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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4970711 - 11/23/05 12:19 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

i wish all knew....
i was shown the light early into my reborn life...
and to know the truth... who could ask anything more?


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: incubaby_421]
    #4971057 - 11/23/05 01:48 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I found something which might lead to even stronger visuals with BC juice.

Effect of enzyme-aided pressing on anthocyanin yield and profiles in bilberry and blackcurrant juices

Pectinex Ultra SP-L, Pectinex Smash, Pectinex BE 3-L and Biopectinase CCM increased the total content of anthocyanins by 13?41% in the bilberry juices and by 18?29% in the blackcurrant juices.

http://maxfun.vtt.fi/buchert_et_al.pdf

Pectinex Ultra SP-L, Pectinex Smash, Pectinex BE 3-L and Biopectinase CCM are genetically engineered enzymes.

It is speculated that Anthocyanins might play a major role in enhacing vision in the dark:

http://www.chiro.org/nutrition/FULL/Anthocyanins.html
Eyesight: Anthocyanins may also improve eyesight by other mechanisms. In a French study conducted in 1964, researchers vision-tested 36 people for their ability to adapt to light and dark both before and after taking bilberry anthocyanins. For several hours after supplementation, their eyesight improved significantly, although the effect wore off within 24 hours.17 A recent Japanese study found that people taking 50 mg, but not 20 mg, black currant anthocyanins adapted better to the dark and had less eye fatigue than those in the placebo group.18

Two recent tests on anthocyanins and vision have produced negative results. In 1999, Israeli researchers found that supplementation with 24 mg and 48 mg anthocyanins daily did not improve three measures of night vision: scotopic retinal threshold, dark adaptation rates, and mesoptic contrast sensitivity.19 Researchers in a NASA study found that using 40 mg bilberry anthocyanins had no effect in night vision, visual acuity, or contrast sensitivity compared with placebo.20.

There are two studies that seem to deny this though.

These enzymes are produced by http://www.novozymes.com/
Article on enzymes and Pectinex BE 3-L use with Black Currant Juice
Pushing enzymes to the limits
http://www.novozymes.com/cgi-bin/bvisapi.dll/biotimes/one_article.jsp?id=11392〈=en&t=b1


Edited by infinitedot (11/23/05 08:50 PM)


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OfflineFluxburn
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4971474 - 11/23/05 04:47 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Why don't you just get syrian rue seeds, grind up 5 grams of them and put them into 5 000 capsules and swallow it for your MAOI? Seems much easier. Good information though here.


--------------------
ABSTRACT ART (Mine) http://nathanbelomy.com


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Fluxburn]
    #4971510 - 11/23/05 05:39 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Read this: http://www.erowid.org/plants/syrian_rue/syrian_rue_info3.shtml

Nauseas, ~2X. vs. no nauseas ~10X. And yummmy. You choose.


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OfflineUnderhillmaster
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4972045 - 11/23/05 12:37 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

This is turning out to be interesting. Good work incubaby for trying first. Since you have never lemon/limed before, I would like to personally ask that you try that without black currant juice at a later time to have a comparison. I know that alone was enough to kick my butt the first time I did it. When we are talking about an increase of 3-10x, it can be difficult to judge correctly. You can't really say accurately that I am tripping 700% harder or 300% harder hehe. It is accepted that MAIOs can double the strength of a trip. The lemon method is still being investigated, but it seems to increase strength of a trip by 3-5x. When doing both, should the increases be multiplied or added? hehe. Added gives you 5-7x strength. Multiplied gives you 6-10x strength. This sub experiment is still in the very early stages, so a lot more work needs to be done. I would like to see someone use just black currant juice to see the effects of just that. Also, if you havent tried lemon/lime yet, I would like to ask that you try that first, before combining with black currant juice. So you can have an idea of what just lemon shrooms is like. Keep up the exploration and cooperation.


--------------------
If you cut off my head, what would I say? Me and my head, or me and my body?


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #4972060 - 11/23/05 12:44 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I would also really like to see more reports of the mushroom + black currant juice combination. I think taking those with the lemon juice just adds another variable, making it harder to say for certain whether or not the black currant juice increases effects.

I urge more experienced Shroomerites to try this method. I'm not sure when my next trip will be, but it probably wont be for a few weeks.

I think this is a pretty important discovery so I think this thread should be made a sticky while it's still under investigation.


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4973614 - 11/23/05 08:45 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Good points Underhillmaster and HeavyToilet

A work hypothesis might be that these are two different actions.

- Acidic juice turns psilocybin into psilocin, ready to be ingested. The potency of this might be 3X-5X.
- MAOI doubles the effect, hence 6X-10X.

