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 SofaJesus
journeyman
Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 69
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
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 Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth  [Re: frogsheath]
#600768 - 04/06/02 06:25 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Kinda like the soul is this endless void of nothing that contains everything
For some - "thing" to be infinite nothing (including the "thing") can exist in any shape or parameter.... like if someone says I have an infinite amount of pictures? That doesn't work cuz you can't think of a big line of pictures stretching along for infinity or just one giant picture? Or if someone says line up an infinite amount of beds(like on the cover of the Floyd album)
Once you get to the starting line and put down the first bed you?ve lost?. You would just be putting beds down for ever ? You would get lost in an endless loop?.
So I think in the end there is only one single thing and that?s 1 soul and its creating subjective dreams within itself? And about that endless loop thing ? I think that is an important piece to what existence really is --- The whole idea that we?re just vibrating energy and stuff? but you all know that shit ? we talk about the circle of life all the time? When you get that felling when you?re tripping or if you?re meditating, it?s that emotion, that overwhelming sense of all I can say right now is ?thank you? or ?of course? and you laugh a lot --- I think that?s you being shown the door --- I think the ?trick? is getting to that emotion when you are sober?.I should work on meditating?
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"...and to the left where up is down now stand a zebra made of shapes of me and silver and the sun so bring no guilt with you up above the flatline let's just hit the sky exploding into one." [ HUM ]
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SoulTech
Automated
Registered: 02/27/02
Posts: 86
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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 Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: SofaJesus]
#600800 - 04/06/02 06:50 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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>>So I think in the end there is only one single thing and that?s 1 soul and its creating subjective dreams within itself
That reminds me of a quote from a website that i really liked:
"God is an Ocean, You are a cup of water out of that Ocean"
Peace.
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 Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: SoulTech]
#601069 - 04/07/02 04:08 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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i am drunk.
but i think you are missing the point... okay both hands...homerow....
THERE IS NO ABSOLUTE=THERE IS NO SUPREME BEING known as God. God is a mindset that most are not aware of...
Or maybe I'm just some drunk sob ranting about shite that can't be understood anyways.....
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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WeirdShroomer
journeyman
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 78
Loc: Sebia
Last seen: 22 years, 8 months
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Sclorch]
#601167 - 04/07/02 07:13 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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How about this
Look at life as this picture. At first you see just one thing and nothing more.
But at closer look you see something more. And now you cant see SAME picture in same way ( newer again ).
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----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind
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SofaJesus
journeyman
Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 69
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: WeirdShroomer]
#601309 - 04/07/02 12:17 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thats a pretty cool picture -I see the other figures in it-- but what does it signify?
Is it supposed to represent a struggle between opposites in your mind, cuz everything going on is in the square around his head?
Do you have info on what the artist was trying to communicate, like whats the piece of paper at the bottom with words on it? When was it made?
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"...and to the left where up is down now stand a zebra made of shapes of me and silver and the sun so bring no guilt with you up above the flatline let's just hit the sky exploding into one." [ HUM ]
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WeirdShroomer
journeyman
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 78
Loc: Sebia
Last seen: 22 years, 8 months
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: SofaJesus]
#601342 - 04/07/02 01:19 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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You should go to google and type optical illusions.
They have tons of pictures like this....
I LOVE them all.
Search and you will find.
And what was in artists head... I can only guess, like you. ( but it look like strugle )
To me it was just example how life is very similar... everything is here around you you just need to look .
Sorry for not be so helpful
I guess I was again off topic..dough
"World isnt black&white
World isnt gray
World is in color"
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----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind
Edited by WeirdShroomer (04/07/02 02:29 PM)
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SoulTech
Automated
Registered: 02/27/02
Posts: 86
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Sclorch]
#601427 - 04/07/02 03:53 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I believe i know what your point is, although that doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it. I found your post intriguing and I appreciate new ideas and opinions, but it really is only an opinion. The only thing I have a firm belief in at this point is uncertainty. I have found that keeping an open mind promotes growth. I plan on growing a lot.
Peace.
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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 Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: WeirdShroomer]
#601428 - 04/07/02 03:54 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I can see it both ways, but i'm just clever. Or maybe it's something to do with cannabis relaxing the eyes. Could be. Who knows. I don't.
