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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: slapped together theory #1 [Re: cornoir]
    #4766444 -

Now that would be a crazy dose if it was potentiated by 5x it would be like taking 25 grams absolute insanity if you ask me.


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OI OI OI

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Re: slapped together theory #1 [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #4767572 -

Well I did it. The lemonade tek I came up with WORKS. I received the same EXACT high level trip as my previous report with lemon juice. Here is what I did:

1- 1.5 Grams of PC Amazon was ground up to a very fine powder.
2- 30 ML of pure squeezed lemon juice was put into a glass
3- The mush powder was placed into a mason jar and the lemon juice was added to the mix.
4- The jar was sealed and shaken vigorously
5- The jar was left overnight and was shaken the next day 3-4 times.
6- The above step was repeated every day for 3 days.
7- The mush mix was filtered through a coffee filter
8- The resulting lemon juice was kept refrigerated
9- The mush material was soaked in a mason jar with 20 ML distilled h20 and shaken every hour or so for about 12 hours. (I used the water to get the remaining alkaloids out of the mush mix since the actives in mushrooms are water soluble.)
10- The mush was then filtered out with a coffee filter and discarded. Keeping the resulting water solution.
11- The water mix and the lemon mix were mixed together to create a lemonade shot.
12- The 50 ML of solution was placed in an airplane alcohol bottle.

Check out my previous report on this thread. I can tell you that these results were ABSOLUTELY reproduced to the T. Fast come on, powerful peak, amazing visuals. This was a great extraction and I have already started to make more doses this way. I suck at posting specifics but feel free to PM me or IM me any questions you may have. (My AIM name is in my profile)


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"Someday after mastering the winds, waves, tides and gravity, we shall harness the energies of love, and then, for the second time in the history of the world, man will discover fire." -Teilhard de Chardin

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Re: slapped together theory #1 [Re: deficitism]
    #4767573 -

Let me add that my next concoction will be without the water in the mix. Just pure lemon juice.


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"Someday after mastering the winds, waves, tides and gravity, we shall harness the energies of love, and then, for the second time in the history of the world, man will discover fire." -Teilhard de Chardin

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Re: slapped together theory #1 [Re: deficitism]
    #4768633 -

I wonder what would happen if the lemon juice was heated first.

Like making tea, only with lemon juice. I've heard heat converts psilocybin into psilocin (I have no sources on this and am not even sure if it's true). Maybe it would be even more effective.

Edited by HeavyToilet (10/07/05 11:20 AM)

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Re: slapped together theory #1 [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4769347 -

I've been interested in this thread. I'm skeptical, but the worst that can happen is a normal trip. I gathered a large load of copes and cubes yesterday, and I'll be taking them out of the dehydrator and grinding them into powder shortly. I'm going to try this and see what happens.

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Re: slapped together theory #1 [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4769466 -

"Casale also notes that if one heats the extrac-
tion solution of dilute acetic acid to 70 degrees centigrade for
ten minutes, then the psilocybin is completely converted by
dephosphorylation to psilocin.(5)"

C.B. Gold mentions 70 degrees for 10 minutes in his extraction method. The melting and boiling point of acetic acid being in the over 150 degree F range.

Here is some info on citric acid concerning crystal formation and temperature.

"At room temperature, citric acid is a white crystalline powder. It can exist either in an anhydrous (water-free) form, or as a monohydrate that contains one water molecule for every molecule of citric acid. The anhydrous form crystallizes from hot water, while the monohydrate forms when citric acid is crystallized from cold water. The monohydrate can be converted to the anhydrous form by heating it above 74 ?C"

All of these are high temp chemical reactions which more than likely will not affect our practical tests, what is important is keeping the temp under the level at which it starts to detrimentally afect the Psilocin and Psilocybin. So 70 degrees F a "safe" temp, maybe.

Sadly the only real scientific testing is done at the Drug Agencies and I don't think we want to get too chummy with them.

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Re: slapped together theory #1 [Re: cornoir]
    #4769974 -

I don't know if these things have been mentioned already and frankly, I don't really care.. I've read up till half of the thread and that's enough for me.

Anyways, flavonoids will not have an effect on the trip because the ones that have been mentioned (in grapefruit juice) affect p450 CYP3A4 enzymes, psilocybin/psilocin does not interact with these enzymes at all, rather, it get's to deal with MAO.

And there is no sign of MAO inhibition because well, just try it out yourself with some amphetamines. Nothing will happen.

I don't think it has got to do much with the ph of the lemon juice, because well, I've never got potentiation from drinking coca cola with my mushrooms, same low ph..

