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OfflineViaggio
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Registered: 07/05/03
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Unfortunate Events...
    #3357610 - 11/13/04 11:23 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

I believe God is the core and absolute essence of everything. The reason anything happens (or doesn't happen) is because it was God's will. I've often wondered why God's will would include bad things to happen, and have decided that perhaps...misfortune allows us to define our blessings.

Comments? Criticism?


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
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Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: Viaggio]
    #3358098 - 11/14/04 01:48 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

I think the creator didn't want his creations to be robots (where's the fun in that?) so he gave us free will. And that automatically creates the possibility of wrong doing.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: Viaggio]
    #3358129 - 11/14/04 01:55 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

It is the egoic-seperation from God that gives rise to the feeling of being an isolated fragment in a hostile universe that leads to such violence and insanity. That's why it has been said that the ego is in a constant warfare with God.
Nobody consciously chooses violence and insanity.

Out of curiousity, do you believe in God in the Anthropomorphic sense, or Panthiestic sense, or otherwise?



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3359846 - 11/14/04 02:31 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

"god is a girl"
-Groove coverage

:P

""bad things to happen""

or/and Things happen,.. wheter they are good and/or bad is if so desided by the observer?

:confused: :thumbup:


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Disclaimer!?


Edited by Gomp (11/14/04 02:33 PM)


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OfflineJ4S0N
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Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: Gomp]
    #3360150 - 11/14/04 03:51 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Perhaps the god is beyond judgement. When you see the 'whole' all things appear equal perhaps. So maybe our interpretation of something being 'bad' is just the result of ignorance. How can we judge gods will?


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"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: J4S0N]
    #3360180 - 11/14/04 04:00 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

How can we judge, whiteout judging ourselves?

:confused: :thumbup:


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Disclaimer!?


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OfflineRedEyeSamurai
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Registered: 10/20/04
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Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: Gomp]
    #3361019 - 11/14/04 07:25 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

yeah, what gomp said because, 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'.

Positive thoughts, not positive actions. actions are actions

If everything were always good from the start, would something not quite as good be bad?

PS Gomp- disclaimer=lol


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: RedEyeSamurai]
    #3361176 - 11/14/04 07:56 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

good/evil are subjective labels and have no bearing objectively for 'god'

god is the center, but everything is the center, as everything is god.

will does not exist, except as a concept our minds developed about themselves.


if there is no bad
then that answers
"Why does God allow bad things to happen"

:smile:


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Offlineskystone
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Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: J4S0N]
    #3361245 - 11/14/04 08:18 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

J4S0N said:
Perhaps the god is beyond judgement. When you see the 'whole' all things appear equal perhaps. So maybe our interpretation of something being 'bad' is just the result of ignorance. How can we judge gods will?




I second that. If we could all read each others minds there would be no emotion of anger or hate. Anger and hate comes from lack of understanding. So if we take that god is something that is in essence of everything, including us, then he can not judge us.
It's like us having cancer. You don't blaim your organ for having cancer, you don't blaim anyone, you just try to cure it.

And besides, there is no true sin. A true sin would be a happy, healthy, enlightened man killing people around. And I don't think that is possible.


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"..and suddenly it began to rain"


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OfflinePed
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Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: skystone]
    #3361423 - 11/14/04 08:55 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

I think the mistake here is in conceiving of God as an ego-conciousness with a centered sense of self like our own, that God's will would be something comparable to our own in terms of how we go about making decisions and manifesting our wishes. To maintain this concept of "God", as though "God" were a name attached to an independent entity, we must simultaneously conceive of ourselves in the same way, and in doing so we create a conceptual gap between ourself and the rest of existence. When we do this, we generate a proportionate gap between how we perceive things and how things actually are. We enter into a kind of pervasive ignorance, and therefore establish the potential for the experience of suffering.

Misfortune appears to us when our desires are frustrated, or when our basic needs are not met. We are able to conceive of "bad things" happening only in the context of what it is our self wants or needs. If we're able to conceive of ourselves in total harmony with God, that God's essence permeates our being as absolutely as it does the rest of existence, we are no longer able to find a discrepancy between what happens and what we need or desire. If we can accomplish this, we close the conceptual gap between our self and God and uproot the potential for suffering.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: Ped]
    #3362017 - 11/14/04 11:50 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

my belief is that nothing can be percieved without its opposite (this is the essence of the theory of relativity) nothing can occur without this dualistic structure of reality. an apple cannot fall without a down and down cannot exist without up. You cannot percieve darkness unless something called light also exists.

