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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Letting go of the "need" to believe in free will...
    #4713316 - 09/26/05 11:26 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I've had enough of these "does free will exist?" threads... this is not one of them.

Free will obviously exists in SOME form, even if we mean it only as a subjective illusory concept. Free will exists as a concept in our minds, and since our subjective realities are fabricated by our mind and senses, free will only need exist in this form. It is manifested by our very thought of it.

We each live atleast part of our lives in our own self-constructed illusory "bubble" of free will. Free will is the very thought of choice... the very indecision and worry of a mind without rest.

It is both our protection and our prison. Outside the walls lurks fate.

To choose to live a faithful life is to choose to let go of the bubble and trust in fate. It's as simple as that, because the bubble is an illusion of our subjective reality in the first place... it is a little white lie we chose to believe in because it makes us feel safer.

By letting go of the illusory belief, we lose our supposed protection. so we feel vulnerable... but we also lose our prison, so we feel free.

So the real question is... will you let go of your NEED to believe you have free will?

Until we each do so, our bubble of free will continues to draw a line between ourselves and everything else. Free will is self-imposed isolation. Let go of obsessive attachment to the idea of being in control, and free will ceases exist.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?


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OfflineMJF
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Re: Letting go of the "need" to believe in free will... [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #4713372 - 09/26/05 11:48 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Letting go of the "need" to believe in free will... [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #4713423 - 09/26/05 12:06 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I think, free will sets us free :smile: It's no need, it's a given.

But perhaps, if you let this 'idea' go, your will become more free ?

Perhaps, not everybody is able to use his free will to its fullest, so it doesn't matter if he believes in it, or not.

Is believing a root for for its existence ? I think not, but I don't know, why some can't see it :grin:

At some age, your responsibility will fall back to your immanent free will, no other to blame.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
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"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Letting go of the "need" to believe in free will... [Re: MJF]
    #4713438 - 09/26/05 12:09 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

i am recently realizing how powerful my choices can be. I can directly choose a change in my attitude and has been working really well. I feel happier now.

I'm not one to believe in free will, but at the same time our choices have incredible impact. Our choices are determined by fate, but since we can't know our fate, it is prudent to put effort and mindfulness into our choices AS IF we had free will.

To believe in free will is to strengthen your fate. To rely soley on fate is to take power away from your choices.


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: Letting go of the "need" to believe in free will... [Re: MJF]
    #4713446 - 09/26/05 12:11 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Free will is starting the race... everything else finishes the race. On and on... It's weird cause we get to the top and then pit.

Damn, it started out in the right direction but oh well... I'm clicking Continue.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: Letting go of the "need" to believe in free will... [Re: dr0mni]
    #4713477 - 09/26/05 12:18 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Letting go of the idea of free will does not mean you become complacent and discontinue the use of the will....you simply learn to use it even better. Or not.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Letting go of the "need" to believe in free will... [Re: dr0mni]
    #4713534 - 09/26/05 12:33 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said:Our choices are determined by fate, but since we can't know our fate, it is prudent to put effort and mindfulness into our choices AS IF we had free will.




Great point, man... you're totally right on that one.

My post was written from a very mind-full perspective... I tend to be a blatant over-thinker. We try to stretch our free will too far... we think waaay more than we need to about just about everything. It gets to the point where we think so obsessively that we no longer stop trying to impose our will on our reality.

That was more the perspective I was writing from.

While both free will and fatalist points of view are beneficial, just the first step of letting go of the thinking mind is always the hard part for me.

Your post is a great elaboration thereof, because it moves the whole concept into a stance of balance... as usual, the middle way is the most beneficial to our well-being.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: Letting go of the "need" to believe in free will... [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #4713565 - 09/26/05 12:42 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I prefer the pendulum over the middle.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Letting go of the "need" to believe in free will... [Re: MJF]
    #4713628 - 09/26/05 12:55 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

with fractals you step back from the noise and at some resolution a gorgeous pattern forms.

billions of interactions contribute to the character of curves and shapes.

I notice that the fabric of my consciousness is full of layers upon layers of partial elements arizing and passing away below the threashold of thought and decision making.

what makes one element emerge more resonantly into an actual thought or clear image may have much to do with what is inside needing to come out, or with what is happenning outside prompting me for some response.

I know that I can work to create routines that I will be happy to express, (and I can work to avoid indulgences that I will not be very proud to show,) when triggered or prompted by the complexities of this continuously demanding world.

(as if there were really all that much distinction between what is outside prompting and what is inside burgeoning to emerge - so what is free will, what does it apply to if not a relative perspective at a distance from a part of the whole that is never quite separatefrom the whole)

it amounts more to lack of will or lazy will than to freedom of will, perhaps the laziness derives from the error of interpretation of freedom (separateness).


Edited by redgreenvines (09/26/05 01:01 PM)


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