And lastly, a placebo is a powerful thing, people that claim they have not been affected by it because "they do not think so", do not know what a placebo actually means, I suspect.. Ever heard of the experimenters effect, you know, when someone get's (un-consciously) influenced by the information given..? Well, IMO that's happening right here.


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Think have not affected the way I drugs..
We have to make him BANGERANG !!

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Re: slapped together theory #1 [Re: Blowmonkey]
    #4771326 -

Oh, well thanks for the definition of placebo. If you did take the time to continue reading the entire thread, before making a comment (of which is sarcastic and egotistical) such as you have, you would have seen that it very well may be sound. Basically, a pre-extraction of the psilocybin may be taking place (or IS taking place in the case of letting it sit). This may allow a more rapid absorption (and more complete), and therefor cause effects to come on faster and more pronounced for a shorter duration.

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Re: slapped together theory #1 [Re: Blowmonkey]
    #4772028 -

Tryptamines interact with both MAO inhibitors AND enzymes of the cytochrome oxidase system (CYP2A6 - partial agonism noted for tryptamine). Source :
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/304/2/539
Different flavonoids have both inhibitory as well as stimulatory effects across the whole spectrum of cytochrome P450 (CYP) enzymes, so cannot be written off at all.

The real enzyme of interest may actually be the ubiquitous Alkaline Phosphatase, which is responsible for dephosphorylation of psilocybin to psilocin. It appears that this is blocked by... ascorbic acid! :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...p;dopt=Abstract
This may explain prolongation.

Out of interest, I can always tell when psilocybin is being switched over to psilocin by my body enzymes because of the change in the nature of the trip and a rise in body temperature - usually about 1-2 hours in at peak time! Dephosphorylation of the chemical ATP is the main source of energy and heat in the body, and I was wondering if this may be related to the temperature rise associated with dephosphorylation of psilocybin to psilocin? Does anyone else experience this too?

:sun:

Edited by Manninee (10/08/05 03:55 AM)

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Re: slapped together theory #1 [Re: Manninee]
    #4772488 -

planning on doing this tonight with my girl friend. How long should i let the lemon juice sit with the powderized shrooms?


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The gnomes have found a new way to say hooooray.
How do you feel?

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Re: slapped together theory #1 [Re: Staypuft]
    #4772597 -

Somebody above mentioned heating the lemon juice.

When extracting psilocybin it can be converted to psilocin by heating it when it is mixed with the acid. The psilocybin loses its phosphorous attachment to become psilocin. Although the extraction I read used acetic acid, I think ascorbic acid would have similar results. I'm not sure what the effects of drinking psilocin instead of psilocybin are.

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Re: slapped together theory #1 [Re: SourceLimit]
    #4772627 -

SourceLimit said:
Oh, well thanks for the definition of placebo. If you did take the time to continue reading the entire thread, before making a comment (of which is sarcastic and egotistical) such as you have, you would have seen that it very well may be sound.


I'm sorry but my comment was neither "egotistical" or "sarcastic", I'm trying to refute some of the claims made, I do not see how this is egotistical or sarcastic, rather, it just offers another view. Most of the people here (from what I've read) do not question this experiment, but take it for what it is and that's not wrong or anything, believe what you want to believe, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be in the same camp. And I did not offer a definition of placebo, it was the definition of the "experimenters effect"..

Maninnee, that's an interesting article, I didn't know that. Still, grapefruit juice is not lemon juice and CYP2D6 is not CYP3A4. I don't have much faith in the flavonoids theory, but that's me.

Re the ascorbic acid. That's also in coca cola. Never noticed potentiation, prolongation or a difference in onset when I ate my powdered shrooms with big chugs of coca cola.

Quote:
Basically, a pre-extraction of the psilocybin may be taking place (or IS taking place in the case of letting it sit). This may allow a more rapid absorption (and more complete), and therefor cause effects to come on faster and more pronounced for a shorter duration.


Now this is plausible (and I'm very sorry if this was the conclusion in the part of the thread I haven't read), but essentially it's the same as a mushroom tea. Never heard people claim that a tea is 3-5 times stronger.

I'm still pretty skeptical of this all, but I'm not saying this all can NOT be true. I'm just skeptical of it and haven't seen rock solid evidence, such as double blind tests or theories without any flaws in it etc..

And wasn't it psilocin which crosses the BBB and not psilocybin? In that case you aren't able to tell psilocybin from psilocin because it's psilocin which is causing the effects. But I'm not sure on that, it's what I've learned a long time ago..


