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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: Rebirtha]
    #4760205 -

Has anyone ever tried soaking / mixing shroom powder with some vodka or something? Since alkaloids are also soluble in alcohol, and alcohol is readily absorbed in the stomach and intestine then shouldn't we see similar effects to the acid solution?, That is if the acid solution is what is responsible.

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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: Rebirtha]
    #4760273 -

Where does he say that he repeated Wiccan Seeker's experiment?

I only see him saying he took the mushrooms with ascorbic acid, or vitamin C. I don't see any mention of lemon juice, or even that he crushed up the mushrooms.

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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4760285 -

Both Wiccan Seeker and Annom used water and Ascorbic acid. Neither used lemon juice..maybe you were reading Wiccan Seeker's friends trip report that Wiccan Seeker posted.

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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: Rebirtha]
    #4760292 -

Huh.

Well that's weird. I wonder.

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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: Rebirtha]
    #4760322 -

Well, that certainly seemed to have thrown a wrench into a non-placebo explanation.

Maybe Annom did something slightly different than Wiccan Seeker. I guess we'll find out sooner or later.

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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4760366 -

Yes I am eager to hear Annom's full report.

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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #4760402 -

I may be able to try this on saturday night with about a gram of cubs. Took about a gram last weekend with subtle effects, may been slight less than a gram. My scale was crapping out on me:(


--------------------
The gnomes have found a new way to say hooooray.
How do you feel?

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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: Rebirtha]
    #4760455 -

don't under estimate the power of placebo. a few friends and i once bought what we thought to be a vile of lsd, later that night several people dropped some of the suppossed acid and many claimed to have felt lite/threshold effects. it was suspected that it might just be very weak in potency. upon later dosing the lsd turned out to be completely bunk. i personally ingested about 15-20 drops with absolutly no result where several people at an earlier time clamed to feel lite effects. the power of placebo is really very strong and is not to be dismissed.


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:goose:

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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: Dimmy]
    #4760489 -

It seems to me that the lemon/lime juices are only digesting the mushrooms so that when they get into the stomach it all goes into the blood stream at once. This creates a stronger, shorter trip.


--------------------
"Truth is more in the process than in the result."
- J. Krishnamurti




"We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived." Wei Wu Wei

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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: hot48yearolds]
    #4760500 -

hot48yearolds said:
It seems to me that the lemon/lime juices are only digesting the mushrooms so that when they get into the stomach it all goes into the blood stream at once. This creates a stronger, shorter trip.


replace "digesting" with "extracting psilocybin from" and i agree.  :cool:


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:goose:

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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: hot48yearolds]
    #4760555 -

hot48yearolds said:
It seems to me that the lemon/lime juices are only digesting the mushrooms so that when they get into the stomach it all goes into the blood stream at once. This creates a stronger, shorter trip.


exactly


--------------------
Stay Blue!

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Re: Theories for how this potentiation works [Re: JackTackle]
    #4760620 -

Well, I've seen some reports, and that's enough testing for me.  All that remains is to test it out myself.  Some questions though...

)Are people letting the shrooms soak in the juice, or are they just mixing them and taking it down as fast as they can?

)Are there any particular recomendations for a dose?  When a shroomery mod tells me to stay away from a 2 gram dose then I get a little unsure of how to proceed...

)I've always liked how shrooms distort time to make it seem like the trip lasts a lot longer than it really does.  When you dose this way does the shorter duration (for lemon juice anyway) acutally SEEM shorter at the time, or will the experience be rewarding enough by itself that I won't care?  :cool:

)Is there a particular ratio of juice to shroom powder that pepole like best?  I'd rather not drink a pint of raw lemon juice if I could at all avoid it. :lol:


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Battles of wits are impossible with the unarmed.

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Re: Theories for how this potentiation works [Re: WillieTomg]
    #4760664 -

what i've seen is people using about 1 or 2 fluid oz (double shot) of pure lemon/lime juice and ~1 gram

let the powder soak for a few minutes then slam it


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Stay Blue!

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Re: Theories for how this potentiation works [Re: JackTackle]
    #4760698 -

One last question:

I'd rather not go through a hardcore lvl 5 trip if I could at all avoid it. (unless I get a trip sitter between now and the weekend) Would members here advocate a lower dose in the range of 1g. I've never really broken through on shrooms without weed, which muddies your thoughts so that you tend to trip hard if you get in a thought loop. Advice anyone?


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Battles of wits are impossible with the unarmed.

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Re: Theories for how this potentiation works [Re: WillieTomg]
    #4760870 -

I would try 1/3 of your normal fun trip dosage. If it goes beyond your fun range, you should still be able to deal with it and will be able to verify how it works for you.

I am reading a lot of people talking about placebo effect. Anyone who tries this method now, will have some preconceptions going in. They will either be very skeptical or be somewhat tentative. As for the original post, I hadnt tripped for 4 months before I tried lemon/lime for the first time, and I was expecting a very near cranberry type high. It was a lot stronger than cranberry, and it was totally unexpected. The 'placebo' effect only really applies when the end result is near your preconceived ideas. That was the case for me. As for Wiccan, I really appreciate his getting the community involved, but I don't actually know anybody who posts here. I think he lives in Europe hehe, I live in Oklahoma.

