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OfflineLearyfan
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From Conversations with God, book 2
    #351941 - 06/30/01 01:18 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

"There are those who would make me a jealous God; but who could be jealous when one has, and is, everything?

There are those who would make me a wrathful God; but what could cause me to be angry when I can not be hurt or damaged in any way?

There are those who would make me a vengeful God; but on whom would I take vengence, since all that exists is me?

And why would I punish myself for creating? Or, if you must think of us as separate, why would I create you, give you the power to create, give you the freedom of choice to create what you wish to experience, then punish you forever for making the "wrong" choice?

I tell you this, I would not do such a thing."

"Where do you draw the line?"


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Offlinedavidgergen
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Re: From Conversations with God, book 2 [Re: Learyfan]
    #352071 - 06/30/01 07:34 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

i like the vision of god in eraserhead. at least, i take it that the guy at the beginning with the scarred face who is pulling the sparking switch is lynch's vision of god... a demented god... (then eraserhead is born... comin' through the hairy hole; i wonder what THAT symbolizes?). sorry, a little off-topic. but, imho, the foregoing quote reflects an idea of god -- a projected hippie-liberal ideal of god. the god of "conversations," however, is not the god who allows children and the elderly to die slow painful deaths from cancer and other diseases, or the god who permits the existence of adolf hitler. in other words, the god of that quote is not the god of this world. the god of this world - if there is one - is something entirely different.



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Offline'Pulse
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Re: From Conversations with God, book 2 [Re: Learyfan]
    #352553 - 07/01/01 06:11 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I read the first Conversations with God book and it was awesome, I plan on reading another one soon, but I think i might skip to the third book, b/c that talks about how the universe and everything was started.

Edited by 'Pulse on 07/01/01 06:13 PM.



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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: From Conversations with God, book 2 [Re: davidgergen]
    #352597 - 07/01/01 08:37 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

"Hitler went to heaven" is a quote from Coverstations with God. You'd have to read the book to really understand that, but the fact is, is that there is nothing intrisicly "wrong" in this world. A thing is just a thing.

God let's Hitler happen because he gave us TOTAL freedom. If he were to intervene and stop that from happening, it would defeat the purpose of living, which is to decide who we are. Hitler HAD to happen so that we could say "Ok, THAT'S NOT us"

Read that book. It makes me trip.

"Where do you draw the line?"


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Offlinedavidgergen
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Re: From Conversations with God, book 2 [Re: Learyfan]
    #352647 - 07/01/01 10:22 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I dunno. I think some things are intrinsically evil. For instance, mass murder, torture, etc. It sounds like the authors of that book are trying to finesse the problem of evil without really addressing it -- by just saying, in effect, oh, that's not a problem, there is no evil.



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OfflineNagual
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Re: From Conversations with God, book 2 [Re: Learyfan]
    #352650 - 07/01/01 10:26 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

"There are those who would make me a jealous God; but who could be jealous when
  one has, and is, everything?

I like this, even though its kinda dual, hes saying that deficiency cannot exist when you
exist right here right now, since anything that could be desired is part of this space/time

There are those who would make me a wrathful God; but what could cause me to be
  angry when I can not be hurt or damaged in any way?

Hmm.. A being that is composed of all things, is beyond the limited view of
the organic individual
:tongue:
There are those who would make me a vengeful God; but on whom would I take
  vengence, since all that exists is me?

Being a part of everything one is beyond conflict
And why would I punish myself for creating? Or, if you must think of us as separate,
  why would I create you, give you the power to create, give you the freedom of
  choice to create what you wish to experience, then punish you forever for making
  the "wrong" choice?

Universe belongs to/is universe, each and all
I tell you this, I would not do such a thing."
The Christian god finds the true Tao.. cool concept.:)



....___^___
...(_______)
........|.|Free
...__ /../..Spore
...|__ / ......Ring


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.....___^___
....(_______)
........|...|Free
...__ /.../..Spore
...|___ / .....Ring


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: From Conversations with God, book 2 [Re: davidgergen]
    #353602 - 07/12/01 11:39 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

davidgergen, I might not be able to explain this myself, but i'll try.

"Wrong" is only our opinion of a thing. You and I think that murder is wrong, BUT here's why murder isn't intrisically wrong.

If someone breaks in your house, and trys to kill your family. It might not be a bad thing to kill that person. If you're in a war, killing for your country is considered good.

So if murder CAN be good, if there's any exception to the rule, then there IS no rule, because then who is to say where you draw the line on when murder is good or bad.

I AM NOT condoning murder. When you realize that we ARE LOVE, then you'll understand that going in a loving direction will ultimatly be the only thing that works. God just let's us find out what works best for us.

In reality, we cannot be killed. You can cause someone to change form, and that is all.

We are love, but for us to EXPERIENCE ourselves as love, we(God) had to create the opposite of us, or at least the illusion of it.

Without the POSSIBILITY of hate, there can be no love.

Did that make sense?




"Where do you draw the line?"


--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: Park Avenue Playground - The Trip



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InvisibleKid
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Re: From Conversations with God, book 2 [Re: Learyfan]
    #353638 - 07/12/01 12:49 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

> "Wrong" is only our opinion of a thing.

Wrong is supposed to denote an absolute. Right is a value of Truth. If something is Right then it is correct and it cannot be false. If something is Wrong then it cannot be True, and is not Right.
It's universal on this planet (with, ahem, the rare exceptions) to consider murder as wrong. I see it as neither wrong nor right. Fewer would probably say that murder is right.
Murder is considered the unjustified killing of a human being. The word unjust acts as a piece of criteria for what murder is: if murder is unjustified, then how can it be right? If it is not right, then it must be wrong. (my morality works along the lines of I cannot Know what is justifiable, but we won't go along that tangent)

When you kill someone in self-defense, this is justifiable, and in consequence is not considered murder. This is self-defence; the killing of a human to protect one's own life. Justifiable homicide is not murder. Murder is unjustifiable homicide.
Killing for one's country brings in even deeper ethical aspects. Can one be justified in killing another person because they belong to a different country? Because that country pushes different religious, ethical, philosophical (etc.) beliefs? Is it only okay when that country is committing murder itself and intervention with deadly force is warranted?

So it's not that MURDER can be considered good or right. Homicide, the killing of a human being, can be considered good or right. It is not an exception to the rule; it's a redifining of a rule with an understanding of new ethical situations.

I think it's very interesting that our world has such a deep rift about the killing of people. It's understandable of course for we all have our own lives, and imagining someone killing us (ourselves) we'd feel inclined to say, "That's Wrong." We all have one life to live. There's one part of our culture(s) that says, "Thou Shalt Not Kill."
Yet, there's a whole other part that is just as instinctive. If someone were about to kill you, it's entirely in the realm of possibility that you'd end up killing them to save your own life. Would you feel bad about it? Certainly not at the time of the actual killing (for it means your whole life, all you have). But what about afterwards? Perhaps you'd feel a bit remorseful and wonder what you *could* have done. In the end though, the fact still remains there are two strong convictions that contradict each other in the human psyche:

Thou shalt not kill vs. Thou does not want to die
in other words, it's really a battle between the sanctity of human life versus the sanctity of your own life.



okay, I've come to realize that this whole thread probably isn't about murder. So, moving on.

> In reality, we cannot be killed. You can cause someone to change form, and that is all.

Or perhaps, in reality we cannot exist. People with severe forms of Korsakov's syndrome have no internal narrative. No sense of themselves. Maybe our own life stories are made up? Maybe we are (to use the line from Gladiator), just shadows and dust...

> Did that make sense?

Yes, you made sense, else I'd've not replied.



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