Orange juice has been almost always considered a myth. Maybe its pH isn't enough acidic to help here, in order to break the bonding of Phosphate of psilocybin to turn it into psilocin, or it has worked for some people and not for others because of its highly variant range: 3.30-4.19

Orange juice - 3.30-4.19
Black Currants pH is ~2.7
Lemon juice - pH 2.00-2.60
Lime juice - pH 2.00-2.35

Black currant is quite acidic as well, so this might help too. If there is a certain pH level required, let's say, pH of 3.35, then nothing over that would help OR it might begin the reaction but it might need longer time. This might be the explanation why Orange Juice has sometimes worked for some people and some others not: it's varying pH.

If that was the case, maybe Black Currant juice alone would be enough, leaving the mushrooms soaking on BC juice during that 1 hour of waiting after having drank the BC and before ingestion of the mushrooms.

Just some ideas.


Edited by infinitedot (11/23/05 10:05 PM)


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Offlineshroompower
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: infinitedot]
    #4973723 - 11/23/05 09:31 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

anyone seen this visual before while halucinating? i am very keen to talk to anyone who has....pat_magrath@yahoo.com.au


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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: shroompower]
    #4974298 - 11/23/05 11:52 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

are you talking about the gears man?
did you post that in every thread?

anyways, well, as soon as johnny tallhat comes back around i will try both in absence of each other, a bit of a dry spell right now though, sad days when i can get acid by the bible but theres not a shroom to be found


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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OfflineSolutarch
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4974500 - 11/24/05 12:28 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

There is no reason to believe that anthocyanins or related substances will cause stronger visuals because they can enhance visual acuity. 'Visuals' from psychedelics are distortions in normal perception, not an enhancement.


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Solutarch]
    #4974941 - 11/24/05 02:08 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Solutarch said:
There is no reason to believe that anthocyanins or related substances will cause stronger visuals because they can enhance visual acuity. 'Visuals' from psychedelics are distortions in normal perception, not an enhancement.




Agreed partially. A distortion over an enhanced perception might be different than from the original perception. In any case, there seem to be 2 studies who agree on anthocyanins and 2 which deny it. It would be just an added bonus.


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OfflineSolutarch
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4975681 - 11/24/05 11:50 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

On a related note, licorice root is known to have MAOI activity. It has been used to enhance San Pedro's effects. Licorice is also an excellent sweetener (it's said that it's 50 times sweeter than sugar) and used to help mask the bad flavors of other herbs. I have ordered some black currant juice concentrate from Naturesflavors.com. I understand that straight black currant isn't as sweet as other fruit juices so I might sweeten it up with a little licorice.

**Edit** I have also read that ginger (besides being good for reducing nausea) can lower the threshold at which some drugs become active. There are medical warnings to this effect. It is believed that ginger does not potentiates drugs in the manner of a MAOI, but instead helps to increase absorption in the GI tract. I will be experimenting with Licorice, Black Currant, Ginger and Passion Flower Tea with tryptamines in the coming months.


Edited by Solutarch (11/24/05 12:13 PM)


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Solutarch]
    #4976835 - 11/24/05 06:11 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Solutarch said:
On a related note, licorice root is known to have MAOI activity. It has been used to enhance San Pedro's effects. Licorice is also an excellent sweetener (it's said that it's 50 times sweeter than sugar) and used to help mask the bad flavors of other herbs. I have ordered some black currant juice concentrate from Naturesflavors.com. I understand that straight black currant isn't as sweet as other fruit juices so I might sweeten it up with a little licorice.

**Edit** I have also read that ginger (besides being good for reducing nausea) can lower the threshold at which some drugs become active. There are medical warnings to this effect. It is believed that ginger does not potentiates drugs in the manner of a MAOI, but instead helps to increase absorption in the GI tract. I will be experimenting with Licorice, Black Currant, Ginger and Passion Flower Tea with tryptamines in the coming months.




Good info Solutarch.

Let us know about it.


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OfflineManninee
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4977176 - 11/24/05 07:57 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

You can buy black cherry extract in some health food shops - I noticed this has the same effect as black currants, lemon, lime, cranberry etc. Citrus bioflavonoid extract was very effective.
Stating blackcurrant is an MAOI is a load of crap - these fruits are active because of the flavonoids: Rutin , Querecetin, etc which inhibit the liver and gut cytochrome P450 enzymes. MAOI is a different thing altogether, and people who don't know what they are talking about should hold their tongues rather than spouting rubbish.
Try Harmala with shrooms and you'll know what I mean - just expressing an opinion about something you know nothing about because you've got nothing better to say is wasting everybody else's time.
I challenge anyone to give me a source of REAL EVIDENCE that blackcurrant interacts with MAO.