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cHeMiCaLbLuE
member
Registered: 04/07/02
Posts: 158
Last seen: 22 years, 8 months
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Sclorch]
#601488 - 04/07/02 05:09 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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how can you say there is no truth if you have not seen it, no its not a typo.
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insanity with a plan, a plan to stop exercising truth as compared to breathing thin air, but to experience truth as all there is to experience, for what do i not already have that exsists? All i can do is enjoy the ride.
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Anonymous
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Sclorch]
#601728 - 04/07/02 11:30 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I dont know... I'd say this is true
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Tannis
ZoneTrooper
Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
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 Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: skaMariaPastora]
#601961 - 04/08/02 07:06 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think that you can "walk in the ways of God" in this life if you don't require God to behave scientifically......approach it from a kind of wonder, or mysterious unexplained something....its how miracles are produced......we don't know how it works but it works. God and ultimate truth can be known in this light but its the hazey dream world light where we just can't seem to put our finger on it..........
If you expect to walk on water, at some point you will have to step out of the boat...
Then too, remember that many spiritual truths, can be experienced in different ways............if I need food the loaves can be multiplied, the shelter can pass out bread, the neighbor can give me bread, I can earn money to buy bread, I can find money to buy bread, or I can find bread, or bake bread...........
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: SoulTech]
#602374 - 04/08/02 04:20 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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The only thing I have a firm belief in at this point is uncertainty. I have found that keeping an open mind promotes growth.
Uncertainty, growth, openness, that's right.
That's what this is about.
As Nietzsche says in his preface to Ecce Homo:
"Hitherto the lie of the ideal has been the curse of reality; by means of it man's most basic instincts have become mendacious and false; so much so that those values have come to be worshipped which are most exactly antagonistic to the ones which would ensure man's prosperity, his future, and his great right to that future."
Absolutes encourage one to stop questioning. When that happens, the neurological pathways become fixed. This limits the mind substantially. For instance, how many people (much older than yourself) have you run into that were as open-minded as you? I've met less than a few. I know of a few more that are still living (until recently): Ken Kesey and Hunter S. Thompson- to name two contemporaries that I haven't met and most likely never will; their openness is quite apparent in their writing. What I am trying to show is that there is this sick tendency for people to permanently cling to a mindset. Thinking in absolutes (I think) is an almost sure way of reinforcing that tendency.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
Edited by Sclorch (04/08/02 10:04 PM)
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skaMariaPastora
Utopiate
Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 443
Loc: MA
Last seen: 21 years, 10 months
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Sclorch]
#602439 - 04/08/02 05:47 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Absolutes encourage one to stop questioning.
Very good point. Believing in anything is a closing up of the mind to new ideas. Entertain ideas, contemplate them, but never believe them as absolute truth because you have no idea what other information might be out there that you don't know.
Beliefs are dangerous.
Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead.
Believe in nothing...
(Tool)
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SoulTech
Automated
Registered: 02/27/02
Posts: 86
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Sclorch]
#602642 - 04/08/02 08:45 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Very true, I defineately agree with you. Although a truely open mind also has to entertain the possibility of an absolute truth existing. Otherwise its a limitation and would be the same thing you are preaching against just in a reverse fashion. Anything is possible or is it.
Peace.
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seeker
Curator ofBarbaricRefinery
Registered: 03/22/02
Posts: 128
Loc: between Here and There
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
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 Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Sclorch]
#602691 - 04/08/02 09:26 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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This is a stream of thought that I put down on paper while in class (highschool) the other day. (BTW I highly recommend trying this to anyone/everyone who has ever felt the urge to scream out at those around them be it to tell them to all go to hell, or that they're all a bunch of blind sock puppets, or both. It gives you the chance to examin your thoughts so when you do choose to say something it doesn't come out like rambling gibberish. Remember, no one likes to screamed at, though sometimes they need to be.)
[revolution is not a badword
revolution is a natural action brought about through random thoughts constantly searching for a better means with which to sustain life
revolution brings about destruction which leads to regrowth which is necessary to avoid stagnation
recollection avoids repetition and ecourages expirimentation
interaction discourages the trappings of masturbation
stand up; sit down
shout out; shut up
build; destroy
live; die
birth; kill
laugh; curse
fuck; fight
do something anything but do it
read; write
speak; listen
communicate
exchange information
ideas, thoughts, theories, beliefs, desires, dreams, ambitions, fears
take action even if it is to be inactive
turn on; turn off
tune in; tune out
look around know your world
understand that you may never understand
don't make plans make love
react, bend, flex, blow with the breeze, move with the tide
be prepared to be unprepared...]
