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 Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 There is no Universal, Absolute Truth 
#599209 - 04/05/02 01:13 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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I figured people need to understand this concept.
Readings: Anything by William James
Once again, there is no absolute... think of truth as an instrument of a rational mind. Do not waste your days searching for an infallible system of beliefs. With an unknowable, unspeakable truth, the focus of the ultimate is not on some tangible goal. Instead, the focus is on cognition and thought itself. Thus, there is no core set of unchanging, indubitable beliefs. The process of being a thinking, conscious entity never subsides for a moment and the mind is forced to persist in pondering this peculiar reality of existence.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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 frogsheath
Stranger
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Posts: 915
Loc: Chicago, Illinois U.S.A.
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 Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Sclorch]
#599355 - 04/05/02 05:53 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes. An open mind is not a good thing to waste.
Thanks Sclorch!
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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 Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Sclorch]
#599523 - 04/05/02 10:29 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Just because you haven't realized the ultimate truth doesn't mean it doesn't exist...
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frogsheath
Stranger
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 Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Revelation]
#599531 - 04/05/02 10:37 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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.... I'm with you Revelation ....
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skaMariaPastora
Utopiate
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Revelation]
#599588 - 04/05/02 11:52 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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But if he realized the ultimate truth and someone else realized a different ultimate truth who would decide which one is right? Truth exists in the minds of the people that believe it. Nature knows nothing of "true" and "false", only what is.
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Tannis
ZoneTrooper
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Loc: MD.USA
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 Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Sclorch]
#599589 - 04/05/02 11:52 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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"There is no reality, only perception."
------Dr. Phil McGraw PHD
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skaMariaPastora
Utopiate
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Loc: MA
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Tannis]
#599592 - 04/05/02 11:53 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Exactly
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SoulTech
Automated
Registered: 02/27/02
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 Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Sclorch]
#599603 - 04/05/02 12:06 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Are you saying that the fact there is no absolute truth, is the absolute truth?
Peace.
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Blastrid
e l e m e n t al i t y
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Posts: 3,323
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: SoulTech]
#599668 - 04/05/02 01:36 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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"Are you saying that the fact there is no absolute truth, is the absolute truth? "
how very... completely contradictory.
this topic itself is contradictory. if there is no truth or reality, only perception, then it depends on the perceiver what is true, thus if there even is an absolute truth. a truth could never be absolute, only individual specific, if reality is a perception of each individual. wooooahh i'm dizzy
_ry_
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Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
n. 3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'. Used as both an insult or an expletive.
ex. Blastrid!
Stereopattern <--My music.
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WeirdShroomer
journeyman
Registered: 04/01/02
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Loc: Sebia
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 Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Sclorch]
#599679 - 04/05/02 01:48 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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My opinion...just keep open mind and dont worry...eat shrooms
Have a happy day
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----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind
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SoulTech
Automated
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Blastrid]
#599727 - 04/05/02 02:24 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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"how very... completely contradictory."
Thats what I was thinking.
Is reality the perception of each individual?
I'm not sure but maybe in theory there are two levels of reality:
1.) Ultimate reality- unjudged pure state of existance. No bias, no "lens distortion", simple state of being, Enlightenment?
2.) Human's perception of Ultimate reality (as seen through human bias or "lens")- E.g. (Insert an opinion of reality here)
This contradicts itself because my discription/opinion of #1 or a possible Ultimate reality might actually be #2 or Human's perception of Ultimate reality.
I'm sorry I didn't get anywhere but its something to ponder.
Peace.
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SofaJesus
journeyman
Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 69
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: SoulTech]
#599740 - 04/05/02 02:39 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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I?ve always found it to be helpful in learning about life to always look at everything as some giant intertwined dichotomy?. It makes everything relative to who is doing the viewing... Then you cut out as many belief systems that cloud your mind and you start to give everyone their space and start to really see their viewpoint?.
This gets real sticky when you get to murders, child molesters, arrogant Christians or militant Nazi?s? If we all take our own paths because in the end no one, no matter how hard they try will never face life from the same direction then there cannot be one correct path? People will learn when they have done horrible things to each other
The only thing I can find is to be respectful of all people?s choices?
But of course a militant Islamic or a barking Christian will begin to tell you how you will be going to an eternal hell of damnation and fire?.
How burning in flames or being punished in Hell teaches you truth is beyond me seeing as how forcing submission out of you seems like a waste of time for a ?god?
?Believing in god is loving all there is to everything and the weird things they do;
What?s the justification for existence if you get punished if you get it wrong --- If something has the ability to create everything then why not make everyone do it over and over again till they get what life is all about --- and maybe in the end calling it a point is completely the wrong way to look at the meaning of life?
Believe anything you want, but just remeber I love all of you for who you are, not what you believe....
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"...and to the left where up is down now stand a zebra made of shapes of me and silver and the sun so bring no guilt with you up above the flatline let's just hit the sky exploding into one." [ HUM ]
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psilo25
The one stuck inthe middle ofthis hopelessmess.
Registered: 03/03/02
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: SofaJesus]
#599808 - 04/05/02 04:08 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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"Believing in god is loving all there is to everything and the weird things they do" -SofaJesusThanks for the great quote! I already wrote that one down in my notebook that I just started where I plan to write down as many good quotes as I can find  . In no way does it imply the existence of a supreme being such as that of most european and western theology (which I find to be somewhat foolish myself, but in no way do I mean any disrespect to those who do believe. If these beliefs make you happy, then all the more power to you.), yet it rather poetically sums up much of what I believe in.Thanks again
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Stand up for your freedoms, join the fight against the War on Drugs!
