he has enough on his plate already.


You can't pay your own way, it is impossible!

Sure, Jesus will forgive your sins, but don't you thik he'll be more pleased if you don't sin in the first place? All I want is to please God and Christ and all the other members of God's Army. Thats all I've ever striven for. I'm not taking the Crucifixion as a blank check to do whatever I want. I see His sacrifice, and I respect it enough to imitate it in my own way, so that I may continue his legacy here on Earth.

You are again denying Christ's work by asserting you contribute some part in justifying yourself. Your missing the fact that only perfect righteousness is acceptable, and sinners bring nothing but sin.

I'm done talking with you, dude. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. I suggest you spend about 10 years reading and then talk to me about spirituality. Maybe try expanding your horizons to understand all of the world's religions instead of just the one you were raised by. You think God and Christ are so uncompassionate that they would damn foriegners to hell simply because they call God a different name? Now who's self righteous? There is truth and beauty in all religions. God is the founder of almost every religion there is, not just yours. All those people in other countries think of you as a heathen the same way you think of them as heathens. Which of you is right? Do you really think it has to be you or them? Why not both?

There is only ONE way, and one gospel.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Ac 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

And how do you know the validity of your Bible? How do you know that it is an accurate reflection of what actually happened? Have you read it in its original translation? Do you even know which language the original translation is in? How do you know that the King James translation you bought at Barnes and Knoble is the real deal? By trusting what they have handed you, you aren't having faith in God, you are having faith in Barnes And Knoble, King James, and the Roman editors who edited and compiled the book. I wouldn't put too much faith in those false idols, if I were you.

God's Word is preserved, that fact you attack it shows what you really think of it. And you claim to be a Christian?

The God who gave us the bible also gave us a brain capable of questioning it. Do you think he wants us to use one and not the other? If everything exists for a reason, then why did God create brains capable of disbelieving? The truth is, with your current level of education, you can't anser these questions. So I'd suggest you do some more homework before you try to bring the hammer down on me, punk.

It doesn't take 10 years of education to understand the gospel, once it is revealed it is understood immediately.


Edited by fivepointer (07/01/06 09:47 PM)


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: fivepointer]
    #5811011 - 07/01/06 10:13 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

whatever, dude. 

sins of the elect?  and you are one of those?  Get over yourself.  Just because you elected yourself don't mean Jesus has your back.  Gospel?  Which one?  The one you choose to believe in? 

Keep on believin in your false Idols if you so choose.  I don't care. 

Only time will tell which one of us is right.  I'm not too worried about it.  I have all the time in the universe.  You don't, but I do :wink:

Insult to God?  Shut the fuck up.  If I have insulted God or Christ, they'll deal with me.  I accept their judgement, not yours.  You are nobody.  Take your opinion and cram it. 

I know you have wordly power.  Go ahead and use it against me.  See what it gets you, 'Elect'.  Come on pardner, pick up the gun.  I fucking dare you.  I double-dog dare you. 

Come nail me to a tree.  See what you get.  You're just as dirty as the rest of us, so don't think for a second you have the right to cast the first stone.  I know who you are.  You know what?  I don't give a rats ass.  You are nobody as far as I'm concerned. 

Class dismissed.


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InvisibleMourningdove
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Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 399
Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5811993 - 07/02/06 10:01 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Pick up the gun? Christ is gonna toast your ass...


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: Mourningdove]
    #5812403 - 07/02/06 12:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

hey, at least I don't think of Christ as my Personal Slave due to his 'Perfect Obedience' :rolleyes:

what the hell is that guy thinking, bossing the Son of God around? 

I don't expect Jesus to do shit for me.  That kind of thinking leads to overindulgent behavior. 

'Perfect Obedience', what a crock of shit.


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OfflineIamthewalrus
every evening Idied and everynight I wasreborn
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Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5812524 - 07/02/06 01:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

its silly to think u have all the answers


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: Mourningdove]
    #5812643 - 07/02/06 02:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mourningdove said:
Pick up the gun? Christ is gonna toast your ass...




Still waiting for that. Seems lots of folks want to do His job before he gets here, though.

But the fact of the matter is that I am not guilty of any crime that Christ would toast me for. Thats why I'm unafraid of the Second Coming. I know I've been good.

The sad fact and harsh truth of the matter is that if you are guilty, you are condemned. Not by God or Christ, but by yourself. You have condemned yourself with your own sin.

How would Christ be perfectly obeying God if he allowed people to run amok and destroy that which God created, and disrespect God's basic commandments?

No, the Truth is that Christ is both reedeemer and a condemner. He is God's Judge of souls, of whether or not a soul is worthy of entering the Gates of Heaven.

Sometimes, Jesus is merciful enough to let a damned person reincarnate and try again. But some souls fuck up so bad that they get sent to Hell and ultimately deleted from existence.

I have no fear in my heart of Christ's judgement, because I know that I have taken his teachings to heart and applied them as best I could.

It even says in Revelations that when Christ comes back, he's going to take all the worthy souls with him to Heaven and leave the condemned on earth to suffer through the apocalypse.

Believe me, Christ has infinite compassion, true, but he also has infinite hostility towards all those who would bully the meek, break God's commandments, and generally be destructive assholes who make no contribution to society and instead choose to treat life as an excercise of indulgence at the expense of the weak.

So, crooked politicians and slick businessmen, beware! Christ has your number, he knows where you live, and he's coming to deliver Justice to Criminals and Mercy for their victims.


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5812684 - 07/02/06 02:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

But the fact of the matter is that I am not guilty of any crime that Christ would toast me for. Thats why I'm unafraid of the Second Coming. I know I've been good.

Are you familiar with a certain sin called "PRIDE"?

Ba da bing!

:wink: :grin:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: dblaney]
    #5812709 - 07/02/06 02:58 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

am I proud of the events of my life? Hell no! I wish to God it could have gone better. I know damn well I've made mistakes.

I'm confident that Christ and God will forgive me for those mistakes. Its the rest of humanity I'm concerned about. People around me have committed WAAAAYYY more severe crimes than I have, and I worry about their fates. The even scarier thing is that most of these people are proud of themselves for the heinous things they have done! I hate to think of what their comeuppance will be like.

But hey, its not up to me. All I can do is throw myself at God's mercy. I'm not worried about me! I'm worried about all those psychotic people who think they are going to get away with what they have done. They are screwing themselves big time.


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Jesus Lived for you [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5812712 - 07/02/06 02:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Alright


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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