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OfflineGomp
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Lies and Truth
    #3918635 - 03/15/05 12:21 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

A lie can only exist if it is believed, if no one believe in a lie, it goes away...
Truth however, can exist even if you believe in it or/and not?


:confused: :thumbup:

:sun:


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Invisibleblissedout
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: Gomp] * 1
    #3918648 - 03/15/05 12:24 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Truth is undeniable. :heart:


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: blissedout]
    #3918661 - 03/15/05 12:28 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Truth is subjective... undeniably.

A lie can only exist if it is denoted as such, much in the way a truth is likened to it's nature by the suggestion of it's existance. It may be forgoten... but as long as it persists... it exists.

If you don't believe in a truth... is that but another way to assert that it is a lie?

Example:

For instance if i were to say: George Bush is a humanitarian.

You call it a truth. And so it is true. If i don't believe it.. then it is a lie by my not believing it's true.

If I'm unaware of who the person in question is, and If I don't care. It matters not as far as my existance, but nonethless it is equally as valid for their is another stream of belief in regards to it.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Invisibleblissedout
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3918685 - 03/15/05 12:33 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

In the end, truth will prevail.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: blissedout]
    #3918694 - 03/15/05 12:35 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:lol: Describe this "truth" to me.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3918704 - 03/15/05 12:37 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

go for a walk... :wink:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3918717 - 03/15/05 12:40 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Truth is subjective... undeniably.

A lie can only exist if it is denoted as such, much in the way a truth is likened to it's nature by the suggestion of it's existance. It may be forgoten... but as long as it persists... it exists.

If you don't believe in a truth... is that but another way to assert that it is a lie?

Example:

For instance if i were to say: George Bush is a humanitarian.

You call it a truth. And so it is true. If i don't believe it.. then it is a lie by my not believing it's true.

If I'm unaware of who the person in question is, and If I don't care. It matters not as far as my existance, but nonethless it is equally as valid for their is another stream of belief in regards to it. 




this is all lies (unless someone believe in it), and you (truth?) wrote it(either you believe it or not)..

:wink:  he he  :heart:


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Edited by Gomp (03/15/05 12:48 AM)


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Invisibleblissedout
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3918729 - 03/15/05 12:43 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Even George Carlin, the father of cynicism has truths that he believes in without doubt. Truth is something that you know is unarguable. That is all.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: blissedout]
    #3918752 - 03/15/05 12:47 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I am ~ truth :smile: (as i don't go away if i stop believing in me) (and i honestly do not believe I am, he he )
the one thing you could newer leave behind, is yourself? (truth?):P


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Edited by Gomp (03/15/05 01:03 AM)


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: Gomp]
    #3918787 - 03/15/05 01:01 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:lol:  :thumbup:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3919223 - 03/15/05 02:57 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Double talking and confusing, not to EVER be considered "Truth".... 


Much love to you man....  :heart:  :sun:
Much love to all, In Jesus's name of course....  :grin:


ME....


:heartpump::heartpump:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3919275 - 03/15/05 03:10 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

It should ALSO be noted for an even more cut and DRY definition....


LIES = EVIL INTENTION of DECEPTION = NON-TRUTH = WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING = HATE = DEATH = WASTE = EVIL....


TRUTH = POSITIVE INTENTS = RIGHT = GOOD MORALS = SMILES = LIGHT = LAUGHING CHILDREN = FAMILY = HOME = LIFE = LOVE = GOD....


Of course, you would have to read two different books to find both of those meanings....  (I think)  :grin:

A fact is a fact, or as GOMP has taught me, an "AXIOM"....


ME....


:heartpump::heartpump:


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: Gomp]
    #3919293 - 03/15/05 03:15 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said: this is all lies (unless someone believe in it)




are you saying a piece of information is a lie until 'proven' true? reality, in its basic state, is a Lie, until apprehended by something in the position to judge its Truth?


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3919398 - 03/15/05 03:40 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i am saying..
A lie can only exist if it is believed, if no one believe in a lie, it goes away...
Truth however, can exist even if you believe in it or/and not?


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: Gomp]
    #3919420 - 03/15/05 03:45 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Gomp...

Yes.  :thumbup:

Hard to place concepts... in this format.

Say an applie = a lie.

Well if nobody believes apples exist doesn't mean it goes away, just means they do not question or give it relevance. The same for a truth.

(Just provided to give the intangible, some structure.)

A truth is unknown before it is discovered... doesn't mean it wasn't their... just wasn't found.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGomp
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3919448 - 03/15/05 03:50 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

""Well if nobody believes apples exist doesn't mean it goes away, just means they do not question or give it relevance. The same for a truth.""


the thing is, if you see that apple, you could cal it an apple, and i could call it a fruit..

we would both be correct as both are lies..
one need to believe it for it to be so..

but the 'fact' that what we call an apple or fruit is something you could hold in you hands, is indisputable, believing it is there or not, you will still hold it in your hand... (in silence just holding "a apple/a fruit" :P )
:wink:


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Edited by Gomp (03/15/05 03:56 AM)


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: Gomp]
    #3919479 - 03/15/05 04:00 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I provided something of material value for explanation :tongue: ... trust me, if you don't believe apples exist... you have better things to worry about then distinction between a truth and a lie.

Take the same concept about what I wrote about truth, apply it to a lie, add a dose of subjectivity and:  :thumbup: Yes.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGomp
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3919521 - 03/15/05 04:11 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

an apple is an apple (must be believed), not the thing it describes(doesn't matter if you belive it or not).. :P


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Edited by Gomp (03/15/05 04:20 AM)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: Gomp]
    #3919525 - 03/15/05 04:14 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

this is just a simple truth, and i see it is either to simple or not seen, or ignored etc, take it... :P


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Lies and Truth [Re: Gomp]
    #3919537 - 03/15/05 04:17 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I would like an apple, I am hungry....!


ME....


:heartpump::heartpump:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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