You cannot be happy without sadness.

thus for life to exist, it must always contain both sides of something. therefore bad events are just as nescessary to our happiness as good events, as without bad we could not have good. We wouldnt apreciate anything unless we had first lacked it.


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Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflinePeyoteZen
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Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3362741 - 11/15/04 04:51 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Why do bad things happen?
I dunno, I think its part of the learning proccess.

And also, we live in an infinite universe, so why should'nt the "bad" be included as well :wink:


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ISLAMIC MIGRANT CRIME WAVE COMING TO A GRANNSKAP NEAR YOU!


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Offlinea_h_w
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Registered: 10/13/04
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Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #3362915 - 11/15/04 07:42 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

"in the late afternoon of Summer days, sometimes,
though there is no breeze whatsoever, it seems
to blow, for a moment, a soft breeze...

but the trees remain still
in every leave of its leaves
and our senses had an illusion,
they had the illusion of what would please them...

ah, the senses, the sick that see and listen!
were we all as we're supposed to be
and we wouldn't have the need for illusion...
it would be sufficient to feel with clarity and life
and not even notice what the senses are for...

but thanks god there is imperfection in the world
because imperfection is a thing,
and to have people that make mistakes is original,
and to have sick people makes the world funny.
if there was no imperfection, there would be one thing less,
and there must be many things,
so that we have much to see and listen..."

alberto caeiro, "the flock tender" *free* translation from portuguese


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3363179 - 11/15/04 10:50 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
thus for life to exist, it must always contain both sides of something. therefore bad events are just as nescessary to our happiness as good events, as without bad we could not have good. We wouldnt apreciate anything unless we had first lacked it.




It doesn't necessarily require the containment of equal, opposite sides of something, merely the illusion of said duality.

This is the problem with the mind. The entire "good/bad" duality is an illusion, and when it is transcended, it doesn't hold any power over defining our experiences. I do not think that it is necessary for appreciation to exist only because lack of what is to be appreciated was there. If every experience was perceived exactly as it is, instead of being shaped, toned, and colored by our categorization, judgements, comparisons, and definitions, everything would be appreciated for what it is. It only takes a lack to bring appreciation of something when one is ignorant and seperated from the moment and being (you don't know what you have until its gone).

If the mind wasn't seperating us from our being in the first place, we wouldn't experience this dilemna, this duality, we'd be full of complete, whole, in the moment peace every second.

Duality is an illusion from the most unobstructed perspective. The unified yin and yang. The Way, Tao.  :mushroom2:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: Viaggio]
    #3363265 - 11/15/04 11:31 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

"".


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Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (11/21/04 05:58 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: Viaggio]
    #3363305 - 11/15/04 11:51 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Viaggio said:
I believe God is the core and absolute essence of everything.  The reason anything happens (or doesn't happen) is because it was God's will.  I've often wondered why God's will would include bad things to happen, and have decided that perhaps...misfortune allows us to define our blessings.

Comments?  Criticism?




God having a will contradicts the notion of God.

God obviously does not define experiences and situations beyond their being. God is not the ultimate ego. "Bad" things? "Good" things?! :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: Viaggio]
    #3363335 - 11/15/04 12:00 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

To Love, is to make a choice. God created us to give him Love in return for his love. Had he made us robots, as it was already said, then God would have no Love shared.

We suffer from bad things because this is the only way to choose the good.

Without hate there is no Love. That is why God aloud the bad in this world. So we can make a choice.

Love is a choice. That is why the rewards of being good as so great. The rewards of being bad are also great. Equal and almost the same.

Negative needs positive. Positive needs negative. One cannot exist without the other.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3363381 - 11/15/04 12:12 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

God created us to give him Hate in return for his Hate. Had he made us robots, as it was already said, then God would have no Hate shared.

We suffer from good things because this is the only way to choose the bad.

Without love there is no Hate. That is why God allowed the good in this world. So we can make a choice.

Hate is a choice. That is why the rewards of being hate as so great. The rewards of being good are also great. Equal and almost the same.

Positive needs negative. Negative needs positive. The other cannot exist without one.



















How do YOU know God's preference? Why does it have to be both so that one can be favored and chosen? That doesn't make sense. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
Being.
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Registered: 06/10/03
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Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3363420 - 11/15/04 12:24 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Bingo. Glad someone said what I was thinking.. I wasn't prepared to open this can of worms with someone who believes in the concept of "god's will" in the first place.


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Unfortunate Events... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3363428 - 11/15/04 12:28 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Not bad or good...just opposite.


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