--------------------
Think have not affected the way I drugs..
We have to make him BANGERANG !!

Edited by Blowmonkey (10/08/05 11:42 AM)

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Re: slapped together theory #1 [Re: Blowmonkey]
    #4772695 -

Yeah I don't think psilocybin actually gets to the brain.

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Re: slapped together theory #1 [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4772841 -

Alright, I have roughly 3.5g of shrooms right now, and will weigh out and dose 1.5g with a friend tonight trying out this method. 

Will report.  Let's roll.  :usa:


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Battles of wits are impossible with the unarmed.

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Re: slapped together theory #1 [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4772871 -

Staypuft, just let your powder sit in your juice for 5minutes or less and you should be good. All the opinions of why you are skeptical are well and good, but let's get some more people trying it if possible. After going through the posts, about 9 out of 10 are reporting considerably magnified effects. That warrants more research be done. I picked some this week, so I should have some second hand reports after this weekend. I am still leaning toward my working theory though, which is basically a combination of factors are all helping. As we are only 2 weeks into this forum, I imagine we should have a larger knowledge base to work from in a few months. Keep up the exchange of ideas and the experimentation.


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If you cut off my head, what would I say? Me and my head, or me and my body?

Edited by Underhillmaster (10/17/05 05:24 PM)

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Re: slapped together theory #1 [Re: Staypuft]
    #4773197 -

Quote:
Re the ascorbic acid. That's also in coca cola. Never noticed potentiation, prolongation or a difference in onset when I ate my powdered shrooms with big chugs of coca cola.


Cola is far, far less acidic than lemon juice or my 5% ascorbic acid solution. Just because a bunch of people shout it can't possibly be acidity does by itself not mean they are right  :wink:

We see people reporting potentiation with various "strong" acidities (Cranberry, Lemon/Lime, 5% Ascorbic acid) but far less acidic juices (such as orange, which varies a great deal) provoke ambiguous results.

Quote:
How long should i let the lemon juice sit with the powderized shrooms?


I recommend you to powder the mushrooms and create doses of 1-2 fluid ounce pure lemon juice, and soaking your dried mushroom powder (without lumps) in there for 15 minutes.

Your stomachs HAVE TO BE EMPTY. fast at least 3 hours, preferably more. My friend kinda did this and reported 3-4x potency.


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Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: slapped together theory #1 [Re: Asante]
    #4773725 -

Just found my coffee grinder and have been grinding my 3.4 grams for about 20 mins now heh very fine will reweigh my dose out shortly before i dose.


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OI OI OI

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Re: slapped together theory #1 [Re: MrMolotov]
    #4773828 -

Well, I had to have a few delicious mouthfuls of stuffing (remnants of a delicious family dinner) but I'm not dosing for another hour and a half at the soonest, and it was only a few forkfuls of simple starch. 

The bag weighed in at 4.5 grams, so I guess I didn't pay too much after all.  I'm splitting it down the middle with a friend.  For science! :tongue2:


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Battles of wits are impossible with the unarmed.

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An idea for those who had positive results [Re: WillieTomg]
    #4774190 -

I haven't read the entire thread yet so I'm sorry if I repeat something thats already been said. I was thinking that if pH is resposible for the possible potentiation then perhaps taking an antacid could weaken this effect.

Maybe someone who has experimented with this could try swallowing some Tums or something before taking the shot and see if there is any observable difference.

This is a great thread and I encourage everybody who participating in this experiment to keep it up!


--------------------
"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd"

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Re: An idea for those who had positive results [Re: Toboggan]
    #4775574 -

Well, that was a fun shrooming night.  I'm a little strung out at the moment, so I'll give a more detailed report when I'm more coherent and in a state to make a coherent report on things.  I'll gladly give the incoherent one right now though:

I felt nothing that a 2g dose wouldn't give me anyway.  The times of the effects were consistent with what were reported by others (fast comeup, great peak, quick comedown) but I didn't see any visuals worth remembering or repeating.  I did have a nice trip inside my own head regarding the whole big picture and  personal realities and what have you, but I've felt as much sitting in a Sociology class.  Luckily I had soemthing to kick off the experience.  :bongload: :gethigh: :bigblunt:  After that came a fantastic equivalent of a POWERFUL fucking herbal ecstasy roll.  Tons of fun riding around in a car with friends.  I went in with an open mind, and I didn't feel anything out of the ordinary. 

I'd get more detailed, but I gotta sleep...


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Battles of wits are impossible with the unarmed.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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