I think most people could benifit from even a slight change in their perspective. They may not find some great revelation, but they might at least stop shiting on things that don't fit their picture. I don't know if this makes sense or whether this has any relevancy to the topic, but I know I had a point when I started it. Oh well, you all have interpritational skills, you figure it out, or not. As for me, I going to go plan a 4/20 teach-in/riot. Maybe it'll change somebody's outlook and maybe not.
(Don't take this too seriously. I'm sober and my judgement is impared)
BTW I would like to propose a moment of silent reflection on the late Ken Kesey and his life.
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"The first Prankster rule is that nothing lasts, and if you start there and really believe that nothing lasts you try to achieve nothing at all times." - Ken Kesey
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In a state of anarchy every individual is their own kingdom.
Thou art God (but so am i  )
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llib
journeyman
Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 129
Loc: florida
Last seen: 22 years, 3 months
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Revelation]
#731765 - 07/08/02 02:56 PM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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a contimuum of miracles that occur as revelations which brings oneself closer to the atonement and begins by destroyed alll true miscreations and false miscreations. the atonement, loss of spiritual essence of man, i.e. bible, eating the apple, representative of.......
will find oneness with godself
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: llib]
#732568 - 07/08/02 08:08 PM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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What the fuck are you talking about?
I really don't know where to begin with you. Your posts don't make enough sense to not hold water.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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LOBO
Vagabond
Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Sclorch]
#732794 - 07/09/02 02:21 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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You are stating yourself an absolute thruth now.
Make up your mind.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: LOBO]
#732898 - 07/09/02 04:31 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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You are stating yourself an absolute thruth now.
Make up your mind.
Thruth... oh, truth.
I think I made it clear that I didn't understand... doesn't sound universal to me. But it could be construed as that. That's probably due to the structure of language though. Most languages are black&white and treat concepts as absolute. For my denial of a universal absolute to make sense, it must be stated in such a way: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth. Also, you read my post as on/off, black/white, for/against... the words I wrote don't necessarily imply such an interpretation- hence, another easily seen language limit (this is not unique to English). Maybe when you read anything I post, you should incorporate the concept of probability into your interpretation. It's a continuum, not either/or.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: skaMariaPastora]
#732922 - 07/09/02 04:49 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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Without a lifetime spent in the continuous process of Realizing Truth, Realization (which comes by degrees, or spontaneously) will NOT occur at death. Death is not Liberation or transcendence. Death may certainly "occasion" a final transcendence in one who has practiced Realization throughout life by the elimination of all the psychophysical 'interference' that our mind-body presents to the Witness, or Spirit, or whomever you want to call our Transcendental Self - but death, qua death is not The Way.
It is much more likely that the process of dying to the physical body-self and world, will bring to the fore more subtle experiences that the average person has never become familiar with. Most people will become disoriented and frightened by these dreamlike or fantasmagoric inner scenes. The average materially-bound person who has never valued dreams, visions, psychedelic experiences, religious experiences, or altered states of any kind, will not know that [s]he was supposed to become familiar with these 'places' in preparation for the 'big trip' of death. The Heavens and Hells of Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, (and Judaism and Islam to a lesser degree of emphasis); the Bardos of Tibetan Buddhism; the Astral-Etheric-Causal Sheaths of classical Yoga; the simpler Ka and Ba souls of ancient Egyptian religion; and many other bodies of knowledge, all attest to domains which we must learn to navigate with a simple guiding principle (such as love/light) since our discursive minds will perish with the body. Hence the necessity of pure and simple faith: Christ - The Clear Light of the Void - Atman - The Six Syllable of the Great Mantra Om Mani Padma Hum - etcetera.
A lifetime is required to Realize - to make Real - an indivisible, simple, 'psychocosmic' 'beacon,' 'point,' or eternal frame of reference that in Reality indwells us, and endures our Earthly demise. This is our 'ferry' to 'the Other Shore. A life lived primarily for things material is going to result in quite a shock, at death. Whether such a person has chosen to ackowledge it or not, we are a tripartite being of body, mind and spirit. Let us neglect no part of us.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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