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OfflineUnderhillmaster
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: infinitedot]
    #4977194 - 11/24/05 08:02 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I have been giving this thread some thought lately and I just had an idea.  The most common thing I have read about being used for MAIO purposes is Syrian Rue.  This can have some side effects and intoxicating effects of its own.  The idea of fruits and especially fruit juices with MAIO effects is really appealing comparitevely.  Well, here is my idea.  Combine ground syrian rue with MAIO fruit juice(black currant) and let sit for 10 minutes :smile:  Drink this MAIO concoction about an 30-60 minutes before you take your lemon shroom drink.  Which leads into another idea.  Ok, we have 3 major things going on with this MAIO/lemon/shroom combination.  First is the MAIO effect.  Second would be the acidity pre-converting psylocybin into psylocin.  Thirdly, and I do believe this has an effect, is the stomach enzyme/bioflavinoid/absorption increase.  Ideally, to maximize the potential of shrooms, all three factors should be adjusted.  So in addition to pre-loading with MAIO, and combining your shrooms with lemon juice, one could also pre-load on stomach enzyme affecting juices.  Research is really skimpy on fruit juices and mushrooms combined lol, but I am thinking that grapefruit juice might be an excellent choice for this.  Possibly with some lemon juice mixed in.  So drink your black currant/rue mix about an hour before you dose.  Chase that with a big glass of grapefruit juice.  Wait an hour and drink your lemon/shroom mix.  This should obviously only be attempted responsibly as it could possibly get out of hand.  But the potential is quite amazing.  I have been shrooming for a long time, and now it seems like a whole new thing.  The mere possibility that you could take 2g and it feel like 20g makes taking too much very real.  So everyone be careful.


--------------------
If you cut off my head, what would I say? Me and my head, or me and my body?


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #4979078 - 11/25/05 05:07 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

"Consumption of black currants, lingonberries and bilberries increases serum quercetin concentrations"
European Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2003) 57, 37-42. doi:10.1038/sj.ejcn.1601513
http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v57/n1/abs/1601513a.html

"Quercetin and kaempferol have shown definite MAO activity"
http://sulcus.berkeley.edu/mcb/165_001/papers/manuscripts/_50.html


Edited by infinitedot (11/25/05 05:11 AM)


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OfflinePsiledehysp
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #4979265 - 11/25/05 08:10 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Underhillmaster said:
Combine ground syrian rue with MAIO fruit juice(black currant) and let sit for 10 minutes :smile:  Drink this MAIO concoction about an 30-60 minutes before you take your lemon shroom drink.  Which leads into another idea.  Ok, we have 3 major things going on with this MAIO/lemon/shroom combination.  First is the MAIO effect.  Second would be the acidity pre-converting psylocybin into psylocin.  Thirdly, and I do believe this has an effect, is the stomach enzyme/bioflavinoid/absorption increase.  Ideally, to maximize the potential of shrooms, all three factors should be adjusted.  So in addition to pre-loading with MAIO, and combining your shrooms with lemon juice, one could also pre-load on stomach enzyme affecting juices.  Research is really skimpy on fruit juices and mushrooms combined lol, but I am thinking that grapefruit juice might be an excellent choice for this.  Possibly with some lemon juice mixed in.  So drink your black currant/rue mix about an hour before you dose.  Chase that with a big glass of grapefruit juice.  Wait an hour and drink your lemon/shroom mix.





Also, adding some DMT should increase strength even further...      :wink:

j/k, this is very interesting and damn, after being able to trip when I wanted now I have no chance and cant try it... yet! But I sure will :smile:


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Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.
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Offlinepsychedelix
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Psiledehysp]
    #4979276 - 11/25/05 08:31 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Best black currant juices you'll find should be in Import Food stores, places that import stuff from Europe. I know juices made in south Europe tend have better natural sweetness quality. Don't buy concentrated juices, they're bad for your digestive system. Anything that is concentrated is bad, look for things that are 100% natural, make sure the ingredients don't contain chemical names you haven't heard of (possible preservatives). My dad is a Chiropractor and a nutritionist, and I know this for a fact, juices you can juice at home (with a juicer)are the safest thing. I'm pretty sure you can find a organic grocery store that carries black currants or the juice alone. Don't be fooled, Black Currant juice is not something to toy with even though it might seem like a berry, too much can cause kidney problems in some people who are prone do hereditary kidney problems.
Last note, KoolAid is not considered juice...


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Fluxburn]
    #4979293 - 11/25/05 08:45 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Fluxburn said:
Why don't you just get syrian rue seeds, grind up 5 grams of them and put them into 5 000 capsules and swallow it for your MAOI? Seems much easier. Good information though here.




well put.


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Invisibleinfinitedot
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: Hippie3]
    #4979372 - 11/25/05 10:15 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Simple. Syrian = nausea. BC = not.


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