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Edited by psilo25 (04/05/02 05:40 PM)
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Tannis]
#599830 - 04/05/02 04:36 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's interesting that you post that. On a very revealing hashish "trip" last night I wrote down something very similar - "Reality is simply how we percieve it to be". Maybe that is the ultimate truth.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: SoulTech]
#599834 - 04/05/02 04:43 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, yeah... "Everything is relative" is an absolutist statement...
Ultimate truth is not realizable. It is like the Zen Buddhists say, "The Zen that can be spoken is not the true Zen." This unknowable factor of truth makes a universal absolute impossible.
So you can feel the rhythm of the truth, but you'll never be able to state it. You can only dance to it... A rhythm with a melody as indiscernible as those jukeboxes you might hear off in the distance on a crisp, windless night. It?s the dirty fractal edge of an ultimate knowledge that no being will ever have the privilege to comprehend. The universe is the unwritten LP of hope that the needle of consciousness creates with each new thought. May it never stop spinning.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Sclorch]
#599847 - 04/05/02 04:55 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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And only when we transcend into the realm of the absolute will we have realized.
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SofaJesus
journeyman
Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 69
Last seen: 20 years, 5 months
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: psilo25]
#599874 - 04/05/02 05:31 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Psilo you wrote, "In now way does it imply the existence of a supreme being such as that of most european and western theology (which I find to be somewhat foolish myself, but in no way do I mean any disrespect to those who do believe. If these beliefs make you happy, then all the more power to you."
That jumps out at me because of the disrespect aspect of it. It sums up everything that causes the worst problems in our world and creates the biggest divisions between our communications with one another -- its so hard sometimes to get around religious differences, even when your trying to be respectful of each other--
Again, I don't really think that there is a being that is God-- but if God had anything to say to us as beings im sure it would have to do with just getting rid of religions
If we're on this planet to life with one another and our greatest conflicts come from religion then get ride of it---- poeple may take that the wrong way but thats just the point---- Does God want us to stick to Dogmas or make our only Dogma compassion to all....... It just seems like the first person to throw out religion because of all its abuse would be God itself......
It's like the ultimate parent saying, "Well if its such a big problem then just stop..." and I think everytime you walk outside and see the beauty of natural and you start to realize just how "CrAzY" the universe is thats God saying give up all your disputes
-- I couldn't think of anything else then the word crazy --- just think of what atoms do all day long and how where all just atoms --- or basically just energy
Or like how your heart just beats all the time till you die -- Sure its natural -- buts its pretty fucking crazy to me -- It makes me laugh and just wanna shake "Gods hand" -- as if God was always laughing just waiting for us to catch up to him,,,,,,,
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"...and to the left where up is down now stand a zebra made of shapes of me and silver and the sun so bring no guilt with you up above the flatline let's just hit the sky exploding into one." [ HUM ]
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psilo25
The one stuck inthe middle ofthis hopelessmess.
Registered: 03/03/02
Posts: 244
Loc: over here
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: SofaJesus]
#599914 - 04/05/02 06:05 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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The absolute truth to our lives here on earth is that we, as the human race (and planet earth in general) are but a small, insignificant spec in all of space and time. We are but a brief momentary flash, a mere fluke in the flow of energy in the universe. Because that is essentially what we are, a part of an infinite flow of energy. In our little corner of the universe, the energy gathered so as to create our sun, and a mass with such a perfect distance from this sun that this energy was able to manifest itself as life. The odds are astronomical that this could ever happen, and we are truly blessed with this gift, even if no "body" gave this gift to us, it just happened as a result of energies gathering so perfectly so as to create life. When this life is over, this energy once again becomes a part of this flow. This implies that there is no conscious afterlife whatsoever. This would mean that when we die, our consciousness is erased forever. Many could percieve this as saying that life is meaningless, and there is no hope of any kind, so why should we live? Sure, maybe this life IS meaningless, especially considering that in the continued existence of the universe, earth will have very little influence on the flow of energy. But I prefer to look at it under a different light. Life is such an incredibly rare occurence in the universe, and we have been the fortunate recipients of this rarity. And since this is the only chance at life we have, and we will not live on after our bodies die, we need to live this life to its fullest potential. We need to love "all there is to everything and the weird things they do." We need to enjoy this life above all, since its the only one we will EVER have. Why worry about such petty things as money, jobs, cars, (material posessions in general), religion, etc. Why worry so much about every little obstacle you encounter in life? Just enjoy it, go with the flow, do whatever it is you need to enjoy this life (keeping respect for others in mind, of course), because this is your ONLY chance. ENJOY IT AND FULFILL IT ANYWAY YOU CAN.
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Stand up for your freedoms, join the fight against the War on Drugs!
www.drcnet.org
www.drugpolicyalliance.org
www.drugsense.org
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: psilo25]
#599936 - 04/05/02 06:27 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Although I like your outlook on life, it is not absolute.
Nietzsche said that life is suffering and that we should revel in the suffering. It worked for him, so I can't really knock it. Thus, life does not have to be a joyous thing and for many people such joy is rarely experienced. I cannot tell these people that they are wrong for not rejoicing as bombs rain down from the sky and vaporize their mud-wall domiciles.
Be a hetero-absolutist and be right... well, rightER than everyone else.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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frogsheath
Stranger
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Loc: Chicago, Illinois U.S.A.
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Re: There is no Universal, Absolute Truth [Re: Sclorch]
#599951 - 04/05/02 06:43 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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" Today, ideas, and gurus, flash quickly through human consciousness,
raising the questions: What is true? What is real? An answer springs forth from the confusion: Everything is True, and Nothing is True. --Joy Whitney (Starlink:
The Book of knowledge of Anton, Communique from the Pleiades)
I found this paperback, and always found it silly, yet some of it pretty cool.
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