As we get a larger body of experience to draw from, we might be able to isolate exactly whats happening, or that it only works for some people, or who knows. Let's try not to argue, but contribute opinions and observations for community research project.


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If you cut off my head, what would I say? Me and my head, or me and my body?

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Re: Theories for how this potentiation works [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #4760958 -

If someone had some equipment to test with it would be alot easier to figure out what is going on. Like get a shot with cranberry juice and a shot with lemon juice let mushrooms soak for 5 mins then test the amount of psilo present to see if the acidity affects how fast it is extracted. I dunno just shooting some ideas.


--------------------
yawn...
SG

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Re: Theories for how this potentiation works [Re: Stonerguy]
    #4761099 -

I honestly dont think anyone here is going to figure out the exact cause of the potentation, unless their willing to get a couple test groups and perform a double blind study, documenting with detail and consistency, which many of the members apparently have a hard time doing. Speculation is just turning into symantics.

Hell, its probably a mix of biflavinoids, vitamin C, liquid extraction and acidity, but the fact remains that juices like cranberry and grapefruit have much more of these properties than mere vitamin C or lemon juice. It would simply be illogical if lemon juice or vitamin C out performed these fruit juices. If you want to hit all the possible areas, go with the fruit juices.

BTW, has anyone tried this with red wine? The scientific PDF report posted in the 'bioflavinoid' thread said this is just as effective as grapefruit.

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Re: Theories for how this potentiation works [Re: yousuck]
    #4761828 -

Can someone do a blind study? Because I trust the "I took it and it was precisely 5 times stronger than a normal dose" reports about as far as I could throw King Kong.

Mix up 0.5, 1.0 and 1.5g and 2.0g of powdered mushrooms in lemon juice in different glasses, turn your back and have someone else hand a glass to you. If you can tell which glass you had 5 times out of 5 get back to us. Until then we're talking pure placebo.

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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: Rebirtha]
    #4762579 -

My, my, there are more people fighting the findings than doing the experimenting.

Also Wiccan_Seeker took .25 grams of mushrooms and said it felt like 1 gram. How does he know it didn't feel like .6 grams of mushrooms or .7?

Because of my 100 trips and 12 years of experience?
Because there is a divide at the experiential 8-10mg area beyond which the effects can become overwhelming, and they did?
Because I know the strength of said batch?

He seemed pretty excited throughout his trip diary.

Might this excitement be caused by actually tripping balls, like alleged?

You cannot state as a fact though that it was 5 times stronger. We are only human we cannot judge this to that accuracy.

I've stated 4-5x because that was as low as I could get my estimations. Humans with alot of experience in said dose range are better able to make the call than those theorizing.
Might it have been placebo? Yes. Is this likely? Very unlikely.

People: let's not debunk this before it is properly tested. Almost every test in this thread was clearly positive, yet all of them are surrounded by posts claiming it is placebo.

Why couldn't Annom's response (he'll report later on he said) be a placebo downplaying of effects? It dissents after all from the majority of tests.

Let's actually test this, and from our own experience arrive at a better understanding. Let's not conclude that the observations were in error because we can't think up an explanation how it would work. That's how the world remained flat for hundreds of years.


Quote:
BLIND TEST TO CONFIRM OR DENY THE ACID & LEMON HYPOTHESIS
.
3 capsules of 1gr powdered Ascorbic Acid or Lemon Extract*
3 capsules of 1gr powdered Sugar
2 capsules of 0.25gr powdered Cubensis or other amount (loose powder)
2 identical containers/baggies
.
--the subject has an empty stomach of at least 3 hours without food or drink
--the sugar & Ascorbic caps are put in a container each
--the subject looks away and mingles them so he loses track of which is which
--the subject, still looking away, opens one container, takes the three caps and slams them swiftly with 2 fl oz of water and walks off not looking at the containers left behind
--the subject waits 5min, then slams the 2 mushroom caps with 1 fl oz of water
--the subject trips and tries to assess whether he had potentiation (acid) or not (sugar)
--afterwards he opens the second container and tastes the powder of the caps left behind to see if his assessment was correct
.
* For Lemon extract evaporate 2 fl oz lemon juice to dryness and spray both the lemon powder and the sugar powder with the essential oilsd from squeezing the lemon peels. This way both powders will reek of lemon, and taste of it when burping, keeping the test a blind. Hesperidin (the bioflavonoid involved) and citric acid will both survive evaporating the lemon juice to dryness.



Well, if we can get several people to do this we have our blind test :laugh: If i can find the time I'll do it myself and hopefully get a friend to join me in testing.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: Rebirtha]
    #4762581 -

Quote:
Evan said:"The reason for the experiment was to test the hypothesis that acidity and acidity alone could cause such a potentiation. The outcome was a 5x increase in potency. There's a reason and proof."

There is no proof or reason in your experiment without further results. I am working with the facts, nothing more. When Annom repeated your experiment his results were completely different. Reading your posts from the beggining you sounded like you were very excited which makes me think placebo has effected your testing. I have experienced placebo's effects before and was suprised at the power they have! :lol: I do trust you in that you have had a lot of experience with the dose you took, but I also think placebo had its effects as well.


exactly, there is NO proof at all (yet)!

Annom had a nice trip ( :laugh: ) but didn't experiance any stronger effects. I'm pretty sure he didn't do anything wrong. :thumbup:

good luck everyone with all the testing :cool:

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